March 19 Market Update
Weekly sales numbers courtesy of the VREB.
| Mar 2018 |
Mar
2017
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Wk 1 | Wk 2 | Wk 3 | Wk 4 | ||
| Unconditional Sales | 72 | 235 | 401 | 929 | |
| New Listings | 104 | 424 | 723 | 1217 | |
| Active Listings | 1434 | 1627 | 1684 | 1556 | |
| Sales to New Listings | 69% | 55% | 55% | 76% | |
| Sales Projection | — | 761 | 743 | ||
| Months of Inventory | 1.7 | ||||
Sales are off 20% from the pace of last year, which is where they have been for most of 2018. The decline is pretty evenly split between condos and single family, so there really isn’t a weaker type of property right now.
Condo sales and new listings
Single family sales and new listings
However what we are not seeing yet is an increase in new listings. If people are worried about the spec tax or the market topping out, it hasn’t shown up in more properties hitting the market yet. New listings are tracking the same rate as last year, which is quite low historically speaking.
However the decreased sales levels are finally making themselves felt in terms of increasing inventory. After months of no movement there, we are now moving upwards compared to last year and sit at 5% more inventory than the same time last year. It’s not much, but it’s a start.
The market overall appears pretty steady so far. The normal spring surge is coming in much weaker than in previous years, but overall condos are still selling relatively promptly (median of 10 days to sell) and single family at a slower but still healthy 15 days to sell. It appears that this is enough to keep prices where they are, but as measured by sales/assessment ratio they are no longer increasing.
OSB is great in dry climates. One advantage of OSB against plywood especially in dry climates is that plywood can delaminate causing squeaks. Agree though, you do not want to use it in areas potentially vulnerable to moisture.
“Wood I’s” (2×3 joists with OSB flange) are a big concern for fire departments as they create very unsafe conditions by rapidly deteriorating in a fire preventing access into the building. On the plus side they are very light, easy to handle and can span great distances.
I didn’t quit Facebook I just don’t go there anymore. It’s a cesspool. Sold most of my shares already. Might dump the rest just because there is little doubt it’s evil….
One of the things with OSB in combination with a super technical building envelope is it’s unforgiving. Sure it might not be so full of formaldehyde anymore (maybe) but it can’t take moisture. So any mistakes made in the envelope will mean greater problems. It’s only plus is it’s cheap and theoretically green as it uses waist wood. Anyway I would expect it in inexpensive house building but multi million dollar homes? Nope….
Why not? I-joists seem to be better in almost all respects. The only major negative I know of is fire protection, and perhaps an argument could be made for some off-gassing.
Nice to see some of the numbers we discuss here getting tossed around there as well. The 22% buying a second home is still shockingly high to me
Nothing to do with housing but I enjoyed Lisa Helps’ article on why she is quitting Facebook. Great to see society waking up on this front https://lisahelpsvictoria.ca/2018/03/22/why-im-quitting-facebook/
I actually had to google OSB to find out exactly what it is. Basically, discouvered that it is what we used to call flake board. I do sometimes wonder how some of these new built houses are going to fare fifty years from now.
OSB is OK. I lived near an OSB plant and saw it used everywhere. Newer OSB has improved a lot, but it still does not deal with moisture as well as plywood. In an interior climate where it is dry, you can get away with more mistakes than you can here.
Also, in a modern tight building, there is not nearly the same waste heat and air travelling through the walls to dry them out after leaks.
Personally, I wouldn’t use OSB for anything (not even I-Joists) in a house for myself. However, all of you should use OSB so that the price of plywood doesn’t keep going up for me.
Many engineered wood products are cool, but you have to know what kind of wood goes into your products.
“publics opinion based off Facebook comments”
Should have read as based off millenials, since social media it is their source of information.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155963286954713&id=50465429712
I find it interesting to read the general publics opinion based off Facebook comments on news posts. Sometimes they are rediculous but lately there sure seems to be a lot more support for the speculation tax vs the multiple owners and people from Alberta complaining. It looks like that 80% in favor may be true.
One other thing I have seen is there is a movement towards trying to remove or change the spec tax directed towards local MLA s through email and online petitions. I see this through various fb groups. I’m curious what the outcome will be.
“it’s never leaving the BC government intranet”
It is possible that your website IP address have share hosting (multiple websites using one IP address) and the firewall is setup to block the IP or a range of IPs, such as drop all package from 146.66.67.*
There are way around it such as using proxy or VPN, but that could get you into trouble.
PS. I’m not sure if the practice of logging and monitoring the firewall logs still persist today or not. But back in the days that I was in IT, my team (contractors) coded and setup firewalls for the BC ministry of finance and ministry of health to monitored all in/out traffics, and anything that looked odd are automatically flag. Full quarterly report of traffics and usage are sent to the minister offices.
Government employees have spare time to surf the internet while at work? I am shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you.
In a previous life I worked at BC Rail. On the first day I was told of an employee who had bumped into his file cabinet while putting on his coat and noticed a glint of metal behind it. He pulled the cabinet away and found a dusty lamp. Not wasting a moment, he rubs the lamp and the genie with the statuatory three wishes emerges.
This was Prince George in January so of course the first is for immediate transport to a beach house in the Seychelles.
The new house is grand but lonely, so the next drearily predictable wish is for the entire cast of the Victoria’s Secret show to join him.
Last wish, he never wants to work another day in his life. Boom – he’s back in his office.
I used to think that was a bit harsh until I saw this headline a few years back.
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Rail+company+with+trains+still+employs/9050172/story.html
It’s not from The Onion.
I didn’t want to comment earlier regarding old built vs new built houses, but I don’t want the members here to be some what informed if they are looking at purchasing a house. There are pluses and minuses to both new and old, but IMHO new built usually are better than old, specially after they ironed out the leaky condo fiasco.
Old wood tend to warp because the requirement isn’t as stringent as today. Now we have engineered finger joined studs that are more dimensional stable for framing and higher quality construction tend to use steel studs or at the very least steel studs for framing windows and doors.
It was the wild West prior to 1986 building code so houses that are built before that may not be up to today standard, and the worst that tend to be over looked was perimeter drainage. Orangeburg sewer/drainage piping, big-O piping, poly-B water piping, aluminum wiring, 100 amp electrical service, post and nob wiring, inadequate power and undersized wiring (specially for kitchen and living room), poor insulation, and poor ventilation are just a few that I can call of the top of my head.
We built in town, but if we had done so rurally where there are fewer constraints we would definitely have done something like this. Instead of trying to coordinate myriad tradesmen someone drops this kit off at your property and will even slap it together for you if you like.
https://bonestructure.ca/en/portfolio/project-15-662/
@Sidekick, also symbolic (although I don’t have any OSB). Prefab is the future. I almost did Raycore panels for my roof…. also looked into prefab. My lot made too much custom as well as the fire regs. Lots of interesting prefab outfits out there.
Very slow market? We bought our current house in Feb 2009, after it sat for 4 months. It is a nice MCM style house and total rebuilt. The price after two drops was reasonable for the market so there were multiple interested parties then (so we were told ). We got it with $10K off asking and no condition.
Hey don’t blame the OSB, blame the builders. OSB used in lots of cool stuff: https://vimeo.com/200481533
@infrequent, nothing against them, I have them in my house. It’s more of a thing against mostly pot lights, everywhere on a 4’ grid. It’s done like that because it’s cheap and requires no design. So…. I would expect more from a 2 million dollar house is all. That Dean Park house had some soul to it.
Yup our house sat for at least a month before we even bothered to look at it. Then took our time negotiating. Not another soul was interested in Gordon Head SFH at that time.
I don’t mind some deciduous trees shading my house as they let more light in during winter when I need it and block some in summer. But the backyard I want as much sun as possible for my veggie garden and to encourage the kids to play outdoors.
“Did some more investigating and this site is indeed blocked from at least some BC government networks. A bit odd since they don’t block other non-work sites but nothing I can do on this end.”
They must be on to those BC government workers who moonlight as an agent. Someone (Marko?) mentioned once they knew of many doing the side hustle from the tax payers offices.
@dasmo
Is there some widespread bias against pot lights I’m not aware of? No horse in the race, just curious.
In a really slow market nice houses sit unless it’s a fire sale price. Most people forget what a truly slow market looks like.
Need to know the impact of housing policy on local markets. Research to defend against potential legal challenges to legislation change. Victoria knowledge for issues like homelessness and affordability. Might be harder to justify if you are in forestry…
What is govt policy for accessing sites for personal use when on break?
Eh, comments take 5 minutes to review and even less to type most of the time. Everyone has sites they go to while they’re at work I guess. I agree the optics aren’t good but practically, it varies. If it effects performance, it’s no good. Otherwise, who cares. I remember one of the best admins I ever had was always on Facebook organizing her after-work football stuff. But her work inbox was always low despite constant pressure, her response time was amazing and she did the work of two departments when other admin staff were down. Others devotedly look at spreadsheets all day, but can’t get you a plane ticket if they had a month warning and their life depended on it. Kind of person dependant.
Well if someone wants to put in a request for a tech to look into it that would be cool 🙂
Now to think of a reason why this site is required for your work haha.
Weird.
I have to use a different network now too. Funny, I know one guy from Transportation and another from ISB and they were mentioning a short while ago they can’t get on either. Almost all the workstations use the same network, so anyone regardless of building all goes through the same gateway.
The latter guy I know is a good friend of mine and one of the senior techs that manage all IDIR accounting and account access for the entire PSA. I asked him about this today. BCGOV workstations will advise the end-user if the site has been blocked, and HHV has not been blocked or even put on a watch.
Yup, DNS resolves ok then it does three hops to vanrc005.lan.net.gov.bc.ca and after that everything times out. So it’s never leaving the BC government intranet.
QT, it depends if you feel that borrowing money for 2nd property ownership is the primary way that middle class people should become wealthy people? Isn’t that exactly the problem with our housing market?
The flip side is that we are allowing upper-middle class people to become wealthy using risky debt, with the young and lower-middle class not being able to afford a house at all.
I don’t blame anyone who has had their net worth rise, but the whole point is that housing is not something we should treat like a stock market.
Trees are nice to have, but the downside is higher maintenance. I the last 3 years I cut down 11 trees (1′-3′ diameter) in my yard, because fallen branches and needles ruined my gutters even those I clean the gutters twice a year.
“forcing larger down payments (40% to 60%) on 2nd properties (or any non-primary residence properties) would cool a lot of irrational speculation”
An interesting concept, but IMHO it lead to separation of the middle class vs the wealthy even wider.
Interesting idea. That would certainly force people to do more than just talk.
I still think other kinds of controls on 2nd properties might be just as effective and less punitive. I don’t think the province has the legal standing to regulate banks, but forcing larger down payments (40% to 60%) on 2nd properties (or any non-primary residence properties) would cool a lot of speculation, without hitting people who own holiday cabins handed down through the family.
It would have the beneficial side effect of reducing the insane debt loads people are taking on.
Did some more investigating and this site is indeed blocked from at least some BC government networks. A bit odd since they don’t block other non-work sites but nothing I can do on this end.
Perhaps, some department firewall is blocking siteground ip 146.66.67.61
The user can try TRACERT househuntvictoria.ca (or 146.66.67.61) in command prompt (Windows), or TRACEROUTE in Linux/UNIX from their terminal to see where the blockage is.
Our backyard is partially sunny. There are trees but not high enough to make it always shady and only on the neighbours’ properties.
This is a perfect mix between sun to enjoy and shade to prevent it from being too hot.
The only downside is too much shade for solar panels.
@Leif
Our back deck only gets morning sun and I prefer it (except that it seems to need more cleaning as it stays wet more). Between kayaking, cycling and golfing I spend enough time in the sun and prefer to sit in the shade at home.
@josh
Are you getting on 118 Rendall St in James Bay 😉
I always wonder if anyone can leave anything in there yard downtown with all the crack heads everywhere. Honestly for those moving here go wander a while around this beautiful town. If I was downtown I would love to have a nice backyard patio setup but I dont know how it would not be robbed unless you put in a high fence entirely around your property. I would assume the closer to the water in James Bay and Fairfield might not be as effected as Fernwood, Quadra and Burnside.
With regards to Dean Park there were some decent homes last fall it seemed but at that point we were not decided on the area. We enjoy the Peninsula and already live out here but were originally looking more in the core. Some one the more recently places I have seen posted seem to be overpriced but they have been selling. Maybe people are finally being pushed out there. It seemed to me that the Peninsula did not attract nearly the number of people to open houses etc compared to the core.
With regards to Dean Park though I find it really depends on what you want. For us sun is a massive factor and I always wonder if anyone really cares about sun when they buy? Dean Park can be a very dark place depending on where your located.
Do people enjoy sitting in the sun afterwork or on a weekend? Sunny backyards are the first thing I look for when we have been house hunting. Since houses can only be setup in so many configurations it usually means over 50% of the homes out there do not fit our criteria right off the bat.
What I always wonder is to the other 50% that buy the homes with no sun in the patios and back yards do you enjoy the sun or just dont care?
Did some more investigating and this site is indeed blocked from at least some BC government networks. A bit odd since they don’t block other non-work sites but nothing I can do on this end.
Hi Grant,
Good and reasonably priced houses always go very fast, even in a regular/slow market. So once you check the areas out and are sure about them, it would be good to be prepared beforehand, say have finance, house inspector, lawyer, realtor (if you want to use one) setup and ready to go and can act fast, especially if you are from out of town.
Just to give you a real example of how we (not related to housing profession, but done multiple house buy/sell by self/owner before) helped a friend family from Calgary bought a solid house here in 2015:
Our friends (had no buyer agent) saw the house online on listing day 1, told us that morning. We went there for a quick check to make sure it is okay, and asked them to fly in next morning. Then we viewed the house with an inspector together. By that afternoon, the house was theirs and the listing agent agreed to pay their air tickets for the trip. Note it was an estate sale, there were multiple offers, our friends’ offer matched the top bid price and had no condition.
1958 Barrett looks pretty cool. Better value than a new build for over 2 million built out of OSB with pot lights everywhere….
@Grant
Saanich Peninsula Hospital is best kept secret. Costco is opening in Sidney in 2019 iirc. Lots of backroads in case #17 is jammed.
@Grant.
FYI it sold for $1,000,000. Well… 999,900…
In this case, after commission, the seller would get $574,000 from offer #1, and $577,500 for #2 which is $3,500 more than #1?
If the listing agent explains the numbers clearly to the seller, I would think the average seller would go for #2?
In a multiple offer situation, yes. However, if the house is on market 30 days, for example, and you can present the seller with only one option….offer #1 would be accepted way more often. It is tough for people to get past the number on the offer.
Anyone know of any condos in Victoria allows businesses in them? I’m assuming some condos don’t have a bylaw about it, others ban businesses, while others delineate specifically which type of businesses are allowed? Thanks!
There are a few in Chinatown. You have other stuff scattered elsewhere too like the three townhomes at the front of the 834 at Live/Work.
Right now you could also buy a commercial unit + a studio at the Jukebox for around 650kish. Gives you a bit more liquidity with two titles.
US rates heading up, way up. Batten down the hatches and start asking the boss for that 30% wage hike. Toss in rising gas prices and Canada won’t be far behind.
Goldman calling for 7 more hikes over next two years. Do the math on those mortgages at 2% refinancing.
Fed Lifts Rates, Steepens Path Through 2020 for More Hikes
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-21/fed-raises-rates-steepens-path-of-hikes-as-outlook-strengthens
1958 Barrett is sold already – well, c’est la vie. The good news is moving forward I think we will probably focus our search in this area (Brentwood Bay, North Saanich etc.) as it seems to hit most things we’re looking for. Thanks again.
Here’s a thought that just occurred to me. The province could use the spec tax as a negotiating tool with the munis. If you want out of the tax like Kelowna, you have to take much more aggressive measures to improve affordability. Upzone, release land, reduce development waiting times, etc.
Dragon Alley that was a deal when developed. Live/work
There are Live/Work condos out there. I remember a long time ago “the reef” bottom floor units were marketed as that.
@Grant
A big difference between BC and Alberta RE practice is that here in BC they do not use the C/S protocol. This can be very frustrating for someone coming from Alberta who is not used to it. So, many a property will still appear to be active when in fact it already has an accepted offer on it. I experienced this when looking on my own and even I as a Realtor(Alberta) worked with a local realtor to avoid this problem and a lot of frustration.
Anyone know of any condos in Victoria allows businesses in them? I’m assuming some condos don’t have a bylaw about it, others ban businesses, while others delineate specifically which type of businesses are allowed? Thanks!
Interesting, I guess it wasn’t ‘lipstick on a pig’ . Good luck Grant – keep looking there’ll be more listings coming in soon as it’s spring!
Personally, if I didn’t work in town I’d def. consider living up that way.
Anyone know what 609 Oliver St. sold for??
SweetHome said: ”most municipalities have a GIS that lets you see the general topography.”
The CRD has a GIS map site that has all the basic data for the entire CRD. If you need specific municipal data then you still need to go to the municipality’s GIS site; for example Victoria’s GIS site is linked to their building permits.
CRD GIS Website:
https://maps.crd.bc.ca/Html5Viewer/?viewer=public
In this case, after commission, the seller would get $574,000 from offer #1, and $577,500 for #2 which is $3,500 more than #1?
If the listing agent explains the numbers clearly to the seller, I would think the average seller would go for #2?
And more, if the no-agent buyer in #2 is willing to share the $10,500 with the listing agent, that would be a win-win-win for all, isn’t it?
Marko
What was the advantage without an agent? Did the seller discount the price by the commission?
Maybe a couple of the experienced agents on here can answer this question. I heard that last year a lot of the offers were coming in with no conditions not even a condition for a home inspection. Is this still happening?
LeoS:
It sold. Why does that not surprise me? Grant, while the market is a hair slower than last year it is still my impression that anything reasonable seems to sell within a few days.
A lot of people find that renting here while looking for the right house is a real advantage. Neighbourhoods really vary in Victoria and getting to know the city is important if you are planning on being in the city long term.
Grant:
The address really helps. Water issues are often a question in Victoria. While everyone on this site touts the weather one still has to remember that this is not southern California and it is part of the “Wet Coast”. It rains a lot in the winter (less than Vancouver).
The drive into the city in my opinion is reasonable and certainly a lot better than the west coast. Overall traffic even during rush hour moves at a pretty good clip (but I lived in Toronto and LA so I am at times amused by what people in Victoria think is gridlock).
What I do know is that in the inner core a million dollars these days really does not buy you very much in any part of the city that you would be comfortable raising kids.
That house is already sold.
@Grant. I live near there and commute downtown. It’s 25 mins with traffic and pretty easy.
As you can see, You often get more value out here as people don’t want to drive. The assessments are typically lower than the value out this way as bc assessment increases haven’t been as steep (at least that’s how it seems – I didn’t query the data).
The area is awesome. Saanichton is great. Brentwood too.
Any of the potential water issues would have to be disclosed in the property disclosure statement which should be downloadable by any realtor.
Agree with other posters though. I assume this place will have an accepted (and near or over full price) offer by the weekend.
I would look at CRD Regional Map as well.
See link below.
Address can be search in Search Box at top right of page.
Click on Layers at bottom left of page.
Check Contour Box (gray lines are displace in meter).
Imagery can be turn on by expand Base Maps + sign, then clicking in Check Box.
https://maps.crd.bc.ca/Html5Viewer/?viewer=public
Grant,
Assessed at $747,000 and list at $975,000 (30% over assessed).
As a precaution, I would question if there were a leaky roof or flooded/damp house in the past, because it is bellow the road with driveway lead down to the house. Why the bottom flooring is replaced with vinyl, but the wall paneling and ceiling tiles aren’t update?
It looked like the upstairs bathroom & kitchen is recently updated, but the carpet is taken out to expose the old pine floor under neath.
Thanks very much everyone.. topography and water issues aren’t something I would have thought of. And yes, this is the property on Barrett Drive, #1958. MLS 388803
@Grant re: Dean Park House
Most of Dean Park was built in the 90s, but there are some older houses. I am not sure where the boundaries are (the house you mentioned may not be in it because it is older), but houses within the development have some restrictions similar to a strata (e.g. no rentals, and I think things like outside siding and roof type). From what I recall, they are not quite as restrictive as Broadmead.
We looked at this area, and some of the 90s houses were lovely, quality builds (even one with a stunning view), but I just couldn’t handle the drive to downtown. It is better than the Westshore, though, and if there is an accident one can usually get around it with a back road.
The other thing I found is that the lots slope because there is a mountain in the park (you’ll see Mt. Newton on a map), and it goes from mountain to sea in a pretty short distance. So, I was concerned about water in the basements. I talked to someone who lived there, and she said their house was fine, but there were many wet backyards. One house I looked at there had a mouldy smell in a corner of the basement and efflorescence on the wall. As Luke mentioned, it looks like the house you are interested in (I assume the one on Barrett Drive) has a bit of a retaining wall in the front (i.e. “below grade”), so this could be an issue. I can’t really tell from the pictures, though.
As I mentioned previously, most municipalities have a GIS that lets you see the general topography. For that area you can Google “North Saanich GIS” and look at the contours. Of course you’d still have to see the property to really know how things are situated.
The difference in lots in Victoria is still difficult for me to wrap my head around because I grew up in flat Saskatchewan. There was a swampy area of Regina that was back-filled, but that was nothing compared to the variations you can get here.
Well Grant, you didn’t link the listing and only said east of Dean Park. If you want more info, you have to give us more to work with.
It sounds like you found something outside of the Dean Park Estates boundary.
http://www.dpeca.ca/index.php/about/
Grant:
I am not a real estate agent and actually dont have any major interest in the market one way or another. But Marko is probably right that any well built house at a reasonable price tends to go in three or four days at most. If you are serious about the house you might want to try to get out here in the next day or so.
As to the area it is hard to give you an exact answer since you did not provide the address but generally West Dean is a really nice enclave.
We’ll be in Victoria next week so perhaps we’ll check it out.
That house won’t last for you take check it out. I live not too far away and I love the area. Thrifties in Saanichton is a ghost town after 8 pm and I like shopping in peace. The commute is a breeze compared to Langford. There is a 10 km walking track around the airport. Sometimes I ran around it and don’t run into a single person. You won’t have much noise population from airport where the house for sale is.
As for highschool who cares….I went to Vic High and it was totally fine. I am sure Parklands (North Saanich) will have a much stronger socioeconomic student population.
Once and future perhaps you are thinking of a different area? The house was built in 1971.
Thanks Leo and Luke for the info on the area, that’s very helpful. Does anyone know about the high schools in North Saanich?
As for that house, I’d never buy any house without an inspection, doubly so for something from the 70s. I missed the point about it being below grade and no, I hate repairing decks but the view may make it worth it.
We’ll be in Victoria next week so perhaps we’ll check it out.
North Saanich: Good area overall, traffic much better than westshore because there are a lot fewer people however this will get worse over time as they build out more commercial (Sidney Gateway: http://www.sidney.ca/Business/Projects___Initiatives/Sidney_Crossing__Gateway_Development_.htm ) and more people. Right now pretty quick to get into town and nice semi rural setting.
Heck you still see advice online to home sellers to increase their commission to increase the odds of selling their house. Like pay a realtors bonus to make the sale happen.
The whole idea is basically, let’s attract the least ethical realtors who will steer their clients towards your property for the cash despite it not being the best fit. Sure the agents could be handing that cash back to the buyers, but if that’s the intent just drop the price.
And yet every second week I get advertisements about some development offering me an extra $50,000 if I can trick a buyer into one of their units.
Did you miss the RE industry scaremongering? Apparently the spec tax is going to kill the market everywhere in BC because Josef Stalin aka John Horgan is scaring off all the investors/developers.
@Andy7
These are my observations after watching the market in the CV area for a year now. I can only speak to what is happening with the properties under $750k.
Most listings are reasonably priced and sell for list price or less, generally up to 15k less. The few which sell over asking rarely fetch more than an additional 20k.
Those listings overpriced will either:
1) Just stay posted until they expire and the relisted, often with a different cover photo.
or
2) Drop the price within a few weeks and as many more times and amounts as necessary.
1162 Booth Rd was a foreclosure. Required serious reconstruction or demolision.
Assessed at $279k
Original list price $350k
Many offers declined over 2 months.
Then priced reduced by 20k, still no acceptable offers so a month later further reduced to $323,800
After another month an offer of $316 was accepted. Court date set a week later. 4 more realtors showed up leaving the judge to select the envelope with the highest bid which was $351,100.
It will be interesting to see if this is an indication of the CV market heating up or perhaps just for more coveted properties (good locations with teardown structures)
When searching on the BC Assessment website, and you view ‘sample sold properties’, you find most selling prices tend not to stray far, above or below assessed value, unless a major renovation or upgrading occurred. Selling prices fetching amounts markedly over list and assessed values may be a new trend for CV RE.
@rush4life Confirming it stopped working for me at my bc gov office a short time ago as well. Also stopped working on my iPhone through the office wifi, although still works over LTE. So yeah I think they blocked it. Leo’s getting too close to the truth, shut it down!
I bought twice without a realtor. Didn’t know it was so wrong. Also didn’t have any issues. Haven’t bought in a hot market though. I just didn’t see what I would get with a realtor since I would be doing all the searching and looking myself anyway and I can drive myself around.
It isn’t wrong, but just so many non-serious buyers without agents out there that some listing agents won’t take you seriously. If you can show you are qualified and have done your research then it becomes much easier in my opinion.
A non-represented couple emailed me last year to view a home I had listed. We set up the showing and they showed up on time and disclosed they just sold a million-dollar house a week earlier. I looked up the address and the title on that sale matched their IDs. Next day they very strategically wrote an unconditional offer (customer relationship with me) on my listing and the unconditional component was very appealing to my seller and done deal. Basically they were very sophisticated buyers that could easily operate on their own without an agent.
I don’t want to pay for that high buyer’s realtor fees (I know it is seller that pays for it,but they factor that in the selling price). I thought if I don’t get a buyer’s agent, seller don’t need to pay for that fee and therefore can lower the price
Only problem is real life yet again. Let’s say we have a seller selling a 600k home and the gross commission is $21,000 commissions may vary
If you have two offers independent of each other (not a competition situation).
#1 offer: $595,000 – buyers have an agent and gross commission is $21,000
#2 offer: $588,000 – buyers have no agent and listing agent is willing to decrease gross commission by $10,500.
From vast amount of experience, the odds of offer #1 being accepted are much greater because psychologically it looks better (higher). Yes, that it the level at which the average person operates at.
Why do you think people are paying 30k+ to sell an average home in the core? It isn’t because it makes sense but rather the psychologically behind it (i.e., my home won’t get shown as much if I list with someone charging 20k, etc).
Well Grant – I found your prop. on realtor and it does look pretty good – amazing kitchen and bathroom reno’s – lots of decks if you’re ok w/ roof and deck repair? Below grade so it looks like water runs towards the house. Not too far off East Saanich Rd which isn’t all that busy but you’ll get some road noise. Personally, I would get it professionally inspected as I wonder from looking at the pics if it’s ‘lipstick on a pig?’ However, the price doesn’t raise any serious red flags compared to what’s on the market for a bit more around there.
I drive up/down to Swartz Bay quite a bit and as long as you time your trips around the ferry traffic you’ll more or less be ok if you must drive into town. It’s nothing like trying to drive to/from the Westshore but there’s a few annoying traffic lights where I wonder why they didn’t do a proper job on the Hwy 17 and build overpasses? The rush hour up there by the traffic lights has been getting worse lately. If you don’t mind driving it’s fine for a place to live and you’re even near the Bus Route 72 which goes fairly frequently.
Some airport noise but nothing major – Vic’s airport doesn’t compare to major world airports and I think more noise is heard over Sidney just south of Beacon Ave.
Great things about living up there include boating nearby, fantastic hiking trails in what’s basically wilderness, some incredible rural stores and ambience. Great pub and restaurant in nearby Saanichton and Sidney nearby.
The Dean Pk. ‘hood to me is kind of like Broadmead, maybe not as leafy and so not so shady. High end and rather greyhead but with a smattering of youth up there. You also have that fitness centre nearby, and it’s close to the ferry if regularly travelling to the mainland. Not all that bad if it works for you and you don’t ‘need’ to be near the core.
However, some on here are more ‘local’ than me as I’ve only lived here 2.5 years…so there may be some better advice on here.
http://scottliving.com/property/609-oliver-street/
So the new build w/ the sump pump at 609 Oliver St for $2.6m in South OB sold –
does anyone know what it sold for?
(my PCS doesn’t go over $2m).
@rush4life. Maybe the BC government blocked the site for causing too much productivity losses 🙂
Thanks for the heads up, looking into it.
I bought twice without a realtor. Didn’t know it was so wrong. Also didn’t have any issues. Haven’t bought in a hot market though. I just didn’t see what I would get with a realtor since I would be doing all the searching and looking myself anyway and I can drive myself around.
Yep, if you’re going to go the DIY route that means actually doing it yourself. Expecting to get a deal while offloading work to the listing agent won’t work.
Some refused to do showings at all.
I do 100s of showings each year. The odds of a buyer I am working with not showing up are so incredibly slim….maybe once a year? But I can’t recall the last time a buyer of mine didn’t show up.
When people (that aren’t my buyers) call to set up a showing they literally don’t show up 25% of the time…it is that bad. The other 50% show up and if they had a REALTOR® they wouldn’t have showed up. I.e., they have a dog and strata bylaws don’t allow dogs or they are allergic to the sun and if they looked at the floorplan they would have realized it faces due south. Then you have a mixed bag of 15% and maybe 10% serious and the odds of that 10% being interested is like 10% so .1 x .1 isn’t great.
I’ve gone to a strategy of replying with “please email me and we will set up a time to view the property” and I would say half the phones call don’t follow up with the email.
I am not saying refusing to show is right, but when you are waiting at 6 pm on Sunday for some random that doesn’t show up the next time a random calls you in the back of your head you are thinking….”ohhh man, not again.”
There is a huge improvement coming June 15th….
Currently this is how the listing contract reads
Gross commission: XXXXXX
Cooperating commission: XXXXXX
Come June 15th it will read
Gross commission: XXXXXX
Cooperating commission: XXXXXXX
Gross Commission in the event of a double-end: XXXXXXX
It will open up the discussion with sellers at the time of listing contract.
Very few REALTORS® will discount double-ending in this market.
It sets off a complication in that you have to make every other offer aware in writing (that you are discounting) and if you screw up and don’t you are likely getting fined by the VREB.
The reason you have to make the competing offers aware in writing is to give them an opportunity to increase their offer (now that they know one particular offer is being given preferential commission treatment).
I know it has been a huge pain for me in the last few years (I do a discount on double-ending). Sometimes you have 3 to 10 time sensitive offers and then you are trying to reach out to everyone. Not to mention that they aren’t happy now that they have to go back to their client and advise them that a double-ender is being given preferential treatment.
Always a good plan. I would never recommend submitting an offer without at least getting your lawyer to review it. Like I said, it’s not rocket science but you are opening yourself up to huge liability if you screw it up.
I believe I have addressed this below, however there are two issues:
The easy way is definitely to use a cash back realtor. That said you will notice most cash back realtors set limits to how much work they will do and still offer cash back (such as max number of showings).
Grant, I assume you are talking about the Dean Park Estates area. Others will be able to offer more info, but the area is decently nice. It is a planned development from the early 1990s (?) with fairly strict restrictions on building design, landscaping, etc.
Upsides: Dean Park/Mt Newton is great. Downsides: you have to drive everywhere, there are no sidewalks, it takes a bit longer to get into town, there is some airport noise, and some of your neighbours care way too much about the colour of your house.
If you like predictability, it is good. If you like freedom, it may be bad.
Approach the listing agent and ask if they can help you draft up the offer. Given that dual agency is going away, the listing agent may offer you a customer relationship. This means they can help you with the deal but do not actually represent you or your interests. Some realtors do this, others do not and they are not obligated to do so.
I’ve been doing this for 8 years as I had to learn what customer relationship was when I started mere postings…..it is really difficult as buyers still ask me for help and where do you cross the line. I’ve implemented a bunch of strategies over the year, but it is still super difficult.
For example, for strata listings (my full service ones where I am representing the seller) I’ll refer the customer relationship buyer to https://condoclear.ca/ and I’ll ask them to discuss any concerns they have with the strata documents with condoclear.ca directly.
Now am I acting in the best interest of the seller by making the buyer aware of condoclear.ca which might shred apart the depreciation report and cause the deal to collapse? My seller would likely better be served if the buyer had a REALTOR® that didn’t know about resources such as condoclear.ca.
In my perfect world there would be no customer relationship available for double-ending. Either you get your own REALTOR® or your own lawyer. This type of system would also vette a ton of tire kickers and of course everyone would still be able to sell privately to someone directly.
Actually Leo, I also am having issues accessing the site. It was around the time of the last weekly update (not yesterday but the week before). I was at work and just assumed you went to update the blog for the weekly update and had some issues – I got home from work on my own computer and it worked no problem. HOwever, when I went back to work and tried to look up your site (on my lunch break) the next day it wasn’t working. I have tried several times on both Chrome and IE from work and it times out and doesn’t let me – it always times out. I have to use my phone if I want to see your site now. I work for the BC Gov so it might be just my building or maybe not. Anyway just thought you should know!
Can the locals here let me know how North Saanich is viewed in relation to the rest of the greater metro area of Victoria? I’ve found a property just east of John Dean Provincial Park which almost seems too good to be true (at least in relation to everything else out there). Is North Saanich considered to be too far away from Victoria, or does it have something else undesirable about it? Airport noise or something? (it is just 5km from the airport) It’s assessed at 747,000, listed for just under $1 million.
Of course if you are just throwing offers around at unrealistic prices you won’t be taken seriously. If you are actually ready to buy at market value you should not have an issue. Like others have said, get your ducks in a row.
Real life problem is you have so many whackos that approach you without a REALTOR® that when someone approaches you that does have their ducks in a row you just assume they are crazy like the others. You can’t really make sure they are qualified because you are not representing them.
Compound it by the fact that in Victoria deposits are typically paid AFTER subject removal literally someone with a net worth of $1 and no income can make a conditional offer and have it accepted and then just bail on the conditions.
I have a great strategy I teach my mere posting sellers. When they are approached by a buyer without a REALTOR® I suggest a strategy of asking the buyer to have a lawyer draft up the offer which is a $100 to $250 investment…..you would be surprised how many so called buyers flake away.
Also, the REALTOR® the buyer is working with makes a huge difference in my opinion. You know some REALTORS® are at the point in their careers where the odds of them working with someone unqualified are very slim…..others will pick up whatever they can get and in my opinion the odds of a collapse are higher.
Let me clear up some confusion on this front.
If you want to make an offer without representation you can either:
https://www.recbc.ca/licensee/rules.html#section5-3.1 “
If you present a written offer for a property to a listing agent and the agent refuses to pass it on to the seller that is a prime candidate for reporting using the new anonymous tip line: https://www.recbc.ca/about/anonymous-tipline.html
Make sure your proxy options in advanced settings/connections/LAN aren’t enabled (where it says “use a proxy server for your LAN). But if other sites are working, that’s likely not it. In that case, it may be the IP from your device or network has been blocked by the HHV admin deliberately or automatically or, your ISP/employer (if you’re at work) has disallowed the connection.
It’s simple, If you want to be taken as a serious buyer then be a serious buyer.
Of course if you are just throwing offers around at unrealistic prices you won’t be taken seriously. If you are actually ready to buy at market value you should not have an issue. Like others have said, get your ducks in a row.
http://www.macleans.ca/economy/realestateeconomy/vancouver-real-estate-is-so-crazy-construction-workers-have-to-live-under-skytrain-tracks/
Hmm. A while back some people were having issues with Safari, so odd that Safari works but others do not. Never had an issue with Chrome before. I’ll check the logs
“…what happens when you try to access the site? 404? Hangs? Displays wrong?”
Spins, spins, and then shows a sad smiley and “This site can’t be reached. … took too long to respond. … err_connection_timed_out “
300 to 400 per square foot is the new norm in Victoria (if someone can give us a better guideline it would be good to know)
That is high end.
I think budget homes are pushing 200+ a sq/ft. What I don’t understand is how they are able to build homes so much cheaper in other areas. In my opinion this has to do with each of the trades/contractors taking more and more. It cant just be construction materials since they are pumping out way cheaper houses in other areas of NA.
Fizzy, what happens when you try to access the site? 404? Hangs? Displays wrong?
I’ve only ever used this site on chrome on a desktop (mac osx). No problems here.
An article today from the CBC regarding bond markets and interest rates. Looks like a sure thing that the US Fed will raise tomorrow. IMHO there is a small chance that the raise is by 50 points instead of the usual 25.
“Heavily indebted Canadians need to watch U.S. interest rate announcement: Don Pittis”
“For all the central bank’s purported independence, historically Canadian rates seldom stray far from those of the U.S. The Bank of Canada, like a dog on a retractable leash, can delay, but it cannot alter the final path.
For that reason the most important message from tomorrow’s Powell news conference will be an indication of how fast the Fed expects to raise rates.”
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/us-fed-interest-rates-canada-1.4567900
I also tried to buy without a realtor a few years ago; went to a couple of showings, and realtors were incredibly grumpy about it, asked repeatedly why we weren’t using a realtor, hard pressure to buy, etc. Some refused to do showings at all. The whole experience was very unpleasant. We ended up going with a cash-back realtor instead.
Interesting, if a seller’s agent can still get both commissions by offering “relationship” to the buyer, then what is the point of banning dual agency? Looking forward to your post Marko.
So it seems that if you are serious about buying a house, bring in an offer in paper (be it from your own realtor, lawyer, or yourself) would be a good idea. And don’t count on seller’s agent help unless you are prepared to outbid other offers and pay your share of the commission in current market?
I can only access this on safari (iPhone). Desktop won’t work, tried chrome and ie. Not just today, it’s been a while. Thoughts?
Let’s not confuse dual agency and double-ending a commission. With the new rules coming June 15th dual agency will be banned; however, collecting both sides of the commission won’t (you offer customer relationship to the buyer).
I’ll get into this topic more tonight but people that call with verbal offers are usually out to lunch (no offense to the poster below).
If you want to be taken as a serious buyer you hire your own represenation.
Looks like there’s no disaster scenario on the horizon taking place for Victoria just yet…
1161 Monterey Ave – just went for $1.3m which was $102k over asking. This was for a dated 60’s place of only 2126 sq ft on a 6000 sq ft lot, that needs lots of reno’s. However, it is in the ‘cache’ zone near OB village that for some reason along w/ Estevan people also go bananas for…
Someone paid $900k for that house b/c it was semi-decent 70s box, on a relatively quiet leafy street, and very centrally located in the core. That’s what you get for just under a cool million loonies these days… If you can still get a house for under a mill in the core, and it’s livable then that’s a good buy and there’s lots of people still looking in that price range.
Over time, as more and more people attempt to squish into the limited land space in our small hemmed in paradise city – then even semi-decent SFH in desirable zones (yes, even in Oaklands) will only get more expensive. Despite all the headwinds, it’s a no brainer 😉
richardhaysom@ymail.com
I don’t know what you mean, you just said they listed one million for both
Doesn’t work that way. When you list a property you agree to pay the listing agent a commission. The buyer’s agent gets paid out of that. If the property sells, the seller pays the same commission no matter what.
When I bought my current house, I did the looking myself, then went to a cash-back buyer’s agent who did the deal and sent me a cheque. Not in Victoria though.
AFAIK there’s no reason you couldn’t do that, but there’s a bunch of reasons why a realtor wouldn’t want to. Why take the hit when the listing will get the full price by the end of the week?
@Harp E
If there were two identical $1M homes for sale, side by side. One was listed with a Realtor and the other for sale by owner, what do you think the listed price on each would be?
Then what is that customer relationship with the listing agent to write an offer? If buyer don’t want to pay for buyer realtor fee, can’t they represent themselves and make an offer to the listing agent?
Harp
I think Freedom probably nailed it why the reluctance.
gwac
I don’t want to pay for that high buyer’s realtor fees (I know it is seller that pays for it,but they factor that in the selling price). I thought if I don’t get a buyer’s agent, seller don’t need to pay for that fee and therefore can lower the price. And I thought I can have a customers relationship with the listing agent to write an offer, if listing agent keep double commission and don’t represent me ( I know they are not allowed dual agency), that would defeat my purpose of not getting a buyer’s agent (to save on the realtor fees).
When seller’s agent can’t be dual agent (thus no more double commission?) , they probably rather work with a buyer’s agent to have a smooth/fast process, than doing “free” work for buyer and taking potentially unnecessary risk, especially in a hot/warm market.
Harp
What are they getting to write you the offer? Are they getting the commission or are you asking for that back?
Freedom
I know now they don’t allowed dual agency, but just like Leo S said I can have a customer relationship with them, I don’t know why they didn’t want to help me write an offer and kept suggesting me to get a buyers agent.
Leo, thanks for your full response. You made some good points, and I now have a better idea of where you’re coming from.
Barrister
Thanks for your options. I just want people’s thought on James bay. I like it close to downtown and close to ocean, but the lot size in James bay is a concern. I want bigger lot for growing lots of vegetables years around.
Started from Jan 15, 2018, BC Realtors will no longer be allowed acting as dual agents for both buyers and sellers:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/dual-agency-dead-1.4279995
Leo S
I have called several listing agents and made offers verbally, but many of them seemed didn’t want to write an offer for me and kept suggesting me to get a buyer’s agent or get a lawyer to write an offer. Do you know why? One of the listing agent even said that if he write an offer for me he would keep double commission, one for seller one for me.
For the process of making an offer, do you mean the buyer talk to the lawyer, and lawyer write an offer and send it to the listing agent, if this is the case, then listing agent don’t write an offer? But you also said listing agent can write an offer for the buyer? What is the correct steps/process?
Harp Echo:
Let me be clear that I am not knocking James Bay in any way and that there are a lot of positives to it to appeal to many people for very valid reasons. Hopefully I have curtailed the hate mail.
Mostly it is very much a more personal matter of preferences. I just prefer an area that is less flooded with tourists for half the year. I am retired so being downtown close to a job did not factor into my decision. With the increase in traffic over the last few years we try to avoid downtown as much as possible which frankly is almost all the time.Mostly we use the restaurants and the library and other stores in Oak Bay or we go up to Sidney or Brentwood Bay for an outing and lunch.
We prefer a larger lot than is the norm in James Bay since my wife is an avid gardener. But different strokes for different strokes.
You don’t need the form (Contract of Purchase and Sale) you can get the listing agent to write up the offer for you. In that case they will likely offer you a customer relationship (so they can help you with the process but they are not representing you).
If you want to go it alone,you may want to check out Self Counsel Press for information http://www.self-counsel.com Obviously you should still run everything past your lawyer before acting. While it is not a complicated process, it is not one you want to make a mistake on.
Yes. We got ducks in a row before calling. Realtor shown up and saw our places are ready to show (photos / floorplans printed out). We also nailed down which few places we liked to view and talked to our banks.
Harp Echo:
If you buy the lot for 750K it is going to depend on the quality of build that you put on it. I am not a building expert but what I read on this blog seems to suggest that a range of 300 to 400 per square foot is the new norm in Victoria (if someone can give us a better guideline it would be good to know).
Oswago has a square footage of 3200 but it seems to have a lot of glass which I understand really adds to the cost. At 400 a square foot that comes out to almost 1.3 for the build and 750 for the lot for a total of 2.050 mil. At 300 a sq. foot it comes out to 960 for the build plus 750 for the lot for a total of 1.710 mil. I guess you also have to add in the cost of renting while you are waiting for that year or more before you can move in.
Since I am not familiar with building cost maybe one of the more knowledgeable people here can help out.
Plumwine
Do you mean negotiate lower realtor fee with your realtor by suggesting to your realtor that you will do your own leg work if they lower the fee? If you do your own leg work, do your realtor also show you the houses and check all aspects of the house that your are interested in? How much was the fee you negotiated to? Did you get cash back?
Barrister
80 King George Terrace Looks like a flip to me, just checked on bc assessment, it says it was sold in July 29 2016 for 1750k.
I think 11Oswego is over priced because 209 onterio in James bay was reacently sold for 756k, 209 onterio has a bigger lot with south facing backyard, if you tear down 209 onterio and build a new house, it would be well less than 2 million (new house and lot) I guess.
May I ask why James bay is not your cup of tea?
Thanls AZ, did not know about the assessment site, good to know. I guess a 25% increase over the last two years seems to be both the norm and rather ridiculous when you think about it.
Hape – negotiate and doing own legwork.
Anyone else still surprised at this market(I guess I’m way too rational for an irrational market). Many places still going way over asking.
1460 Ryan St : 84K over asking
There are several others but I really don’t understand why someone paid nearly 900k for the house above.
@ Barrister
80 King George : 29-Jul-2016 $1,750,000
Not sure if you are aware but you can search for sold prices in the last 3 years on BC Asseessment : https://www.bcassessment.ca/
Marko
You mentioned that there was a deal that collapsed due to FB tax. Do you remember how much was that pending or listing price?
Harp Echo:
I dont usually follow James Bay closely but judging from a few recent sales I agree that it seems to be priced a bit high. But maybe not by as much as you might think. The house is only ten years old so I wonder what the cost of building it today would be. If it is fairly high quality you are looking at 400 per sq. foot. which puts you at about 1.2 million for the building. it is a small lot and I have no idea what a knock down in James Bay is going for. I know that for a segment of the market a small lot, with little or no gardening is appealing.
At one point in this blog Josh set out all the reasons that he and his partner adored living in James Bay. While James Bay is not my cup of tea I suspect that a there is a large segment of buyers that see it like Josh. Even in a major market correction I suspect that there would be a far lower decline in James Bay than other areas of greater Victoria.
If you had to guess what does everyone think this house will sell for in this market?
James
More on Uber
The chief of the Tempe Police has told the San Francisco Chronicle that Uber is likely not responsible for the Sunday evening crash that killed 49-year-old pedestrian Elaine Herzberg.
“I suspect preliminarily it appears that the Uber would likely not be at fault in this accident,” said Chief Sylvia Moir.
Herzberg was “pushing a bicycle laden with plastic shopping bags,” according to the Chronicle’s Carolyn Said, when she “abruptly walked from a center median into a lane of traffic.”
After viewing video captured by the Uber vehicle, Moir concluded that “it’s very clear it would have been difficult to avoid this collision in any kind of mode (autonomous or human-driven) based on how she came from the shadows right into the roadway.”
Moir added that “it is dangerous to cross roadways in the evening hour when well-illuminated, managed crosswalks are available.”
The police said that the vehicle was traveling 38 miles per hour in a 35 mile-per-hour zone, according to the Chronicle—though a Google Street View shot of the roadway taken last July shows a speed limit of 45 miles per hour along that stretch of road.
At a Monday afternoon press conference, Tempe Sgt. Ronald Elcock said that there were no signs that the vehicle slowed down before striking Herzberg.
Moir’s comments are obviously a promising sign for Uber, but they are not the final word on the tragedy. Investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board have been dispatched to the scene to collect evidence and make an independent assessment.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Exclusive-Tempe-police-chief-says-early-probe-12765481.php
Is 80 King George Terrace a flip? I vaguely remember it selling about two years ago. They are asking 2.3 mil and I am pretty sure it sold for a lot less a few years ago.
Josh
11 Oswego St is crazy, maybe they are testing the water of the market. I would ignore greedy seller like that, they are not worth my time looking at their house. Reasonable priced house will sometimes come up, we just need to be patient.
Leo S
Can you write a post on how to buy a house without a realtor? Can you post the link of that form for writing an offer?
plumwine
How did you save money on the realtor fee?
Ruin,
Why don’t your friend just negotiate the price down to one million? Tell the seller they just want to pay one million, take it or leave it.
This is not only fraud against CMHC and the lender, but tax evasion against the provincial government (PTT). And the latter does do audits if they see a recorded sale price that looks too low.
The story sounds a bit fishy anyway, it sounds to me that he could have pulled it off with an uninsured mortgage and a 2nd from the seller, but I can’t tell for sure without the numbers.
@Wondermention
Thanks for posting. If you have any other examples like this, please post. I’m curious to see if it’s going to get worse as the govt didn’t include the CV in the spec tax/ FBT area.
Wait til the rents start tanking Jerry and you’ll wonder why the local MSM missed the boat due to advertiser dollars. Maybe you should use google more and broaden your horizons.
$500 a month haircuts would put a huge dent in the property ladder king wannabes . Imagine Intorovert’s basement slug demanding a major haircut or he walks.
http://www.news.com.au/finance/real-estate/sydney-nsw/rental-prices-tumble-in-pockets-of-sydneys-east-far-west-and-north-but-freeze-elsewhere-in-the-city/news-story/327b89ed8b0d2450f5fed1f5be7ffe8d
My friend just bought a home for over a million. Due to his financing situation, he could not get a mortgage for the amount he required. He needed to keep the purchase price below a million so that he could qualify for an insured mortgage. The seller offered to provide a second mortgage for the remainder amount to keep the on-paper purchase under $1 million so that my friend could get the insured mortgage – but the sellers lawyer advised him that was mortgage fraud.
In the end my friend ended up purchasing the home for just under a million on paper – but issued a separate cheque for the remainder of the ‘true’ purchase price for ‘furniture’ from the seller. ( No furniture, material or service will actually transact for this cheque).
Crazy what people are doing to get financing to work!
I am deeply chagrined. Not five days ago I was going to make an amusing little post comparing Hawk’s output to Daily Mail froth but rejected the notion as being too abstruse for general consumption.
However, since the borderlands of taste and propiety are now in view, why not have a look at the Daily Mail website? You will see that Hawks are rather widely spread, although they have begun to coalesce at Fox News.
$915k
You paranoid pumpers need to use google better if you’re going to spin reality. The word is out on many legit sites.
Sorry you don’t like The Mail but that’s your problem. Aussie land is looking very weak as their bubble starts to leak bigtime.
Home sellers drop listed prices by up to 30 per cent in pockets of Sydney
http://www.realestate.com.au/news/home-sellers-drop-listed-prices-by-up-to-30-per-cent-in-pockets-of-sydney/
FWIW Leo your forthrightness and IMO lack of a bias is pretty obvious and refreshing. You needn’t worry about having to weigh every word you choose. And good luck with the monetization! I have experience with monetization of apps and websites and the insightful (and unbiased!) content of your posts coupled with the data aggregation definitely has value… even some of the commentary is useful. Your target market is small but a niche is a good thing and the saving grace is there is large chunks of money in all things real estate! 🙂
Does anyone know what 1704 Davie sold for?
Simplest IMO just change legend to be
● Oct 1, 2016 -> Mar 18, 2017
○ Oct 1, 2017 -> Mar 18, 2018
What’s better than living near a fire hall? Living in one.
Wheeeeeooooo wheeeeoooo
Correct. I agree it is confusing. Can you suggest a less confusing name for them?
@Grace
CV is definitely overpriced especially since there is plenty of land.
108 Croteau
Assessed at $289,600
Listed for $399,900
Delayed offers accepted after 7 DOM
Of the 5 offers, it went to the subject free offer of $476
Inventory levels are near record lows and this is problematic for buyers, which is likely the majority of the audience. Hence, an increase in inventory is a good thing.
However I also believe an increase in inventory away from record lows is a good thing for everyone. Sellers are often buyers and so market conditions where you can’t sell without being able to buy back in a couple months later are bad.
You may be reading too much into the wording here. When I talk about prices, I use the term “negative” when talking about a factor that will reduce prices. So in that case I guess I am biased against buyers, for whom a reduction in price would actually be positive?
As for my bias, you are right to assume I have one as does everyone. While I would like to make it relatively even keeled, I am politically left leaning, I dig deeper to find weaknesses in the market because I believe the real estate industry does enough coverage of the positives, and while my livelihood is not based on the real estate industry right now I am interested in finding a way to monetize real estate information and tools so that may introduce new biases in the future.
Another window will open, it always does. And just like the last time, most people will still imagine it is closed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-KhOAgPlQ4
Victoria plans new fire hall in downtown development
In a first for Victoria, the city plans to work with a private developer to build a new fire hall and emergency operations centre inside a mixed-use development in the downtown.
The partnership is expected to save the city about $12 million, compared with building a stand-alone fire hall, said Mayor Lisa Helps.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/fire-hall-1.4583262
You are correct. And there is certainly the possibility that attitudes of sellers and realtors change over time and more or fewer will opt to go for bidding wars by intentionally under-pricing their property. They were briefly in vogue in 2016 when the market was going nuts.
But overall the bigger influence on how many are going over ask is the acceleration in the market. If the market is at a steady state (prices flat, or increasing/decreasing at a steady rate) then it’s pretty easy to price a property more or less correctly using comps. If the market is accelerating or decelerating it is difficult. That’s when we see large changes in how many properties go in bidding wars.
We bought without a realtor in 2013. It’s not particularly complicated, found the forms online, wrote up an offer, had it reviewed by our lawyer and made an offer directly to listing realtor, giving them justification for the offer by saying they weren’t paying commission so could drop the price.
Here’s the thing though, I have no proof that the listing realtor ever cut their commission or even passed on my rationale to the sellers. It is quite likely they just cashed in on the entire commission instead. So in that case a cash back realtor might be safer in terms of getting that money back. YMMV.
Hey I was as surprised as you are when she said that. Had never heard of it but I asked her to confirm several times.
Thinking about it further now, what she said is directly contradicted by the general description of how variable mortgages behave when rates rise (https://globalnews.ca/news/3576341/mortgages-interest-rate-increase-canada/ ) so either the CIBC variable is different (unlikely) or the bank salesman had no idea how their own products work (more likely).
Amazing.
Sounds like Hawk’s kind of publication.
Wow, so even after a supposed crash prices still aren’t affordable!
Very funny Hawk. But if you’d traveled or lived in the UK you’d know that taking excerpts from the second biggest tabloid in Britain is not credible.
Here’s a more credible resource on Sydney’s housing market…
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/sydney-house-price-outlook-moodys-forecasts-2018-3/amp
Here we can see that after rising 80% from 2013-2017 Sydney house prices MAY see a slight correction of 4.2% this year. This is after rising 12.8% in 2017.
Stick to the facts Hawk. Dream on …
Hawk, I have no knowledge of the market in Sydney, but FYI, the Daily Mail is a tabloid that really shouldn’t be relied on for much:
“The Daily Mail is a British daily middle-market[2][3] tabloid newspaper “.. “it has been widely criticized for its unreliability, as well as printing of sensationalist and inaccurate scare stories of science and medical research[11][12][13][14][15] and of copyright violations.[16]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail
When a guy uses autopilot on his tesla and kills himself because it doesn’t recognize a semi trailer going across the lane, and the software is deemed to have operated fine, then something is amiss.
These are the same uber cars that were pulled off the road for being unsafe in California, but Arizona needs jobs so …
On a side note, I think the OFSI pre-approvals are still in effect until the end of March. Will be interesting to see what April looks like sales and listings wise.
Holy moly !! Can’t happen here right ? We’re different and special right ? Gawd, I betta fire up the barbie, mate. 😉
Hate to burst your bubble… Sydney house prices hit by steepest fall in TEN YEARS with some suburbs’ prices dropping by a whopping 30 per cent
Sydney’s housing bubble may burst with some prices dropping 30 per cent
The median house price has fallen to $880,743, its largest hit since 2008
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5513959/Sydney-property-prices-fall-30-housing-bubble-starts-burst.html
WOW DEB ! That was an amazing article.
Great quote;
“At this point, the house price is set by the greatest optimist.”
So far, but it is still early, the new taxes have not brought on a flood of new listings.
This article from 2013 might be just as appropriate now. I can not see the market taking off on another upward trajectory, more likely this scenario will play out across Vancouver and Victoria. You can blame the banks or the government but it is greed and speculation that is to blame.
The average Joe is happy to spend time improving his home and selling it or a modest profit if a larger home is wanted/needed. When the market surges like this one has over the last 6 years, people seem to loose track of reality and banks greedy for cash want to tie clients into a life of debt. It makes financial sense as long as the fine balance can be maintained. If the market falters people are still on the hook for years to come they are the last to loose out. Its so sad but it seems we never learn.
Interesting that mortgage comes from the French Mort+Gage=Death Contract, how appropriate.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/aug/18/default-line-extract-faisal-islam-housing
One big conspiracy I guess. The aliens actually killed the lady and smashed the hood of the trunk. The head alien is from Facebook who is stealing everyone’s information to clone people. Or maybe Google threw the lady in front of the Uber car to make sure they are number 1 in the self driving world.
Better yet the lady unfortunately walk off the sidewalk in the path of a car gong 40 and the car and or driver could not stop.
The police narrative.
Will believe it when I see the footage.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/19/technology/uber-driverless-fatality.html
She was walking her bike outside the cross walk. No narrative that is what the police are reporting.
http://business.financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/the-latest-self-driving-tests-halted-after-pedestrian-dies
Stepped onto the street away from the crosswalk.
That’s the narrative hey? Nevermind that they were on a bike in a bike lane.
@Penguin – if I am looking for a place for my family, I will spend more than 30 seconds on MLS.
Hawk is doing a great job finding price cut, he is more passionate than I do, follow him if you are shopping. Near the Speedways maybe undesirable, same argument can apply to Dean park – Airport / Gun range / 30+min from DT. People love it there.
I shared my story of building sweat equity, how we climbed the ladder, how we saved $$$ on the biggest expenses (realtor fee). The post is NOT against you or your age group, or being “lazy”. Stop being dramatic. Playing the victim isn’t good for mental health, and cloud your judgement and decision making.
Good luck with your family, hope you will find your ideal home.
See was J walking it seems. Why the driver and the car did not see/sense that will be the investigation before if can start up again.
Tragically a self driving Uber car just killed a woman pedestrian in Arizona.
Leo, how does one interpret “this year” and “last year” on those 4 charts? Oct 1st hasn’t happened yet this year.
Is the green line from Oct 1, 2017 -> Mar 18, 2018 and the yellow line from Oct 1, 2016 -> Mar 18, 2018?
James,
I think it’s a hemorrhoid not the dentures this time. Too much sitting there refreshing the screen all day waiting for Marko to post something about another fading number of over ask sales in an over priced market will do it. Just the threat of increasing listings and declining sales is making for extra therapy sessions in Langford. 😉
525 Transit seems way more desirable than 11 Oswego. I imagine one is priced to sell/start a bidding war and the other is just fishing for idiots, but the disparity in asking price / value still blows my mind. It also blows my mind that a 2 bed townhouse in James Bay hasn’t budged from $900k for months and months. They’ve lowered it nearly $100k before that. Their greed is astounding.
I’ve found in life, that the only way to be kind to English majors and people from Calgary is just to ignore them. Otherwise I’m liable to say, “You’re an English Major!” or “You’re from Calgary!”.
James:
Well lets be kind. I just assume that Introverts dentures are not fitting right and hurting and that is why he is so snarky.
Penguin:
I am probably a bit jaded when it comes to appraising traffic. Spent most of my life in Toronto commuting an hour plus.
The four years before moving to Victoria I was living in L.A. which is a totally different concept of gridlock. On top of that I am not out and about on the roads very much. It might be coincidence I have noticed in the morning a lot of traffic heading out to the west shore as well as traffic coming in.
There’s your first problem Barrister, you didn’t ignore the answers from Introvert.
Introvert:
Rather than being snarky, I was asking a serious question as to what stats we have as to density of employment in Victoria.
Telling me that 20,000 commute into Victoria is helpful if that is an actual number and if we can pin down what area in Victoria we are talking about.
Leo, your analyses and summaries tend to be fairly unbiased, except when you say stuff like this:
You mean that it’s encouraging for buyers, right? Are you rooting for buyers? Sellers generally don’t view high inventory as a positive, I don’t think.
Here is that bias again, in today’s update:
What sort of an inventory level are you campaigning for?
More importantly, why are you campaigning for one?
March 19 Market Update: still no crash in sight.
(From the previous thread:)
Barrister, I’m sure 20,000 people a day commute into town just for fun.
The numbers are still what I would expect. Someone I know just bought a house and also know many other people I know still wanting to buy investment properties or second houses. They are not the type of people who read this blog or news past the headlines and think there is no risk whatsoever because house prices always go up. I think there are still a lot of people out there who have been waiting to buy a house over the last couple of years and don’t really care about the risk of jumping in right now. It is so emotional! I really feel for these people and my friends who feel this way; they need to own a home to feel happy. I don’t think we’ll see much of a decrease in sales or prices for at least another year.
Josh I don’t pay attention to properties listed that high. What is it about them?
Take a look at 11 Oswego St and then at 525 Transit Rd. What the actual hell is going on with the asking prices in this market? Is it normally this all-over-the-place or is it a fad?
Barrister:
I think a lot of professionals work in many parts of the city. I don’t work downtown. The thing is to live in westshore and get to the airport, University, college, RJH, saanich etc. you still need to go through the bad traffic. I don’t think it cuts down much time not having to go all the way downtown as there are bottlenecks getting onto the highway everywhere (McKenzie, Tillicum, finlayson, burnside etc.). Have you driven through these parts in rush hour? It’s not great anywhere really. I bet Google has some good data they could sell you.
Plumwine:
“Penguin jumped in saying how shitty that place people are living and call me unreasonable/inconsiderate. wtf? lol!!”
Huh? I actually don’t know what this means
From Average Commenter’s description and the photos the townhouse does not look like a place I would want to live. Would you? Good for whoever finds peace living in a roomy townhouse with literally no yard and racecar noise. Just because in your opinion it’s good value for the structure/land doesn’t mean it’s somewhere I want to live. It’s just not somewhere I would raise my family especially with the long commute and when I can afford to buy and rent a SFH in the core. I would rather give up my career and move to Port freakin Alberni. I have nothing against Langford other than commute to my job. And good luck selling that townhouse in a RE downturn.
Your comments make it sound like you had a really tough go of the whole housing thing when you started out too. You had to make so many sacrifices but you were really smart in what you did to jump the property ladder. I never would have thought that staging/renoing your house might make it sell faster. You definitely had to get creative… These new homeseekers/millennials are just greedy and lazy!
Snarkery aside plumwine, I don’t know why more people don’t do what you did to sell faster/make more money. There are some nasty places out there that would look great cleaned up and a fresh coat of paint. It’s just too easy to sell your house that no one cares. I have a family of 4 in a 2 bed 1 bath house and it is great for now but we will definitely need more room in a few years.