Trading mortgages for commutes
Several years ago one of my colleagues bought a place out in Sooke. When I asked why, she said it was significantly cheaper than what could be had in Langford at the time. After that she modified her hours so that she could keep that commute closer to 1 hour instead of the over 90 minutes it was taking during rush hour.
Later on another colleague bought a place in Duncan with a similar 1 – 1.5 hour commuting time, and I am hearing more stories from tech companies where employees are asking for flexible hours to accommodate their growing commute from housing affordability to employment.
But does that make sense? Is it worth trading a longer commute for cheaper housing? And how much cheaper does the house have to be to make it worth it? Personally I am allergic to commuting by car on principle (given it makes you less healthy, more depressed, and less productive) but I want to focus on the monetary costs involved.
To get there, first we have to estimate the cost of all that driving. There are two parts to that: the hard costs which are relatively predictable, and the soft costs which really depend on whether you think you should be compensated for the time spent.
There are lots of estimates of the hard costs of driving out there. According to the CAA, owning a new crossover and driving it 20,000km per year will cost you about 50 cents/km (largely from depreciation and insurance). A simple way to estimate commute cost is to just multiply that by the distance, but that only works if the commute is going to require a whole new car. If you are going to own the same number of cars regardless of the length of your commute, then you want to know the marginal cost of driving since you’ll be paying most of the depreciation and insurance regardless of how far you drive. Based on the same CAA model that works out to about 18 cents/km.
So if you are buying in Sooke and work downtown, you better expect a house there to be up to $160,000 cheaper than the equivalent house within walking distance just to compensate for the hard driving costs. That’s not even considering the time cost of that distance. Unless you enjoy commuting, you will want to add a per hour cost to the vehicle cost which will inflate the house premium substantially. In fact if you expect to be paid $30/hour the costs of that commute from Sooke would pay for an extra half a million in house price in town!
Here’s a simple calculator that will estimate how much more house you could buy if you lived closer. How much do you value living close to work?
If I lived within walking distance to work I
My commuting time is worth
Wondering about
https://www.rew.ca/properties/391044/1336-gladstone-avenue-victoria-bc
It’s already gone down in price – a fair bit – but has been sitting on the market for quite some time. Am new to Victoria and realize that Fernwood is not a high price location relative to other neighbourhoods but still… I am currently renting in Fernwood and it seems quite lovely to me. Is there something I’m missing? Or is it the house itself that is the problem?
I think both Lee Avenue houses should be in the mid 900,000 range with house 2 being more.
I have been in house 1 and it is okay but nothing special.
Definitely should not be over one million. I will be curious to see what they go for.
@ Asian and Chinese speculation in RE.
Very simple to solve. There is lots of private wealth generated over the last 30 years in China. The top quartile of the population operate PRIVATE businesses that literally generate millions of dollars in profit annually.
However, because the Chinese are not generally allowed to invest in overseas stock markets or financial instruments, the only options available are RE and Commodities (e.g. gold). The rationale is that they do not want to add to the dollar-denominated hegemony that is the foundation of the world financial system. Why would they? The credit worthiness of G7 investments are poor to piss poor.
This year oil futures + a agricultural futures + other commodity futures + Links to the HKSE are being put in place. What does this mean? Billions of dollars will be attracted to these asset classes. Taking less slack off the RE market. As time goes one, my guess is the next decade or so, there will be a deliberate and systemic liquidation of oversea assets as more investment options open up in Asia. The only people that will own overseas are people who will really want to live in Canada and not see it as investment opportunity.
@Andy7
The Chinese government DOESN’T want to own RE in Canada or any other country. Anbang was a quasi insurance company that raised funds like Fortress in Canada and then deployed their funds amongst other things into RE all over the world. The government only took over the companies because their debt/asset ratio was too high and it was going to default on payments, all of which is owed to local mom and pops that were fleeced. The CEO is now in jail for 20 years for his actions.
They would like an orderly exit from these RE investments, but they were purchased at peak and premium prices. Thus not enough to pay off the investors, so the only plausible exit is when they can get their money back or if ever.
If you compare the tax collection efficiency of a nation, China’s would rank in the Top 5. They don’t catch people on income taxes or corporate profit taxes, as there are millions of deductions. How do they tax you? Very simple, they add a VAT of 17% to 25% embedded on EVERYTHING. So imagine a supply chain to furniture
1/ logs + 17%
2/ lumber sold to manufacturers + 17%
3/ components + 17%
4/ materials to make components + 17%
5/ labour + 17%
6/ finished products + 17%
Very few deductions on the VAT (e.g no GST rebate) but if you work your way through the system, the amount they collect is scary. Too hard to track income, but when you charge a consumption tax like the above, you catch everyone, so tax cheats are far and few between.
@Barrister
I would imagine you’d have to have Chinese ties for this to apply? I can’t see the average Canadian who has no links to China having their info shared. Yes, I know there’s always risk, but there’s risk with online banking, using facebook etc as well. Considering Canada already does this with 61 other countries apparently, I’m not too worried. I think end of the day, it will help to nix some of the rampant abuse that’s been occurring; help level the playing field.
What scares me significantly more is the unregulated purchase of our real estate, and how much of that now belongs in the Chinese governments hands, thanks to Anbang and our unregulated market.
Matthew
I much prefer house 2. Bigger house, better layout, more bathrooms, nicer finishing, bigger lot. Looks like it’s definitely worth more. The finishing alone shows it’s worth more (much higher end kitchen and bathrooms). $300K more? I don’t know about that, but the market will decide. I’d definitely pay at least 100K more for house 2. You’d easily spend 6-figures trying to emulate house 2 in house 1.
I also prefer house 2’s exterior. House 1 looks like the rundown houses on bay street near Shelbourne (actually a lot of places in Fernwood).
It’s amazing either of those is “worth” anywhere near the asking prices.
lol.. woooooo. Near Oak Bay.. yay. I mean, actually it’s Victoria.. but it’s really close to Oak Bay. Definitely worth the premium so I can rub up against that tweed curtain.
@Matthew and @Grace
You got my curiosity up on the Lee Avenue houses. 1748 is definitely worth more because of the larger lot and larger house size (2890 vs. 2324 sq.ft.). It also looks to have some higher-end recent renovations. I think this why they are asking more, although it is definitely too much more.
BC assessments are $1.04M for 1748 and $945K for 1754 (sold in 2015 for $720K). I don’t know values in that area too well, but I would rather have what $1M can buy you in Gordon Head.
Checked West Van. 8 out of 14 homes or 57% of homes listed last Friday are flips (the majority not reno’d).
Of those 8, all were sold between 2015-2017, re-listed for 300k -1.2M more now. Considering the West Van market is in the toilet, I’m curious to see if they’ll sell and what they’ll sell for.
And people wonder why the real estate market is a mess…
Do you really want the Chinese government to have all your tax information?
@Local Fool
This is good news. Not sure the feds will do much with this info, but I could see China making good use of it. Hopefully the BC govt will have access to this info, as I do think they’d use it wisely. Will be interesting to see how this affects areas like West Van. And I think we’ll be surprised at how much ‘funny money’ is in Vic as well.
Hi Grace:
My thoughts on the two Lee Avenue properties which you say have been on the market for some time (in other words, both of them are asking too much):
#1
Asking price: $1.050 Mil. Old house (built in 1913) but nicely updated. Has suite downstairs to help with the mortgage payments, no doubt. Very small property (only 4356 sq ft). I think the seller needs to lower the asking price to about $950K max to get a sale.
#2
Asking price: $1.348 Mil. This is way too much. Again, old house (built in 1912) but looks nice. Has suite downstairs to help with the mortgage payments, no doubt. Small property (only 5760 sq ft). I think the seller really needs to sharpen his pencil and lower the asking price to under the psychological barrier of $1 Mil to get a sale. Say $995K.
I would venture to say that House #1 is possibly more attractive than House #2. But House #2 is asking for about $300K more. I don’t get it.
I certainly hope there are some careful limits put on this. I can just imagine giving the private tax records of all Canadians to China, just so they can find a few “fugitives”. I am only being slightly sarcastic, considering the amazing privacy blunders around the world.
interesting Local Fool. I wonder if BC will have any access to this for purpose of tracking their satellite families for the spec tax? I guess now that BC is on the sh**list with the feds the enhanced cooperation might be tough to come by!
Trading tax info with China will allow Canada to monitor tax evasion among foreign-property owners
China and Canada will exchange tax and financial information for the first time this fall, a move that will give Canadian authorities a window into the activities of some foreign-property owners who evade Canadian taxes in real estate markets such as Vancouver.
The exchange will also give Chinese authorities an ability to track down economic fugitives in Canada.
“It’s valuable for Canada because it gives [the country] more access to more personal financial information than ever before from China,” said Richard Kurland, a Vancouver immigration lawyer who described the development as “huge.”
http://outline.com/8Vatth
Most of the time my commute is about 1 minute from my bed to my home office. I do have an office as well for those times when I want to see what the pleebs are doing. I do prefer life at the home office though. Just glad I’m not a housing bear above all else. What a terrible life that’d be.
My parents have been approached by developers for a land assembly that involves their house. Does anyone here have tips/tricks for negotiating a price with the developer? Any pitfalls to consider? Do you involve a realtor?
And @ Cam: sounds like a sweet house and a decent lifestyle. Building costs alone are currently very high. 3000 sqft will set you back minimum $500,000 at the lower end just for the house.
We live at Shawnigan Lake and work in Langford. Purchased our 3000 sq ft 2013 built 3bd 3 bath home with 1 bed 1 bath in law suite in 2015 for $675,000. Best decision ever. We are on 1.74 private peaceful acres with commanding and stunning views of the lake, have 2 docks and are a 20 min commute to Langford. No idea what our place is worth now, but I suspect we’ll make a healthy profit when we sell to someone willing to have a short, direct commute into town on the newly expanded Malahat.
gwac,
It is possible that the assessment is out to lunch on the house, but it is also possible that the owner paid way too much for that little house (perhaps $300K-400K too much). Every room is tiny specially the living room, eating area and kitchen, and the kitchen is cheaply updated.
I think he is excellent, as well. I have also used Inspectech and thought Trevor Hoskins did a good job.
I guess the buyer thought the NDP were just kidding when they said action on the RE market was coming in the February budget. There’s bad luck, and then there’s just stupid.
Grant,
May be you can change the inspection time and date to get a good inspector. I have very limit experience with house inspectors but out of the 3 that I have used in the past Russ McCarthy at Barnes & Co. seems to be the best.
There are two houses on Lee Ave priced at over 1 million. Been on the market awhile now. Anyone have thoughts on those properties?
Check out BC assessment on that property.
881k says it sold for 1299k in Dec. Bizarre that assessment is so far off.
This one will be a very good test where the market really is with all the changes.
@Matthew
1800 Brighton was bought in Dec 2017 for $1.299M. They are just trying to get out without loosing money.
Only assessed at 880k, good luck to them… I think they will be taking a loss on this one.
Legal suite, reasonable location, I think a 20% drop in ask and this would be sold in a matter of moments.
Consider at current ask a household would need no debt, a 250k downpayment and household income of around 225k/yr to qualify for purchase. If the price dropped to 1.1m then the annual income qualification would be around 175k/yr.
I don’t know. It doesn’t sound particularly unreasonable to me. Considering the suite you have a little added flexibility. Though if you wanted a place like this I might consider just renting. I feel like you could probably rent something similar to the main living area of this house for 3k/month. No risk, no dealing with tenants. And if you were borrowing that much money then your interest is around 3k/mo anyways. No leveraged capital gains, but I imagine the market for this kind of place is about to stall for a protracted period.
1800 Brighton Ave. Asking almost $1.4 Mil
https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/19450498/1800-Brighton-Ave-Victoria-British-Columbia-V8S2C5
Another shocking example of a crazy west coast real estate market. A very old, but updated, but still very basic bungalow on a small 6000 square foot lot for almost $1.4 Mil. And it’s not even in Oak Bay. Who will buy this property? Is there that many crazy millionaires out there? Where do they come from? This property (in a normal market) should sell for about $700K max. If things were normal, a young mom and dad could buy this home and raise a family in it and have normal working careers in Victoria. But that is a complete pipe dream now.
I don’t even blame the sellers and realtors anymore. We know they are greedy people who just want to maximize their own profits. That’s human nature, so we must accept that. But it’s the stupid, irrational buyers that are the problem. So I suggest that all sensible potential buyers unite and make a solemn vow to not purchase a home anywhere in the Victoria area for one year or until prices drop 20%. Let the inventory build and build and eventually it will force sellers to reduce their asking prices. I think basically that’s exactly what the government plan is. They are raising mortgage rates (carefully) and applying things like the stress test to force silly buyers to not overspend on a house, so that they can bring some sense of reasonableness back to the real estate market before the whole thing blows up in their face.
thanks Leo
Needs 200k plus in work but a good price I think for someone.
Sold, $980k
Good second option would be James Parr from Sound & Safe
4524 rithetwood for sale
This one sale or just pulled? TIA
Thanks Marko! Unfortunately they are booked for that day.
Like Barrister, Leo, I would be interested in stats on the $2 Million [plus] luxury market. I see some sales in Uplands and Rockland after some serious price cuts – sales are hugging close to the tax assessments [which appear to be setting a psychological floor].
LeoS: I was wondering if dollar volumes for condos and for SFH might provide a different comparative insight into the market?
Russ McCarthy from Barnes and Company is by far the best inspector imo…..and he lives up there so I would highly recommend him.
Happy Victoria Day HHV – I’m looking for recommendations on house inspectors, someone very experienced who has no issues doing an inspection in Mill Bay. Ben had recommended Jeff in Mill Bay but he’s booked for when I need him this Wednesday. Thanks in advance!
LeoS: Thanks for the wonderful stats again and all the work that you put into it. Any idea how the luxury over 2 million market is doing?
Happy Victoria Day everyone. Hopefully the sun will come out at some point.
Condo sales have not been reduced as far, tracking last year more closely.
However what’s interesting is the very steady slowdown in the percentage that are going over ask. The condo market was very active before the new year as buyers were brought forward to escape the stress test. That held on for about a month in 2018 but then as pre-approvals started to run out the heat went out of the market. Now down to 15% going over ask vs about 35% last year.
Single family stats for the week. Sales up from the very slow levels of the last two weeks, down about 15% from last year.
Over ask percentage around 25% vs 40% last year. Slower, but not slow.
Sold for $1.65M late 2017.
@LeoS
Yep.
Looking forward to seeing what this week’s numbers are when they’re published next.
Josh – $1.645 mil Feb 2018 according to BC Assessment w/ previous sale of $750k in Sept 2016. $1.698 mil doesn’t seem like much of an increase. The big jump from 2016 to 2018 I think was from a major reno.
398 Constance Ave is back on the market. Gorgeous place. I think it went for about $1.3m in late 2017 but I don’t recall.
Thanks Barrister for providing some context. Definitely a sad story.
But let’s look at the facts. You still have a 1700 sqft house selling for 1.6 million. Even if it was a brand new build (I’m sure they did a great job with the Reno), this is a solid price. Let’s assume a build price @ 350/ sqf, making a build cost of ~ $600,000. That leaves 1 million for the lot and profits.
VicInvestor:
I am very familiar with this house, the first sale increase was due to the fact that the owners totally gutted the house and spent a lot of money redoing to their taste. Sadly the husband died shortly after completion and the wife could not bear being in the house since it was really his joy and delight. She actually sold at a small loss.
The significance of this recent sale (if there is any significance) is that it may be a red flag for the speculators. Perhaps time to unload and maybe not the time for a quick flip. But like the old saying in LA, one drop of rain is not like having a hot shower with Kate Beckinsale
(LA has some very strange sayings but the city has a culture that is not deep enough to be shallow).
I don’t think that’s why it’s brought up. After a few years of insane gains it’s noteworthy when a place doesn’t appreciate. Also average and median prices can be influenced by various factors, so when you see a house sell and resell in the same period it’s a bit of a more solid indicator of what happened to the market for that type of house in the period.
Yes, although I wonder if putting a charger on every stall like Vancouver is proposing is the right way to go as well. Adds a lot of cost and who knows if it will even be needed. If EV ranges go up and charging speed goes up, then it will be perfectly reasonable to drive around and just charge up for 10 min once a week at a fast charger. No need for home charging.
Or autonomous vehicles come on board in 10 years and 95% of people in the condo won’t even own a car anymore.
I’m all for charging infrastructure, but I’m not sure if we need to go nuts putting plugs in every building.
The only EV you can really make an economic case for right now is a used Leaf. Brand new they are still too expensive to pay back unless you really drive a lot. You can play with the numbers here: https://1drv.ms/x/s!AtGPo4j9IX0ui6RrTLyDSY9parKn9g
Lots of non-economic arguments for an EV, but brand new it’s tough to make the economics work.
“but the bears seem to rejoice in the losses despite the purchase price going up.”
Maybe if you salesmen would clue in that it’s exactly the same market top sign when Toronto crashed 20% over past year and Vancouver high end is currently seeing. How hard is that to comprehend?
Ask the sellers in Van who just sold under assessment and is down a million from putchase price in the last year.
I know you want your clients to keep lined up to be sheared but with the obvious signs everywhere those type of assumptions are pretty ignorant.
I don’t want to go on and on about the electric car and how cheap it is to run, but I do because people always seem shocked when I talk to them about how cheap it is to run.
It is cheap to run but still can’t come close to beating something like this when you factor in purchase price
https://www.honda.ca/fit
or the Prius C
Not a huge gain, but the price is up massively compared to its sale in 2016: $950 —> 1.61! Very healthy and rich price for this 3bed 1700 soft house. I don’t see any indication of a crashing market with this sale.
That’s the thing…the seller taking a large loss doesn’t mean the buyer is any better off…….but the bears seem to rejoice in the losses despite the purchase price going up.
It’s like a saying I once heard in Bosnia…..if my cow dies it’s all good as long as my neighbour loses two cows.
I understand the lower resale price being significant when it happens (not in this case)….but the seller taking a paper loss on transaction fees argument I’ve never understood that. How does it benefit the buyer?
@ Barrister: agree. Not a huge gain, but the price is up massively compared to its sale in 2016: $950 —> 1.61! Very healthy and rich price for this 3bed 1700 soft house. I don’t see any indication of a crashing market with this sale.
LeoS Thank you for the sale price on 1287 Rockland Ave. Sale price is up about 40k but after you include Land Transfer, legal and Real Estate fees it seems the owner lost about 50k on this flip. Generally, it would be safe to say that sales in Rockland have been really slow this spring.
I don’t want to go on and on about the electric car and how cheap it is to run, but I do because people always seem shocked when I talk to them about how cheap it is to run. That’s why I post that it costs me $1.75 to drive all the way out to Sooke and back into Victoria. I don’t even use my brakes. I use a regenerative paddle on the steering wheel to slow down and then gently tap the brakes at the last moment. The maintenance is practically nothing. And yet I hear people quibbling about the milage and the depreciation etc etc. It boggles my mind that people complain about the cost of gas and then keep driving a gas car.
The other thing that surprises me is how brand new condos in Victoria are not being built with the ability to charge the owners electric cars. There is not even enough power coming into the building if they chose to do so at a later date. People buying or renting these units will get stuck with Huge electric change overs a few short years later. Some new buildings make the grandiose claim that they have “three” chargers in the building. But that is as useful as saying…..we have three electric stoves in the building if anyone wants to cook. The buildings are out of date before the people even move into them.
@Victoria Born
The Comox Valley has actually already been booming for awhile, especially since 2015. Home prices have basically doubled, traffic has gotten pretty bad, very low rental vacancy rates and high rental costs in relation to what it really should be for the area. Tons of people exiting the mainland have moved to the area.
I wouldn’t call the CV cheap anymore either; it’s probably about on par for buying in Langford, give or take a bit.
If you don’t mind the ferry it’s not far to drive at all.
$1.61M
Prev sale Feb 2017 for $1.57M
You’re not considering the cost of maintenance and deprecitation from the mileage. Operating costs is only part of it.
“I walk past where that hockey stick attack happened on my way to the gym. I see homeless folk every time. I just don’t think the world is ending when I do.”
When I see them lying in the street dead from an OD I see a city on the fast downhill slide . I guess you just step over them. Welcome to the new Victorians who are blind to the obvious. Another reason to leave the core ASAP.
Seeing condos and townhouses trying to gouge over 40 to 50% plus over assessment. Major pain ahead when reality hits them like a brick wall. Greed is out of control.
I was wondering about the sale price for 1287 Rockland as well.
Victoria has lots of problems that will never be cured. There is little land in which to expend [bordered by ocean – beautiful ocean waters]. There is a growing homeless population, traffic congestion, crime, drugs, …. It is no longer a sleepy little town. For those of us that were born here, speaking for myself, I would not want to live anywhere else. However, I have lived in other parts of the Island and lived in Ontario. Nanaimo and the Comox Valley are beautiful, but Nanaimo has lost the small-town feel as well – it is booming and experiencing much of the growing pains that Victoria is facing including rising prices for housing. While Victoria is seeing a slow down, Nanaimo is not. I can tell you that the Asian-foreign buyer is quite active in Nanaimo and prices are rising. Comox Valley has the available land and is expecting a “boom” – it is beautiful up there. For me, Victoria remains the place to be, but I could not handle living in the Western Communities. Just me. I could not do the daily commute – life is too short to be stuck in that crawl.
I walk past where that hockey stick attack happened on my way to the gym. I see homeless folk every time. I just don’t think the world is ending when I do.
You are welcome. Now that we live upisland we use Comox or Nanaimo to fly our daughter in. From either airport you can connect with the world. Nanaimo is also expanding and will offer more flights soon. It is a great way to go and yes can be much cheaper.
http://www.timescolonist.com/business/55-million-expansion-project-for-nanaimo-airport-terminal-1.23174665
I didn’t even think of that.. I should have done that for our upcoming flight this week, I could have gotten tickets for $282 instead of the $400 I paid into Victoria. Thanks Grace
Sounds lovely Grant. You could also use the Nanaimo airport…very easy to get to and they fly to Calgary direct.
What’s holding you down? Could it be that selling your house right before the market shot up another 40% has taken a toll on your retirement plans? You must be getting close to retirement, what with all the crystal-clear reminiscences of the 1981 housing crash.
Don’t let the door hit you on your way out.
Does anyone know sold price for 1287 Rockland Ave? 3rd sale in 2 years!
“I walk downtown pretty much every day and still don’t see the problems people are talking about.”
Josh you must be one of those who have head down on phone with ear buds in. You have to be totally blind to not see it if you use any of main routes of Pandora, Johnson ,Douglas ,Blanshard on a regular basis.
We haven’t even touched base on the rampant psychotic screamers that should be locked up and they extend well out of the downtown core.
Amazing how many want to put on the rose colored glasses just because its sunny here for a few months a year. I can’t wait to get out.
Dont throw away the snow shovel, it does snow here in winter from time to time.
Thanks to those who posted kind words. It’s been nerve racking and we’re just getting into this transition phase.
Ha thanks! If I had to commute to Victoria for work we wouldn’t have picked Mill Bay.. when I lived in California I served my sentence – in the mid 90s over 9 years I had commutes of 40-60 minutes each way, at one point I was driving from Berkeley to Palo Alto and that took 1.5 hours each way, 2 hours or more when there was an accident on the bridge. So no thank you been there done that, that kind of commuting is literally unhealthy and wears you down. So now with no commute it came down to value. The house that we were able to get in a beautifully wooded area for 865K would be easily 1.3M+ in Victoria or on the Saanich peninsula.. it’s still a ways for me to get to the airport but that will be manageable for how many times I have to go there.
I’m so excited and relieved that this last winter, where I spent 1 hour one particular day shoveling because there was so much snow, is a thing of the past!!
Downtown Victoria on a sunny day with tourists etc. is great! As a woman I go downtown alone all the time and always enjoy it. Great variety of stores and restaurants. Don’t t go at night very often…I think the gong show begins after midnight.
Enjoy downtown..it is a place worth supporting and enjoying.
Also laughable when people complain about the parking rates ( not on here) they are so cheap. In fact cheaper to take the car down for a couple of hours than ride the bus!
Me too. I think it is a case of; “it’s so busy no one goes there anymore.” 🙂
Thank you Josh and Leo for adding a bit of measured optimism to offseat the drumbeat of negativity on Victoria.
I think we are lucky to live here. Yes Victoria has problems. Terrible governance with 13 munis, homeless problem, affordability issues. But I don’t think it is polyanna-ish to acknowledge that we live in one of the nicest cities in one of the best countries located on the most livable planet known to science.
For people that dislike Victoria – consider moving if you can. Literally anywhere in Canada other than TO and Van are cheaper to live than here. Make some room for someone that likes it here. 🙂 If you are trapped here by circumstances not of your choosing – my condolences.
I Agree Josh.
Bike lanes are great. City is more vibrant than before. Homeless and drug issues seem to be the same as 10 years ago. Am downtown every day. I think it’s doing just fine. Bridge is amazing. A big shout out to the cops. They do a great job
Introvert:
Welcome to the island and we all look forward to attending your first barbecue.
I walk downtown pretty much every day and still don’t see the problems people are talking about. My heartbeat doesn’t rage higher at the sight of bike lanes and seeing homeless people or the odd obvious addict doesn’t make me think the city is a cesspool. I’ve said it before – it’s nice here.
It costs me around $1.75 to fill up my volt with electricity. The drive to Sooke and Back from Victoria is a total of 80 kilometres from my house. The Chevrolet Volt gets me out to Sooke and back on one charge.
That works out to around 2 cents a kilometre average when you consider winter and summer driving. British Columbia has cheap electricity compared to other provinces. (Quebec has the best price in Canada. But BC is still very cheap. People still complain. )
Congrats. Don’t ditch the blog now that you’re an owner!
Well, you’ve been wrong about everything since forever, so we’ll definitely take your outlook very seriously.
Congratulations Grant and family!
Umm, this is where the city is turning into a shithole, the rampant homeless, where most of the new jobs are, and increased traffic problems, many related to bad bike lane planning. If you’re not living/working in it then it’s always sunny on the outside.
When you constantly watch junkies/homeless run out on roads randomly like frogger it gives you a whole new perception of “vibrant”. It will be interesting when NAFTA blows up and the new tech industry/manufacturing takes a major shift.
Congrats. I hope it goes well for you. May the Malahat look kindly upon your travels.
Watch out everybody in Victoria and Vancouver Island. We’re now officially headed out your way as our offer on a house in Mill Bay was accepted last night! Woohoo!
Re: Voip
I researched voip a few years ago, never pulling the trigger, but I remember Ooma ranking well. http://www.ca.ooma.com
Also, as a local now, going on a first name basis 🙂
It’s clear that I have an extremely feeble understanding of variable rate mortgages. I’m going to have to rectify this.
Rook, I’ve always been a part-time asshole on this blog. Not looking to go full-time.
Happy Victoria Day Weekend to all. The newest rumor is that they are looking at James Bay as the location for a major project to house the homeless. It sort of makes sense since James Bay is a bastion of the NDP and there should be strong community support for the project.I am not sure if I think it is a good idea or not. Apparently they are talking numbers of between 80 to 120.
Introvert: Any recommendations would be appreciated.
Whoa, so polite all of a sudden!
“Commonly overlooked benefit of bike commuting is that not only are you not stuck in traffic, you can save the hour at the gym later which makes the commute effectively take zero time”
This would appear to be the gift that keeps on giving. Everytime I drive downtown I experience a sustained elevation in heart rate as I observe the bike lane idiocy, the loss of traffic efficiency, the forest of hideous signs and signals at.every.single.intersection., the crappy green paint, all in aid of absent cyclists. This is easily the equivalent of an hour at the gym.
If just a handful more of you could ignore the bike lanes and ride gormlessly down the middle of the (few) remaining roads this would reliably add a “sprint” phase to the BPM.
Excellent ideas. Thanks.
It was amusing that the minister said they would make homelessness history with the $90M investment into affordable housing. Cringeworthy.
Pretty much what you already said. Very isolated. Very expensive to build given the distance and bringing in all the materials.
I don’t. I’m quite excited that Victoria is not much more vibrant than it used to be. Yes, I am very concerned that outside money might distort the market like it has in Vancouver, and I can do without big city problems, but overall I think it’s exciting that there are tons of developments going up. It’s exciting that the tech scene is expanding and more companies are flourishing here. It’s exciting that the community seems to be getting tired of NIMBYism and is considering innovative new solutions to housing. It’s exciting that bike and EV infrastructure and energy efficient housing is being pushed forward.
I think the increase in job opportunities in Victoria in the last decade has been amazing. Housing affordability is a huge problem, but I think with dedicated work and focus it can be, if not solved, at least kept from exploding into a disaster like Vancouver.
Edit: However I recognize that that perspective might be largely influenced by the fact that we are now already established here. My views would likely be less optimistic if I was trying to get started here.
Edit 2: Also I don’t go downtown much so don’t see the problems there on a regular basis.
Not a big deal I think. The system (roads) are sized for peak usage (rush hour). 10% more driving outside those peak hours probably won’t make a difference. That said if more people are OK with living in Sooke because it’s 5 cents/km instead of 20 cents/km that could add to traffic demands. But total energy usage would still be down and GHG emissions way down.
It is true that we can’t just rely on people to drive less because it is the right thing to do. There have to be other incentives. Just as with the general Jevons Paradox, there are other social factors than just greed.
In other words, the “rational” market will not save us from stupidity unless we do other things, as well as increase efficiency.
Same with EVs. I found I drive about 10% more, but use a quarter of the energy doing it
What is everyone starts driving 10% more because it is a fraction of the cost? I am sure there are people out there that think twice about optional drives secondary to cost of gas.
Modern lighting has not increased demand. It has cut demand. Yes people may use more lights with efficient LEDs but not anywhere close to 10 times more to offset the efficiency gains.
Same with EVs. I found I drive about 10% more, but use a quarter of the energy doing it
We did. Variable rates are set by discount off prime, and that discount is now over 1% due to increased competition.
Looks like BMO and TD duking it out at 2.45%…wonder if you can negotiate any further off that. Personally, I would definitively go variable right now. It is almost a 1% spread between variable and a 5-year fixed.
Commonly overlooked benefit of bike commuting is that not only are you not stuck in traffic, you can save the hour at the gym later which makes the commute effectively take zero time
Or can we barge in an old OB house onto the island? Cheaper and faster than building a new one.
We did. Variable rates are set by discount off prime, and that discount is now over 1% due to increased competition.
Caveat:
We have small towns up island and very few cities. A city is generally defined as 100,000 or more. it is fair to include a cluster of municipalities as one city. None of the ones you list qualify as a city. Duncan has a population of under 5,000 for example. Build a medical school, nursing school and an engineering school in Duncan along with a few thousand provincial government jobs and you will have created a nucleus for a city.
Seems like we have plenty of small cities on the island. No need to create whole new ones. Cowichan, Ladysmith, Parksville, Qualicum, Port Alberni, Comox Valley, Campbell River. As a second tier further out we have Port Hardy, Port McNeil, Sayward, Gold River, Port Renfrew, Youbou.
The first tier is thriving and growing. The second tier not so much. Once the resource industries moved on or downsized there was less rationale to live in those spots
Curious
That seems about right for an island. Issues are what you listed plus the cost of building there. 2000 sq ft expect 500k to 600k if not more.
Another good vid from Steve Saretsky (May 5):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QqCAliOjTg&t=216s
I’ve been looking for some oceanfront land but it is all quite a bit above my price range. I’ve come across 3 parcels on Sidney Island, all under $300k. I understand its strata (monthly fees are around $238/month) and the ferry to the island doesn’t run year ‘round, but could anyone fill me in why the prices still seem quite reasonable? I’m wondering what I’m missing…not quite ready to engage a realtor quite yet. Any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks!
Steve Saretsky’s latest video (May 12), worth a quick listen (9 mins)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbsWAsRuDY0
Off topic I know but this is a good news story in a pile of shitty ones today. At long last….
BREAKING
Seattle man arrested in connection with 1987 slayings of B.C. high school sweethearts
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/seattle-man-arrested-in-connection-with-1987-slayings-of-b-c-high-school-sweethearts-1.4669139
I’ve been on voip.ms for a long time now. You can port numbers and all that and just use voip phones directly if you don’t want to build your own pbx. Their support tends to be really good.
Just curious, aren’t these issues (road congestion, homelessness, mental health and drug usage) in Victoria are on same progress level as in other cities across Canada? Victoria is a bit remote and a bit isolated, but how could we expect the issues wouldn’t show up or getting worse here like in other cities, wrap it up in a (now-banned) plastic bag?
We can all complain about bad city symptoms as we wish, but these are not going away or getting better, without actions and means to attack the root causes at national, city, neighborhood, and individual levels.
Just my 2 (left-over) pennies
Can anyone recommend a good Internet (VOIP) home phone service (other than https://voip.ms)? I’m looking for one that is reasonably simple to set up and lets you keep your existing phone number.
Voipmuch.ca seems to be inexpensive and not too difficult to set up.
Any recommendations would be appreciated.
Really nice to see a local company doing this. LightSpeed is out of Burnaby, so I don’t feel too bad. TekSavvy is from back east, but I do hear good things about them. You have to so some research to see who can service your area. It looks like my 25mbit LightSpeed is cheaper than Juce, though.
The only downside of LightSpeed is that all the websites that use IP for geolocation (Home Depot, etc) think I am in Surrey. On the other hand, it might be a decent anti-tracking feature if you care about such things.
Sorry Hawk
You are right meant MLAs not MPs.
https://www.infoplease.com/world/population-statistics/total-population-world-decade-1950-2050
40% more people in the world using the same land is hard to undo also.
“Class action suit launch against NDP spec tax. 2 MPs have been specifically named in the letter.”
A bunch of whiny real estate salesmen and Albertans with too much money no doubt. Which MP’s ? I see 2 MLA’s getting an exemption. Weaver rents out his places way under market value I thought I read.
Barrister, shockingly I agree with you. I meant existing addicts or new addicts proven via street doctors, not free drugs for all.
So undoing globalization and the ever-increasing income/wealth inequality it ushered in. That should be a piece of cake!
I’ve got to look into this. My monthly Shaw bill is outrageous, and has been for a while.
Everyone I know who has dumped Shaw and/or Telus has converted to JUCE Internet and the comments from these folks are 100% positive. But they only provide high speed cable internet; but no TV or phone service. Most people only need their 15 Mbps plan for $45 per month; it’s fast and your household can do Netflix and YouTube and cruise internet simultaneously.
https://www.juce.ca
Homelessness as we know it today didn’t exist before 1990 or so. So undoing the factors that brought about the problem should end it. That doesn’t mean the political will is there of course.
The suit is by individuals, not other provinces (as implied by URL). No province would take part in such a suit because a win would erode their own jurisdiction over RE. I find it amusing that the suit cites mobility rights as the actual wording in the Charter is “move to and take up residence in any province”.
PEI has been charging out of province owners higher property taxes for years.
Re speeding….common sense which appartently isn’t that common 🙂
I drive 45,000km +/- per year including the Pat Bay every day and I haven’t had a speeding ticket in 12 years.
Etc., etc….
Kind of real estate commissions. If people had some common sense everyone would be saving 5 to 20k on each sale, but apparently people like throwing money away on speeding tickets and real estate commissions and MERS.
My 2 cents this morning.
I can also recommend a local Victoria company Juce Internet, https://www.juce.ca/
I’ve had a great experience with them.
I know that the neighbouring B@B is now recommending restaurants in Oak Bay to their guests since they have had a lot of negative comments about downtown at night. For that matter they have been getting a lot of extremely negative comments about downtown in general unlike anything that they heard before.
True. Capitalism and drastically cutting GHG emissions are incompatible. I’ve been reading about this lately.
Homelessness is insoluble. We should always strive to lessen it and improve our ability to help people, but it will never be “solved.”
Substitute Victoria for Vancouver, and I bet there’s people in the Comox Valley saying the same thing!
They sit at the top of the hill near Uptown too, right outside their Saanich HQ and catch people going from 80 to 50 a little too late. It’s uphill for god’s sake, it’s better to let that hill be your braking force then to hit the brakes before and use more gas puttering uphill only to stop at the lights. The cop said “Oh, I thought you were driving a prius!”. Pretty sure that’s why he picked us out of the lineup. The truck in front of us was doing the same friggin’ speed. Grumble grumble. But ya point is cops here are garbage at actually increasing safety or punishing poor drivers.
First, one really needs to separate the issues of drug addition and the mentally ill while recognizing that there is often an overlap between the two.
Secondly, it is time to recognize that with hard core drug users even the very best treatment centers ( working with the most promising and motivated addicts) have a very minimal long term success rate. We cannot “fix” the vast majority of these addicts. I am not saying that we should give up on treatment programs but rather we need to recognize that a serious percentage of the addicts while be addicts for the rest of their lives. That leaves us with the simple question of how to manage the situation.
I hate to agree with Hawk, and i doubt that we would agree to the details, but it is time to accept that we have to provide heroin to hard core drug addicts. This is a bit different than “legalizing” it in the sense that anyone can buy it. But it is also important to accept the complexity of the situation. A certain percentage of addicts can function normally in society as long as they are getting their maintain fix but there will also be a certain percentage that really need to be institutionalized. While we as a society do have an obligation to look after these poor souls we are not required to house them on some of the most expensive real estate in the province.
This will undoubtedly lead to all sort of different points of view but let us start with the harsh reality that a majority of the hard core drug users will be addicts for life and not subscribe to the fairy tale that we will fix them all somehow magically.
Class action suit launch against NDP spec tax. 2 MPs have been specifically named in the letter.
http://victoriabuzz.com/2018/05/bc-government-being-sued-by-other-provinces-over-speculation-tax/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook
Thanks for the reminder about Teksavvy. I was with them for ages in Ottawa and they were great. I’m paying nearly $100/mon for just internet with Shaw and it’s driving me insane. Time to book an appointment and save a ton of money!
I still enjoy downtown and feel pretty safe there.
But then I am never
down there at night.
I think if you move to Victoria from any other city you will think we are just grouchy old people…which is probably true…..but the change has been so fast…
That Lang St is still way overpriced for what it is.
Correction on the downtown attack. There are 6 victims plus many more who may have not reported who got away before being attacked or got off with a light injury. These poor folks will have serious PTSD for years to come to go along with their head wounds/concussions etc.
This is so disgusting that the Liberal government of BC for the last 16 years has allowed this crap to build up and turned a complete blind eye to it until it’s now out of control.
That is a scary story Leif. Glad nothing happened. Its happening in other parts of town 5 minutes away from stories from friends who walk to town for work.
I have to drive by that area to work frequently and the shit you see is just insane. You can always tell when the fentanyl levels are high as they are either laid out all over the place half dead or running out into traffic/ threatening others.
I expect more of these insane attacks until they legalize all drugs and control the distribution and help clean these people up somehow. Won’t be easy at this point but I would never walk through that shit show. Those buying those high priced condos across the street and in the entire area are in for a major wake up call.
@qt
A lot of government workers are at George and Jutland.
DuranDuran
We recently switched to TekSavvy https://teksavvy.com/en/residential/internet for both cable internet (150mbit for $69.95) and phone (VOIP for $9.95) and we’re loving it. The irony is, we’re still on Shaw since it is their infrastructure but paying 40% less per month.
Once & Future, QT-
Thx for the tip regarding Lightspeed. I’ll check them out.
Barrister,
I use to bike everywhere around Victoria in the 80s and 90s, spends time at downtown movies theaters, going to restaurants (John’s Place, Pagliacci, Barb’s, and Overtime restaurants), and many weekends and evening after class/work I would stroll down the break water at Ogden Point to fish, but that golden time has long past because of traffics.
There was a period of 4-5 years in the last 20 years or so that I didn’t go anywhere near downtown Victoria (at one point I lived on Topaz Ave by Summit Park), and I make sure that I take alternative routes to cut across town to visit my mom and siblings who lives in town and I in Langford.
I also agree that the government should act upon their plan/discussions for the last 40 years to move their offices out of town to curb traffics into town. There were an initial plan to move away from town in the late 80s to early 90s was to the Wang building on Carey road, but it was short lived and the government moved back to downtown Victoria. During that time the government also moved BC Systems to Seymoure place near Uptown Mall. The later there were a plan to move some government services to Colwood Corner and Gorge/Jutland Road, but that also failed because of the cries of government workers who resided in James Bay.
Well, I find Victoria much less pleasant than it was five years ago and less attractive than five years ago. Why are people so surprised that if you keep increasing density that there is a threshold where traffic suddenly gets much worse.
Unless we get a government that creates the infrastructure for more new small cities on the island than the situation is only going to get worse. This also involves moving government jobs en mass to these new city clusters.
Personally I avoid downtown whenever possible. Different strokes for different folks. But, Victoria will increasingly look and feel more like Vancouver with each passing year. Why are people so surprised that similar policies produce similar results.
Just like once and future, I have great experience with Lightspeed as well, but initially it was a bit of a pain to setup and the service wasn’t reliable for a bout 3-4 months. The poor service could be an tribute to their fresh rolled out to my area over 3 years ago.
I have unlimited monthly bandwidth that add an additional $5.00 to the $44.95 ADSL plan, and the total come in at $55.95 per month after tax.
I lived downtown for years and my walk home was past the safe injection site. 10 years ago it was bad IMO but now it’s taken to another level. The other day I thought we were going to be attacked by a guy who was harassing people for money then telling them they were pieces of shit when they wouldn’t pay him. He came up to us as 3 males and I was honestly wondering if he would pull something out, he was clearly deranged. As hawk posted today there was a major attack.
Meanwhile the cops are having a gay ol time in the Friday sun impounding as many cars as possible at the ferry terminal. I really dislike Victoria for that. Drive the pat Bay on a sunny spring afternoon and there are cops at Mckenzie, then Quadra then Sidney and their favorite the ferry catching people going from 80.to 20 kmh and impounding their car.
I remember being pulled over to be told how driving related calls were the number 1 concern. Of people in this city. Get a life. Go to Toronto and tell me how many cops are setting up radar traps on the 401 or any of the major streets… 0!
Meanwhile we have a opioid epidemic and homeless and mental health but at least the cops are fining us to pay for more cops. How about taking some of that $100k police salaries out of integrated police unit and put it into a mental Health help unit.
Speaking of saving money (and being Mustachian), for anyone who is tired of paying stupid money for a landline, I recommend this:
https://voip.ms/
You will need some patience to set it up, but it is worth the effort. I think we spend an average of $16/mo for the phone, all in (I do a fair bit of work on the phone).
@AZ
1484 Lang st I posted about a few weeks ago. Honestly mind boggling price at 950k. I’ve seen a few sell in Oakland for crazy amounts and I can only think it’s from people from out of town. At that price go buy in James Bay or Fairfield.
DuranDuran, we have been on LightSpeed Internet for the last 3 years, using their dry-loop DSL over the Telus wire (we don’t use a landline, only VOIP). Costs about $45/mo+tax for 25mbit. Has been pretty reliable.
https://www.lightspeed.ca/
I think they also offer cable plans (using Shaw cables) in some areas. I am reasonably tech-savvy and set up my own VDSL modem which saved some money at the beginning. It ended up dying after a couple years and so I just bought one from Lightspeed. It was a bit more expensive but has been reliable since.
Well, Grace just summed it up much more eloquently than I ever could. I’m mostly just sick of the explosion of douche nozzles in their blatantly showy cars and trucks. Especially that dude in the black Porsche (kit car?) that just cruises up Government and back down Douglas, going nowhere, with it’s air-cooled exhaust shouting “hey look at me, I’m having a mid-life crisis”. Meanwhile, there are homeless people everywhere. And what are we doing to solve their mental health / substance abuse issues?
edit: 3/4 life crisis
You might want to check the Victoria news once inawhile. The place is turning into a shithole in the core. Innocent people minding their own randomly getting smoked in the head etc by a whacko all over the downtown.Over a dozen at last count and maybe more who haven’t come forward the cops said.
Man attacks people with stick in downtown Victoria
http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/man-attacks-people-with-stick-in-downtown-victoria-1.23306007
I wrote up a long response and the computer ate it but basically I hate seeing Victoria start to lose its soul ( like Vancouver has). I grew up in Vancouver in the 70s. It was a wonderful place to live back then.
Victoria is still Victoria, don’t get me wrong. It is my favourite place in the world (we live upisland at the moment but lived in the.
city for 20years and will move back,eventually). I just hate the growing disparity between the rich and the poor and people stuck in the middle struggling to make ends meet. Yes the city has always had wealthy neighbourhoods but the mix of different incomes was always there in so many areas. Now young families with good incomes are raising their kids in cramped apartments and despairing they will ever be able to afford even the most modest house. Many seniors can barely get by. That stuff makes me sad.
Traffic gets worse all the time and in all parts of the city..okay Oak Bay is still a seniors dream come true…in any other city they would be run off the road. Used to be able to get across the city with ease in less than 15 minutes…the last few years we had to think about the time of day, what route to take…more road rage. More running of red lights, cutting people off etc.
But don’t get me wrong Victoria is still a gem. People are friendly,they smile and look you in the eye. People chat on the bus and in general are considerate of each other.
But slowly I see the city starting to become like the lower mainland. If we weren’t on an island the pace of change would be really scary.
Still coming from the present day Vancouver you will love Victoria. Just pull up the drawbridge behind you!
About to move into the new house, in the next week or two.
Anyone have experience with alternative internet service companies? AEBC Internet, InnSys, or anyone else that offers a (much) better deal than Telus/Shaw?
Would either of you care to elaborate? I’m keen to hear your thoughts. I was raised there, went to UBC, moved back home after graduation, but then moved to Vancouver in 2010 two years after my mom passed away. Now I have a wife and 3 year-old son of my own, and am romanticizing a life in Victoria quite frequently. We are trying to lay the groundwork to move to Victoria in September.
While at UBC, I would remark to my Vancouver friends how significantly my thoughts and outlook would change after spending long durations (months) of time in each city. The pendulum would swing very far in the direction of consumption and materialism while in Vancouver. And now, having lived here full-time for 8 years, I’ve changed for the worse. When you step out the frame and take it in, Vancouver is pretty absurd. Conspicuous consumption that is so uniform, its suffocating. Blatant rule-breaking by locals/foreigners/REAgents/raccoons/unicorns met with apathetic shrugs. And civic politics that could fill a 3-frame comic strip in the Sunday Edition for a number of years.
So please, if you don’t mind, can you share your thoughts?
A little off topic but has anyone here hired a landscaper to creat garden beds, a pathway etc. And if so what did you pay per hour?
Thanks Intro and Once and Future for the Jevons links. An amazing person.
it seems that the Jevons Paradox can be generalized in some way to indicate that all increases in productivity are detrimental to the environment, since they increase the power of consumption. If so, the only way to save the planet may be to stay in bed at least until noon, thereby reducing one’s productivity, earnings and, hence, consumption.
Can you be more specific? A Maserati dealership is certainly a symptom.
I hate what is happening to Victoria.
When cities have no affordable housing, there is a lot of collateral damage. For example, it is not very good for the environment if the worker bees have to drive cars (gas or electric) for 2 hours each day to get to and from their jobs. It’s just additional unnecessary pollution. Also, it is very unproductive to have thousands and thousands of motorists on the road each day struck in traffic jams. It can be a dangerous lifestyle too. When there’s an accident on the Malahat it’s usually serious, unfortunately.
Obviously it’s not the only factor for desirability, but I bet there are a lot of people would love to live further afield if they didn’t have to commute into the city for work. I telecommute, but wanted to be within Victoria proper for proximity to things that downtown offers (food, resto, coffee, shops etc etc).
And boy do I ever hate driving in Oak Bay. Too many Sunday drivers at any given day/time.
https://guides.github.com/features/mastering-markdown/
@Leif, it’s all just markdown.
Caveat
My bad I assumed a report that came out yesterday was a tad more recent than data from 2014-2016. I shall ignore conference board reports as a tad stale in the future.
Leo having a quoting function built in would be great… A faq section on how to quote, post images etc would be nice too.
Right on, YeahWright. 30min bike distance was ours rule too on buying when we were working, even in Ottawa, where the riding roads were often under snow and ice 41.7% time of the year.
Like the new site look, and have been busy to “vote up” 🙂 so it is very good there is no “vote down” 😉
GWAC your turn first. You cited a report on BC’s falling grade in innovation and blamed it on the NDP. Turns out the most recent data from the report is from 2016 (before the NDP was elected). Many of the indicators in the report used data from 2013,2014 and 2015. Please explain why this falling grade (based on data from when the BC Liberals were in power) is actually the fault of the NDP
Our favorite rip off the moment(though it’s probably getting closer to selling).
1484 Lang st
Now $799k, down from $949k.
The Jevons Paradox is not as simple as many people like to think. If anyone is interested in efficiency, housing and energy usage, I recommend this video. It is longish but worth watching to the end.
Who’s Afraid of the Big, Bad Jevons Paradox? | Hammer & Hand
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exNrjLlhbD8
Gotta think that telecommuting is only going to increase as tech gets better for it and more companies embrace remote work. Also gotta think that will put downward pressure on housing prices in the core as well, as many people likely live closer to town due to their jobs.
Not sure if I buy this theory. Just look at Oak Bay and Esquimalt. Pretty sure commute to downtown is shorter from Esquimalt.
Great article, LeoS.
I should have suspected you were a Mustachian.
😉
I’m grateful that I get to telecommute. I am much happier and more productive working from home. And I get to see more of my family.
Gotta think that telecommuting is only going to increase as tech gets better for it and more companies embrace remote work. Also gotta think that will put downward pressure on housing prices in the core as well, as many people likely live closer to town due to their jobs.
GAIN Group adds elegant Italian brand Maserati to Island stable
Happy to have something to spend the HELOC on.
Caveat
Please explain what the NDP has done to help/attract businesses or innovation. All about affordable housing which is going to fail. 1m houses are not going to 500K. 2k apartments are not going to 1k. 2 dollar a litre gas is a real possible as they fight a fight that they will lose.
Please look after the economy and jobs before is too late…
What’s a worrying, though, is that the transition from gas-powered cars to more efficient and cheaper to operate electric cars will do for energy consumption what modern lighting has done: increase demand.
Never really thought about that but very true.
GAIN Group adds elegant Italian brand Maserati to Island stable
The GAIN Group opens a Maserati dealership in Victoria on Friday — the first for Vancouver Island — as the company invests $25 million in new expanded facilities for its automobile brands.
This will be the seventh Maserati dealership in Canada, he said.
http://www.timescolonist.com/business/gain-group-adds-elegant-italian-brand-maserati-to-island-stable-1.23305260
Victoria in top spot on Christie’s global luxury housing markets list
Greater Victoria is on top of the world when it comes to the “hottest” housing markets around the globe, according to Christie’s International Real Estate.
The company’s “luxury thermometer” for primary markets set Victoria on top, followed by San Diego and Orange County in California, Washington, D.C., and Paris.
http://www.timescolonist.com/real-estate/victoria-in-top-spot-on-christie-s-global-luxury-housing-markets-list-1.23305265
@gwac
re: http://vancouversun.com/news/politics/two-thirds-of-homes-hit-by-new-speculation-tax-will-be-b-c-owned
I think the BC people they’re referring to that are going to be hit with this tax, for the most part are likely to be satellite families that don’t pay tax in BC. I’d be interested to see the stats in a few years as to how this plays out.
Good article LeoS.
I think it comes down to lifestyle — For me, a long commute isn’t worth it, especially once you have kids. That time you spend in the car is time you could have spent with your family, friends or just relaxing. An extra 2+ hours of that per day is really valuable. I’d take a pay cut to live closer to work, or pay more in rent (if I couldn’t afford to buy) to live closer to work.
I know a few people that bought in the burbs and commuted into the city, but once they had kids, they quit their jobs with long commutes, and got work (with a pay cut) closer to home so they could have more time with their kids (both parents were working).
Don’t worry gwac will be back to explain why it is STILL all the NDP’s fault.
See: Jevons paradox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
When we were looking for homes to buy, I would look at Google maps and factor in up to one hour bike ride from my work. That was the max I would commute on a bike.
We settled on a house about 20 to 25 min. bike ride.
I love being able to bike on my commute!
@ Deryk Houston
There speaks an honest commuter. He loves his car and enjoys driving.
What’s a worrying, though, is that the transition from gas-powered cars to more efficient and cheaper to operate electric cars will do for energy consumption what modern lighting has done: increase demand.
Interesting discussion on long distance commuting. This is a common practice in many areas of the U.S. Lived in metro-DC area for years and many colleagues commuted 1.5 hrs or more each way. This was back in the late-80’s. Whenever I asked why they would commute such a distance, it was always quality of life – for their entire family. They loved where they lived, the wife & kids loved where they lived, and they felt grounded. The commute didn’t seem to bother them.
Around 2000, worked for a Silicon Valley firm. Hired a guy whose commute on an empty highway would be 2 hours but given the area, his commute was 3-4 hours each way. Same question and his was the same answer. The family liked where they lived and enjoyed the house for it’s size, location, and area amenities. I didn’t understand it at the time though upon reflection my commute was longer – east coast to west coast via red-eyes for 2-3 weeks every month. I wasn’t about to move for the job to an area I wasn’t in love with.
There are many more variables than just cost. Now that I’m older, I like my slipper commute of down 1 flight of stairs.
According to the Conference Board, the most recent data sources are from 2016.
http://www.conferenceboard.ca/hcp/Datasources/data-innovation_prov.aspx
Stellar job NDP. BC fell the most. Not everyone can have a government job.
http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/canada-earns-precarious-c-grade-in-innovation-as-investment-levels-slump-conference-board
Well the true story about the spec tax is emerging. NDP just is making shit up a they go. BC residents are largest impacted group. The province is getting the reputation of anti business anti hard working successful people. Keep it up and let see how that works out in the long run for jobs/ growth and investment.
Just another one of their taxes on assets.
http://vancouversun.com/news/politics/two-thirds-of-homes-hit-by-new-speculation-tax-will-be-b-c-owned
gwac,
I’m sorry that I can’t divulge the full story in public, hence I’m willing to talk in private.
QT
You are asking for advice without giving the full story. Not sure the point of that.
Any lawyer who saw a case and could make $ would. That would be my first indication that whatever you are not telling may impact your case.
Second time this month I’ve been involved in a transaction with purchasers moving into the suite and leaving the upstairs tenant to help with affordability.
Marko Juras,
Exactly it. I can’t divulge any more information here, however I would gladly tell you the rest in private if you care to know.
Love this! Helps to make the shift in thinking from straight purchase price to complete ownership costs in life energy whether it be time or money or both. That is how to assess value imo.
Also: Autonomous cars are only five years away. ( Let’s say seven years).
15 to 20 years imo.
Yes Lief, selling under assessment will be the elephant in the room the real estate industry/media will take as long as possible to talk about.
The Bloomberg article luxury homes article is a pile of crap put out by industry insiders who plead with them them to help sell their overpriced shacks. Meanwhile Vancouver luxury sells under assessment but no mention of that major fact. That would ruin a good story.
I thought you said you were going to go variable this time.
PS. I would love to hear any suggestions that you may have since seemed to have knowledge in this matter. Thanks
Something doesn’t add up. They are within the offset of a survey done by J.E. Anderson (the biggest firm in Victoria) and Langford is turning a blind eye?
Just don’t see how that is possible.
This isn’t rocket science. You pull a string between two pins and one side is your property and the other side isn’t.
When it comes to property boundary disputes I typically find people to be complicated and unreasonable. My old neighbour is the perfect example.
I paid for a survey and then I went to consult him on the fence and I was open to all three options; however, he was a complicated individual.
He didn’t want the fence on his side because then he felt he would be responsible for all the maintenance.
He didn’t want the fence down the middle because a small tree would have to come down.
Then he ended up sending me a letter of claim that his basement is flooding because my driveway (40′ from his house) somehow crushed his drain tiles which are 50 years old. I read it and honestly thought the lawyer who took $1,000 or so of his money should be reported to the law society for hosing him out of $1,000. Anyone with common sense would have been like how on earth can something 40′ away crush your drain tiles. Needless to say I took the letter and shredded it and that was the end of that. Thank god he eventually sold.
Also the stress levels are brutal. Coworkers who lived up island and Westshore always coming into work pissed off or stressed out leaving work like it’s the Indy 500, or just staying overtime for free because they know it’s backed up for hours.
Peninsula not so bad as there are alternate routes.
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/03/a-mystery-the-people-who-enjoy-commuting/474138/
Not every one hates commuting but many do.
-> Canadians enjoy their paid employment more than their commute on average
-> The longer the commute, the less likely people are to report enjoying it
-> My favourite fact — “Nineteen percent of people who rode their bikes to work said commuting was their most delightful daily activity, compared to only two percent of drivers who felt the same way.
There are many ride-sharing programs, formal and informal, on Vancouver Island. There are 3 that I personally know of from Nanaimo to Victoria [leave Nanaimo at 6:00 a.m. [90 minute drive each way]. It is a large van with comfortable seating for 10 – you can take a nap – not my cup of tea.
Mind you, homes in Nanaimo are not as cheap as they used to be, which has caught the eye of the NDP who included Nanaimo in the Foreign Buyer’s net.
Toss in increased chances of an accident and the associated losses in time etc for every day there is one and it’s a 2 hour delay getting home and it’s a crap shoot.
BTW, I see condo listings at an all time high. The coming condo bubble popping is playing out as predicted with sales tanking.
Been on some adventures up-Island recently. Another visit to the Comox Valley has reinforced how stunningly beautiful that spot is. But walking through “downtown” Courtenay—holy small-town feel, Batman!
It’s been observed before: Courtenay/Comox is to Victoria as Victoria is to Vancouver.
On another note, the website changes are acceptable, but I miss the blue shading for unread comments (I’m using Chrome browser).
@CS
Most people actually like driving.
HA! I call BS! If I could continue to work from home for the rest of my life if I can. After 7 years working from home and living all over but only having to turn on a laptop I have never missed driving. When I do I can go for a drive for pleasure. Driving to work is not pleasurable for anyone except on a nice sunny day when the windows are down and you decide to take your time. You tell me how much you love it in Nov/December when it is dark when you go to work in the rain and dark and rainy when you return. I remember countless times where I almost fell asleep. People do NOT enjoy commuting. People can enjoy driving but not commuting especially as more and more cars and traffic are in town.
I am blown away when I drive into town here and there and get caught in all the traffic (which is nothing compared to other cities) but I still find it a pain and I only do it once in a while.
When I owned a motorcycle I rode for pleasure not for need (commute) it is a night and day difference. The same way I would take out a car for a drive not a commute.
Try moving somewhere in which you do not need to own a car to commute and can rely only on your feet then tell me how much you loved your driving commute.
LeoS:
Once again a really nice article that gives one pause to think. An additional factor for a lot of people, but not all, is whether one can afford to buy anything within walking distance of your work. For some it becomes a choice between renting or owning. The other factor is job stability. Moving every time you change jobs is often not viable.
But fundamentally, I think you have provided us with a valuable tool and a very helpful aid to help people in making a decision.
4524 Rithetwood Dr Broadmead $40k under assessed. (Just adding this as we had another discussion around that place in Cordova Bay going under assessed > $1m). 1.150m ask, 980k sold.
“So if you are buying in Sooke and work downtown, you better expect a house there to be up to $160,000 cheaper than the equivalent house within walking distance just to compensate for the hard driving costs. ”
So unless you’re looking for something like a 400 square foot condo, buying in Sooke will likely save you a bundle even after accounting for the cost of commuting. And you cannot equate commuting time with work. Most people actually like driving.
http://www.visualcapitalist.com/canada-u-s-banking-differences. Interesting difference in leverage between the sectors. “Presented by RBC” made me laugh though.
Damn. Should not have renewed our mortgage early: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/variable-mortgage-rates-1.4666867
I mentioned this as a mitigating factor a while back but can’t remember if there was a response. If bond market goes up but Canada doesn’t raise rates, more people could just go to variable.
According to this Canadian study people in small towns and rural areas are happier.
But the happy characteristics include a small mortgage AND a short commute. So moving to Sooke might be good, but not if you have to commute to Victoria.
Yeah I would recommend people read “Your money or your life” and look up the concept of real hourly wage. https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/12/18/your-money-or-your-life/
Autonomous cars are already here. But widespread sales to consumer of fully driverless cars (door to door) are 10 years or further away,
Right, and it depends on how you define the value of the time. You could define it as “I could use that time to earn more money” or you could define it as “my leisure time is worth this amount”.
Yes I didn’t get into the marginal cost of driving electric (which I also do). CAA puts the marginal cost of driving electric at 5 cents/km which is about a quarter of the gas cost. Seems about right.
I drive all the way out to Sooke and all the way back to Victoria for a total cost of $1.75 in electricity with my chevrolet Volt car. (That doesn’t include the cost of the car but I would own a car in either case anyway.) The government gives people $6,000.00 plus $3,000.00 to crush their old clunker car if they buy an electric car.
Also: Autonomous cars are only five years away. ( Let’s say seven years). The commute time will no longer be stressful or time wasted as people could lie back and have a nap or get work done as they get taken door to door. I believe that our cities shape is going to change dramatically as people start to move back out to the suburbs. (This does not even mention the fact that they are already starting to use autonomous drones in countries such as Dubai.) Does anyone really believe that people will continue to spend $500,000.00 + for a tiny, stuffy, cramped box in downtown when they will soon be able to live in a full sized, inexpensive, new home with a yard for their children on the outskirts of our major cities….with a painless commute? (if they even have to go into the city at all because of new 3D virtual reality developments on the cusp of being used.)
Electric cars are here….. right now. I love our Volt. It’s cheaper for me to take the car than to take the bus to Sooke. (It costs me $5.00 bus fare to go to Sooke and back. The Volt costs me $1.75) The cost of maintenance of the car is another major savings and an electric car lasts twice as long as a conventional car because there are fewer moving parts.
I’ve always wondered why people dismiss their commute time. An hour commute means you’re working 10 hour days. A 50 hour work week that you’re getting paid 40 hours of means a 20% pay cut on a $/hr basis. That’s before considering just how annoying it is. I think people tell themselves they enjoy the alone time as some kind of suburban confirmatory bias. Of course, I’m also ruined for perspective on these things. This morning I commuted from my bedroom to my living room.
Leo S,
Perhaps it would be more accurate to minus the ammount that would be taken out as income tax for the commuting time.
Many people do not have the option to work that extra hour at work so commuting time to them may not worth as much as working time.
And, not everyone that want a home with large yard in a quiet neighborhood are fortunate enough to get a house in the Uplands, therefore they make the sacrifice by living out in the suburbs for their loveones.
IMHO, the above factors are just as important as financial in the decision of purchasing a home.
Marko Juras,
The people I’m up against are Keycorp Development and C1 Contractors.
I thought the same as you at first that the surveyors would have things mark out correctly, however it wasn’t so when I checked my existing house drawings (drawings was for finacial loans and insurance purposes only, and an old copy of the strata development prints).
I got the property resurveyed with land certifcate fillings with the government for just shy of $5K as per my current laywer request (surveyor was JE Anderson & Associates).
So far I paid my lawyer $1000 and it seems as if he doesn’t do much for me, hence I’m thinking of looking ofr another laywer.
PS. I would love to hear any suggestions that you may have since seemed to have knowledge in this matter. Thanks