May Market Update

The distinction between a PBR and a group of individually strata titled condos is the security of tenancy. The condominiums can still be sold and the tenant evicted on a one by one basis.

In the recent past there have been Investor groups that have bought multiple strata townhomes and condos whilst under construction to use as rentals. Units that can be sold separately. Unlike PBRs that will always be used as rentals.

Stratas are created when the Title is registered in the Land Title and Survey Authority. Besides Heritage Conversions the only building that I can remember that was converted to strata was the Mosaic on Fort street. However this building began as an office building. Both Heritage and the Mosaic were stripped down to stud walls and upgraded to BC Building codes.

I have a faint memory that the building has to be certified as new construction and having never been occupied. A new building is one where more that 50 percent of the building has been renovated. That’s down to the studs, new wiring, new plumbing.

I recall during one economic downturn, a developer wanted to change the condominium complex he had just built to an apartment building but retain the units as strata titled so that he would save on property taxes and then sell them when the market got better. That failed.

I thought developers sold the apartment building to a REIT or some other entity and they would not be dependent on CMHC financing. If there is a multi year covenant, they pay a penalty and move on. In Montreal, builders were supposed to provide a specific number of affordable units. They didn’t and just paid a fine. Big money people do what they want.

1. CMHC financing is contingent on it being a rental
2. Often zoning approvals are contingent on them being rentals for a specified period
3. Some municipalities (including Saanich) have bylaws that ban stratification of rental buildings if the vacancy rate is under a certain level (4% I believe for Saanich)./

Well, then I guess that’s that. It will just be the haves and the have not’s moving forward. If I were tenant I would be more happy knowing renting to own is a lot better than pissing your money away each and every month.

After a couple years of putting up with dead beat renters, and “keys for cash “ scenarios, the owners will convert the apartments to condos and get responsible owners.

I think that was their plan all along. It doesn’t take much to convert an apartment into a condo…Just change the name from apartment to condo. Or some rent to own scheme.

Who is going to leave a rent controlled apartment at a below market rent to move into a newer apartment they can’t afford?

No one.

Who is going to leave a rent controlled apartment at a below market rent to move into a newer apartment they can’t afford?

Right, but how many of those projects would be even viable as strata? It’s just a fact that the new construction market sucks. Some are switching to rentals because of increased profit, but many are switching to rentals because otherwise they don’t have a project that pencils at all.
I don’t know what that split is, but I don’t think it’s up for debate that if CMHC pulled back on rental financing we would have a lot less construction activity.

I agree there would be less construction activity, but I don’t know if this is the best lever to use big picture. CMHC financing is tied to the bond yield so as interest rates start to drop even if some strata become viable (that currently are not) developers will go the way of CMHC financing as CMHC financing costs will also decrease.

I don’t think they’re being pulled, the ownership market just sucks and presales are a tough slog so those projects are being shelved. If CMHC wasn’t singlehandedly financing most of the construction I don’t think those builders would be switching to condos and townhouses, we’d just be building a lot less.

I disagree, lots of developers are pivoting on the exact same piece of land and switching to purpose-built rentals instead of a pre-sale strata and government levers are influencing this. Government is making it more attractive to build purpose-built rental (CHMC financing, No GST, etc.) and less attractive to build strata (tenancy laws decrease investor interest for example, etc.). In my personal situation I don’t even have an option, Colwood forced a rental covenant on my building as part of the rezoning.

I do think purpose built rentals are very important in the marketplace; however, in my opinion government should be applying policy to increase construction across the board, like I don’t know cutting bureaucracy bullshit instead of making one type a bit more attractive to build versus another type.

I hope in 10 years people aren’t complaining on Reddit how there is nothing to buy or is too expensive as everything built in the last 10 years is rental 🙂

I do think we need a ton more purpose built rental but if people think Starlight Investments renting 100,000s of units for the next 30 years to them is going to make their life better, good luck. On an individual basis I am still pro ownership and paying something off over 30 years.

That realtor is a saint – really sticking his neck out for prospective homeowners.

While the article definitely has a self-serving interest no denying that purpose built rental housing starts are being pulled from SFH/Strata. It would be nice if we could simply have more of everything.

SFH Housing starts
Warrantied and Owner Builder
2003 – 11,498 & 3,507
2013 – 6,536 & 2,067
2023 – 5,728 & 692
2024 – So far on pace for all time record lows on both SFH warrantied and owner-builder front.

Goes to what I’ve been saying on HHV for the last year, if I wanted a SFH and I could afford one I would buy sooner than later. Will be plenty of 500 sq.ft. apartment rental options going forward, SFHs to purchase not so much.

Zero chance of a new refinery. No demand since we have apparently stopped using oil and gas; investors have been scared away; way too many obstacles to success.

As I noted the majors decided to close down the metro Vancouver refineries because they found it more profitable to refine in Edmonton and ship product. Why would they or anyone else want to reopen them in the first place, given their investment in refining capacity in Edmonton, and the expanded capacity of Transmountain?

It has only been 5 days, lets see what happens!

One cut is not enough imo. I think once we see three more then we might see a decent uptick in sales.

Zero chance of a new refinery. No demand since we have apparently stopped using oil and gas; investors have been scared away; way too many obstacles to success.

The obstacles and consulting with all the “stakeholders” would probably take 10 years just to get the paperwork to build.

So instead we continue to consume like crazy, we buy products from countries with few regulations and then pat ourselves on the back for doing our part for the environment 🙂

After the BoC cut, realtors are like: HURRY, buy your house now, The prices are going to da moon.

Reality be like: Sales are down from 2023, which was one of the worst years, inventory is up 50% from last year, new lists are up by 20%……

Dockside was a polluted site, that may have been the reason for the delay.

BC on the other hand could badly use some extra refining capacity

We used to have our own “Refinery Row” stretching from North Burnaby to Ioco. The big flare at Ioco was a landmark driving into Port Moody.

Now only one left, now owned by Parkland, originally Chevron I think. The majors decided to refine in Edmonton and ship the finished product through Transmountain.BC also gets some refined product form the Anacortes refineries which are served by Transmountain on the crude side.

I believe there is a small refinery in Edmonton

Actually four decent sized refineries and a host of other petrochemical facilities in Edmonton and immediate area. https://www.canadianfuels.ca/our-industry/fuel-production/. Most of it between Edmonton and Fort Saskatchewan and a few facilities further out

BC on the other hand could badly use some extra refining capacity as we are prone to swings in fuel prices based on transportation bottlenecks and happenings at Washington state refineries.

Many people wonder why we don’t do more oil refining in Canada. As I understand the problem, crude breaks down into many products so if you want gas or diesel you get all sorts of other by products. To be successful in the refining business you need markets for all these by products. Huston Texas has a huge plastics industry that is co-located to their oil refining capacity. Throw in economy of scale and it is very hard to compete with the producers there. I believe there is a small refinery in Edmonton and a producer of polyethylene near by. Not sure what other plastics they produce there or what they do with the other by-products. It is easy to build a pipeline to carry crude. It is not easy to build a pipeline for each by product hence the need for a local plastic industry and the associated market for the plastic you produce.

Who needs humans?

No one. You would be far better off dropping a couple hundred grand on equipment and keeping up with the times.

Automation. AI. People aren’t needed anymore, too unreliable.

If they can automate the vast network of the industrial oil sands in northern Alberta via AI , they most certainly can automate all three levels (municipal, provincial, federal) of the government via AI . What we need to do is refine our own crude into gasoline rather then sending it down to the states, then buying it back at value added prices in USD.

Automation. AI. People aren’t needed anymore, too unreliable.

I’ve heard that Alberta is producing record amounts of oil. The U.S. is the world’s largest producer.

Well, you started off changing this:
“if we are in an economy that is shutting down real estate” (my statement)

to this

“Why? You think everyone’s job depends on RE? Guess what, they don’t.” (Your statement)

Further to that, do you think I was suggesting that absolutely no first time buyers bought even at the peek of the 80’s crisis? I’m sure some did – I’m also sure it wasn’t a long line up.

I think the whole narrative is a lot of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

It’s a beautiful sunny day and I’m going to go enjoy it. I hope you do too.

Your recent comment was about the “lower prices” of “the 1980s.”.

What I said was “10+% unemployment in BC in the 1980’s and there were still first time buyers. Just at lower prices.”

Lower prices than when? Well than when unemployment was lower before the bust, of course. Perhaps you didn’t notice that I was replying to someone who claimed that first time buyers would be shut out after a bust due to high unemployment.

From my memory , 81 hit the fan seemed every second house was for sale and people losing their jobs on tv . Having said that by expo 86 things had already been much sunnier. The 90s was worst decade of nothingness

And who exactly said it was? I have always referred to the early 80’s bust, in which prices declined 35% nominal and 50% real from peak. That’s a big deal. Particularly for the previous owners of the foreclosed house that I bought.

Your recent comment was about the “lower prices” of “the 1980s.”. Which seems an inaccurate way to describe a decade (1980s) where prices more than doubled (2.7X) , and rose the most % of any of the last 4 decades. But yes, I agree with you that there was a price bust in the early 80’s.

Patriotz: “10+% unemployment in BC in the 1980’s and there were still first time buyers. Just at lower prices.”

48 unit apartment = 48 potential drug addicts. Good luck.

These people must know going in that there is no coming back, that’s a given, everyone knows opioids will destroy you.

dont forget where interest rates were in the 80s

And who exactly said it was? I have always referred to the early 80’s bust, in which prices declined 35% nominal and 50% real from peak. That’s a big deal. Particularly for the previous owners of the foreclosed house that I bought.

It was the over leveraged in the 80’s. It was the people that relied on real estate for a living that took a bath. Most didn’t though since we had a very robust natural resource sector. Forestry, mining, commercial fishing, oil and gas, etc…Even at 20% interest rates the majority made it out. Expo 86 helped too.

Not much point in being a landlord these days for lots of people. Get all the stigma, tax hits, interest rate hikes, and work with negative cash flow and no appreciation near term. Good thing that the federal government is putting 1.5 billion into coops – maybe it will create 3000 new units?

a nice five-plex character conversion in Fairfield

I would not take on a non-conforming converted 1912 house. Way too much O&M.

So in terms of nominal prices , the full decade of the 1980s was no “bust” in Vancouver.

And who exactly said it was? I have always referred to the early 80’s bust, in which prices declined 35% nominal and 50% real from peak. That’s a big deal. Particularly for the previous owners of the foreclosed house that I bought.

Dad: I should have clarified that none of my mortgages are at the start of a 30 year term so I’m past the earlier phases of higher interest. Like I mentioned I’m sure some will face this but even in your scenario it’s an extra $650 a month and with savings, lump sum payment options and wage gains over the past five years I don’t see how people won’t make it work. Sorry bears, even 2026 doesn’t look hopeful for your crash.

Frank: I’m also looking at getting out of renting but can’t do it all at once with the capital gains hits

And re: elevators. I have friends with one and it’s also glass like that picture so you can clearly see if someone is stuck. They also never take it together as a rule, but they’ve said as long as you do the maintenance you’re supposed to they’ve never had a problem. Funny they sometimes just use it to move groceries and they take the stairs.

Renting to tenants is becoming a nightmare. After 35 years of few minor issues, things are now not worth the grief. Renters simply can’t afford the skyrocketing rent, utilities, etc.. As landlords like myself opt out, I doubt there are many investors that want to take our place as the entry level costs are too high and it doesn’t make financial sense. My properties are basically paid for (I maintain as smallish mortgage) and escalating maintenance, property taxes, and insurance costs are exceeding even the ridiculous rents people attempt to pay. Housing is completely f**ked thanks to excessive immigration.

Speaking with a property manager today. Rents are up, but so are the bad debts as tenants are having problems making the rent payments on time.

I’ll ask the question again.
As a seller, I can negotiate my agent’s commission.
Understood.

But as the seller, I also need to compensate the buyers agent.

How much is that?
Is it a % of the seller’s commission? Or is it something else? Is there a “standard” such as 3% of first $100k + 1.5% of the balance type implied fee?

Imagine there are concerns about maintenance. If it breaks down are you left stuck for days.

Good point. Hopefully they have some plan B built in to the elevator that gets someone out of a stuck elevator in their home. Given that the typical customer is an elderly person with mobility problems, often living alone, I would hope that they’ve got a solution for that. Like a panic button (or cellphone) with battery backup.

12% unemployment means 12% of the people wanting to work that are actively looking for work. If you’re not looking for work but unemployed, you’re not counted in the 12% unemployed. So there are a lot less than 88% employed.

10+% unemployment in BC in the 1980’s and there were still first time buyers. Just at lower prices.

Vancouver house prices did well in the 1980’s. Much better than the 1990s and any decade following in % terms for example
Vancouver detached house prices more than doubled in the 1980s (+177 %). (From $90k Jan 1, 1980, to $250k Dec 31, 1989)
That’s a bigger rise than they did in the 1990’s (+56%). ($250k to $390k)

Same story for condos (tripled in 1980s (+200%) from $50 to $150k. And up only 27% in 1990s.

In percentage terms, the 177% rise in Vancouver SFH prices in the 1980s is the HIGHEST rise of the last 4 decades, beating 1990s (+56%),2010’s (+150%) , and 2010s (+74%).
So in terms of nominal prices , the full decade of the 1980s was no “bust” in Vancouver. It was more like the “Booming 1980’s – with the hugely successful Expo 86 (22 million visitors) in the middle of it” https://www.bcbusiness.ca/industries/general/the-booming-80s/

Attached chart shows Vancouver prices (dark blue = detached houses)

And, you’ll note my comment was “if we are in an economy that is shutting down real estate” not the other way around.

The first time buyers that are waiting for a crash will be switching back to kraft dinner.

Why? You think everyone’s job depends on RE? Guess what, they don’t.

10+% unemployment in BC in the 1980’s and there were still first time buyers. Just at lower prices.

Gambler, “Oh sorry, the implied bear narrative is that my mortgage renewals will cost more than my current mortgage payments and I’ll be forced to sell because I can’t afford them anymore. Layered on that is many will experience the exact same scenario and be forced to sell and by extension making it a race to the bottom to sell and there will be discount prices everywhere…” I agree with where you are going here. The other point often missed is, imo, if we are in a an economy that is shutting down real estate – short of a few wealthy holdouts here on HHV – who is buying these properties in a crisis downturn? The first time buyers that are waiting for a crash will be switching back to kraft dinner. Buyers will have to have cash in the bank which your average millennial bear does not, imo.

Maybe it is time to consider banning the practice of paying commissions to the buyers agent. In effect, it has produced a monopolistic system where for all practical purposes the vendor is forced to pay a commission essentially set by the Real Estate industry. Let buyers negotiate whatever fee structure they want with their agent.

Negotiating a fee with your agent is a bit illusionary when half the commission is virtually preset since it is paid to the buyers agent. And before someone argues that this is how capitalism works it clearly is not. The government controls and bans all sort of monopolistic practices that result in de facto price fixing which this clearly does.

Politically this would bring a howl from the whole real estate industry. So its not going to happen.

My offer stands on HHV ($5k upfront, full service, and seller pays expenses which are $500 to $2,000 depending on degree of media/size of home), but guaranteed no one will ever go for it.

Good idea. The problem of “ guaranteed no one will ever go for it.” could be solved by…

‘An alternative would be someone to offer same deal as above, except $6k flat fee, payable only when the house sells. Yes, if the seller agent get “fired”, the agent gets nothing. But that’s only if more than 16% of deals end up with no sale. Somebody firing an agent like that is likely going to pay more for a new agent, so they may think twice. At any rate, many RE agents have little or no clients, so something is sure better than nothing.

And the buyer agent should offer a similar deal. Flat fee $5,000 if you end up buying, paid by the BUYER, otherwise after a certain period of time (eg. 6 months) the agent bills the BUYER $40/hour for the time spent with the buyer. .if the buyer ends up buying, any amounts paid would be deducted from the $5,000.

With that system setup, the seller pays $6k flat fee seller commission, and $1 to the buyer agent, so total $6,001 commission paid by seller. The buyer agent gets paid by his buyers, who pay $5,000 under the deal described above,

And this is flat fee, regardless of home price. If a buyer agent refused to show the $1 commission homes to his clients, his clients could use a broker that did accept the $1 commission, in return for being paid by the buyer.

“Yes you missed “you still need to offer a cooperating commission”, which is what the buyer’s realtor gets.”

okay… i am in suspense. so how much is that?
is it a percentage of the Marko special “$5k upfront, full service” deal?
or something different? is this also negotiated?

am i missing something?

Yes you missed “you still need to offer a cooperating commission”, which is what the buyer’s realtor gets.

Of course you don’t have to offer anything to get a buyer who doesn’t have an agent.

Marko

i get the “My offer stands on HHV ($5k upfront, full service, and seller pays expenses which are $500 to $2,000 depending on degree of media/size of home…”

is that it? how does the buyer’s realtor get compensated? am i missing something?

Layered on that is many will experience the exact same scenario and be forced to sell and by extension making it a race to the bottom to sell and there will be discount prices everywhere.

Well if that were ever going to happen then it’s in 2026, not now. So bears will be waiting for awhile…

less due to paying down so much principle with low rates.

I ran the numbers and I paid down 12.7% on my principal over my 5 year term that comes due in August.

Maximum 7k on a sale for the listing realtor? Who wouldn’t take that? Like I said I’m loyal to my realtor but this is a hell of a deal. Is this for any property type?

Listing portion, you still need to offer a cooperating commission but heck if I am getting paid 5k upfront you can set that coop to $1

Is this for any property type?

Yes, but if you are a seller makes more sense the more expensive the property is.

Oh sorry, the implied bear narrative is that my mortgage renewals will cost more than my current mortgage payments and I’ll be forced to sell because I can’t afford them anymore. Layered on that is many will experience the exact same scenario and be forced to sell and by extension making it a race to the bottom to sell and there will be discount prices everywhere. While this is possible it’s unlikely. Like I said I did the math at a conservative rate for renewals (4.5%) and they’re all at least a few hundred dollars less due to paying down so much principle with low rates. I’m sure some will face this that are on variable and have been paying only interest, but I doubt it’s going to set a new floor on SFH. Just my opinion too of course.

I’ll give you $5k up-front at signing of listing contrat (for traditional full service listing} and I’ll pay for the photos/video/floorplan/etc., and you can lockbox the house

I would agree to list on this basis NP.

I’ve also wondered how the bears thought they’d swoop in and buy my properties out from under me and good to see others grounded in reality feel the same.

How were they going to buy it from under you if you are not selling?

I’d rather have that than any luxury agent that updates their instagram reels more than communicating with their clients.

Thing is some of those that update their instagram reels multiple times a day are very successful so it is a strategy that works well.

That doesn’t sound like much of a friend at those rates. My experience has been more along the lines of what Marko described as I’ve dealt with the same realtor for multiple transactions and have had everything from $1000 back to zero commission taken. I think they know I’d never fire them (mostly due to the competency and guidance over the years) but also just because they’ve become loyal to me the same way I’ve become loyal to them. I’d rather have that than any luxury agent that updates their instagram reels more than communicating with their clients.

Oh yeah and thanks for the comments on the renewals comments. I’ve also wondered how the bears thought they’d swoop in and buy my properties out from under me and good to see others grounded in reality feel the same.

These HHV stories of “friends” that keep popping up are absolutely mind boggling to me

I understand, it’s crazy. Would gladly use your services if you were up island.

But in your absence, I’m looking for what Realtors consider to be ‘normal’ or ‘average’ commission these days.

We are about to list up island. Our friend is a realtor and they are quoting 7% (first $100k) then 3.5% on the balance for their commission. Is that high? I thought 6%/3% was fairly standard.

A property sold last week in the Uplands for $2,700,000. It was first listed June 2023 for $4,980,000.

This one I assume? First listed for a million+ over assessment. “Luxury” realtor took the ask down by a million and a half.

https://sothebysrealty.ca/en/property/british-columbia/region-greater-victoria/oak-bay-real-estate/1405575/3550-beach-drive/

https://www.bcassessment.ca//Property/Info/QTAwMDBIUThSNA==

property sold last week in the Uplands for $2,700,000. It was first listed June 2023 for $4,980,000.

I get that it is pretty hard to value higher end properties, but it’s a bit mind boggling that someone lists for almost double market value.

Sounds like you should get her to call Marko and negotiate something between his flat listing and full service.

I won’t negotiate on higher end properties, odds of getting fired extremely high right now so you have to build that into your business decision.

A property sold last week in the Uplands for $2,700,000. It was first listed June 2023 for $4,980,000. The first agent got a couple of price drops then that agent was replaced then the next agent got a number of price drops, etc., until it eventually sold. Do you think the first agent was the problem or maybe it was just the asking price?

The problem is 98% of consumers have no common sense (and it doesn’t improve with high networth for some reason) and I work under the umbrella of a very small no-thrills locally owned brokerage. If I list a $4,000,000 property and it doesn’t sell in six months the odds are the seller fits the 98% mold and will be talking to a friend, family or acquaintance who will say “I’ve never heard of this Fair Realty brokerage, no wonder your property hasn’t sold, you need to list with Bob from XYZ luxury brokerage so they can fly in foreign banned buyers to buy your property.” Reality is Bob from XYZ luxury brokerage is using the same photo/video person as I am uploading it to the same MLS system, but people believe the smoke…I like to call it fog.

I eventually get the can and I am out expenses and then they re-list with Bob from XYZ brokerage from $3,500,000 and lower the price with him or her down to $3,000,000 and eventually sell for $2,700,000.

If sellers were down with giving me a $5,000 non-refundable “retainer” I would discount higher end properties, but let’s be real that will never happen.

People also talk a lot about saving money on real estate fees but when it comes to luxury sellers always go with agents associated with “luxury real estate.” That is why I am asking Barrister who he used to purchase, I am curious. I am betting it wasn’t Suzy’s locally owned 50% cash back to buyers brokerage.

This is for rental or primary?

Primary through TD. I am guessing banks are going to want to capture business from those people that want to play the BOC game going forward; therefore, they will increase discounts on variable to be competitive for this business.

Marko- Is that a fixed variable or open variable? The open variable was quite high. What term is the fixed variable?

VicRE: Can you clarify decrease the scope of the agent? At this point, I have told my neighbors daughter who is staying in the house since dad is moving into a nursing home to just have the agent do a single open house for agents and not bother with open houses, forget about fancy advertising packages of any any type other than MLS listing, have the house professionally cleaned and get rid of clutter but what sells the house will be price. Between deferred taxes and lines of credit and other debts getting the maximum out of the house is really important balanced against a limited time to sell. Any other suggestions would be helpful. All valuables have mostly been removed so showing through a lockbox without the listing agent present is fine with her. She also has a valid power of attorney and has contacted a RE law firm here. But at some point sooner rather than later she does have to return to Toronto.

I assume that the “top sellers” are not interested in discounting so I imagine the hungry young ones might be.

Decrease the scope of the agent and discounts will follow.

Does anyone have any insight or any experiences with this?

I think you have plenty of experience with real estate agent discounts, you’ve boasted a number of times when you bought you negotiated seven crates of wine. Perhaps you can share the name of the agent you used that was so amendable to such?

In light of the rate decrease today, what are everyone’s thoughts on the best mortgage products right now?

Personally my mortgage is coming up in for renewal in August. I am going to go with variable (6% or 5.75% depending on what happens in July) product that includes some cash back, and zero fees to convert to fixed. I wouldn’t worry about gouging you can just pay three months interest and go elsewhere, I would think the bank you are with would be very competitive to tie you down into a 5 year fixed and most banks you can convert painlessly over the phone.

and then I’ll just see how things play out with BOC decisions/bond yield.

Same bank offered me 6.47% on a one year fixed so the variable seems like a no brianer. It would appear some banks are starting to be aggressive/push the variable product again.

In March, I went from a 1.89% to a one year 6.49% fixed at RBC. The Homeline plan I have is essentially a line of credit secured by my property. They advised me that I can renew without penalty in 6 months, and that’s what I’ll do while rates come down. So in 3 months I’ll take out another one year mortgage that I’ll renew after 6 months. Not sure if this is available at all banks. The line of credit is only 25% of the value of the property. The open variable rate they offered was quite high, so I went this route. Long term fixed variable was lower, but you’re locked in.

Introvert! Haha. Love the blog and the long format.

There are 108 downtown condos and 417 rentals of all types within an 8 kil0meter radius of downtown for rent on Craigslist.

The average downtown one-bedroom condo rent is now $2,140 per month ($1,700 to $2,900). Two bedrooms average $2,872 ($2,550 to $5,500)

Lowest priced bachelor in the Janion at $1,550 per month

A three-bedroom within 8 kilometers of downtown averaged a ($2,550 to $4,500)

Really surprised with the range in rents. In general, the higher the rent the longer they have been listed on craigslist. Lately I have been finding Craigslist more expensive than property management companies..

So you and your wife plan to spend your retirement years in a 40m2 garden suite? I suppose that is fine if you plan to live majority of the year somewhere else. But if its full time, isnt that space a little small?

It has an 8′ ceiling height loft with very easy to traverse stairs with 7″ risers and 12″ treads that doubles the size of the space. The oversized (530 sq/ft) two bay garage in the main house will always be mine. I will never surrender that space. Under the 18’x18′ existing deck is another 325 sq/ft of added space to the lower suite of the main house.

I don’t know, maybe we will go for the lower suite in the main house.

This is what they really want. Its very important to have an architect involved. This is the plot plan…
It only cost me $600 for three sets of plans.

I would be mortgage free right now. But in late 2020 the 5 year fixed rates were at 1.86%. I refinanced 80k and built a garden suite in my back yard. It was free money. I couldn’t refuse. So here I am looking at another 5 year fixed in late November 2025.

Interest rate cut just announced. 25 basis points.

In other news with the rate cut, albeit a small one, is anyone questioning the narrative that seems to be everywhere about rate shock on mortgage renewals?

People will be renewing pandemic era ultra-low fixed rate mortgages over the next couple years. Even if 5 year fixed rates come down to the 3 to 4 per cent range over the next couple years (seems plausible), that’s a jump if you were previously at 2 per cent. On the other hand, after 5 years of wage increases, seems like most people will manage fine.

I never bought the bear narrative of rampant foreclosures, enabling the bears to swoop in and buy five of houses or whatever it is they think they are going to do.

I have friends that live across the CRD and they’re all pretty nice people, but what I will say is that people living in the core are more likely to go out of their way to criticize the West Shore and I see less of of that shade being thrown the other direction. Just an observation.

In other news with the rate cut, albeit a small one, is anyone questioning the narrative that seems to be everywhere about rate shock on mortgage renewals? I feel like the people pushing that boogeyman narrative online fail to take into account the current low rates and the principle being paid down. I’ve run a conservative estimate on renewals coming up and they’re going down in payment amounts.

Max , now is the time to borrow against your property and leverage up.

Elaborate. I don’t want a hopped up F-150.

Annual rainfall by city … Langford 45 inches, Victoria 24 in.

Amusingly, Victoria gets the same annual rainfall as Oakland. Just a wildly different distribution.

http://www.worldclimate.com/climate/us/california/oakland

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And congratulations Umm on the accepted offer! Wonderful news!

For me it’s retiring my parents early.

So does your dad still work for you, or no?

Buying back your time early in life is an achievement in my books.

For me it’s retiring my parents early.

Most people don’t get the value/joy they think they will from expensive depreciable assets.

I wouldn’t know!

Most people don’t get the value/joy they think they will from expensive depreciable assets

Money to buy a fancy new bike -> great

Time to go for a ride with the bike you already own -> priceless.

We all have access to past climate data AND future climate projections based on science. All at your fingertips. Now that is progress from the days when people could get away with saying stuff based on their random thought generator.

Which, if accessed, would show that the random thought I generated is a fact. I don’t dispute that the climate is warming, and that the heat waves we experience are likely to get hotter over time.

I get my climate predictions from the Farmer’s Almanac, it’s always wrong.

there is a time for toys

Most people don’t get the value/joy they think they will from expensive depreciable assets.

+1, based on my observations of constantly being in different areas showing properties, the average cost of a car is often higher on a street in Kettle Creek in relation to a street in Oak Bay. Drive through Kettle Creek sometime; loaded F150s, Teslas, SUVs, etc.

Here in good old Gordon Head, we have one 19-year-old Toyota and are a few months away from having a paid-for house.

The way I look at it: there is a time for toys, and it’s not when you owe $500K to the bank.

the average cost of a car is often higher on a street in Kettle Creek in relation to a street in Oak Bay.

Sure, but part of what you’re buying into in a place like Oak Bay is showing that you’re really not into cars. Goes for any walkable neighbourhood in larger cities. Whereas those in cheaper areas have more of a need to boost their egos with their wheels.

And you are looking a heat waves and cold snaps as regular events. Already here.

Heat waves and cold snaps have always been regular events here.

None of them are ostentatious

you can find the opposite on bear mountain folks up at jacks…..

If you are buying in Oak Bay, you are buying for prestige and you will find yourself surrounded by others that place a value on impressing others with wealth.

Talk about stereotypes.

What I can say as an Oak Bay resident is that I really appreciate access to the Oak Bay dump. Now that is a perk.

My neighbours are nice. None of them are ostentatious- they drive small modest older cars and do their own yard work like we do. If they sold their houses they would have their home equity, but I don’t think they are “millionaires” otherwise. In both of the homes across the street the adult children/grandchildren are living with their parents. I’m sure there are opposite examples to be found, and the same in many areas, but not what I’ve experienced.

I like Oak Bay because it is charming, quiet, safe, walkable, has little traffic, enough shops, is far enough but not too far from downtown, and has lots of parks and waterfront. Fairfield is similar. Oak Bay has leaned hard into stopping development historically so we’ll see what happens next.

a degree or two increase in average temperature

Northern Canada was 3 degrees warmer in 2023 than the 1991-2000 average. Quite possible the VI average temps will rise 3.5 degrees by 2050. And you are looking a heat waves and cold snaps as regular events. Already here. Average doesn’t help you when it is 40 degrees or more and you have no AC or -20 and you have electric baseboards and poor insulation.

https://www.bcclimatechangeadaptation.ca/library/vancouver-island-adaptation-strategies-plan/

Whatever , with todays cut and the boc saying more on the way , I too was thinking when are the banks are going to start to pump. They have been quite the last couple of years , but who knows maybe the fall market might be busier than expected. The realtors in this weekends opens will be pumping the rate cut

” I can’t understand why most people would like house prices to rise other than investors. ”
Because it is part of your net worth and most people would like to see it go up and not down….

Quite right, but I would say that if you want anything out of your house beside a place to live, you are an investor.

Now let’s see how the lenders respond to the interest rate cut? The rate cut will lower someone applying for a loan payment by about $15 a month per one hundred thousand.

With Oak Bay, you are buying history and name recognition that adds another 15 percent to a lot’s value over one in Saanich East.

Myself, I prefer Cadboro Bay, Rockland, Arbutus, and Ten Mile Point over Oak Bay as you get more value for the money.

If you are buying in Oak Bay, you are buying for prestige and you will find yourself surrounded by others that place a value on impressing others with wealth.

Umm really , congrats now u can ride the interest rates down

Bobby, lots of folks are hobbled with debt that are being slammed , the most vulnerable get hit the hardest when we raise rates to beat down inflation. Yes imo real estate prices will more than likely go up as interest rates come down , but then real estate has always just gone up .

I can’t understand why most people would like house prices to rise other than investors.

Because it is part of your net worth and most people would like to see it go up and not down….

We will most likely now see other countries move on interest rates in the next month or two . Sunnier days ahead for everyone , now what to do with mortgage hmmmm

Thurston, as I’ve mentioned before I can’t understand why most people would like house prices to rise other than investors. I hope for people possibly like yourself who are just hanging on with variable mortgages are able to get some relief but any future rate cuts are going to rely on US economic weakness and rate cuts. The rate cuts may come but will be due to continuing weakness in the economy which will lead to weakness in the housing market.

Nice to see the rate cut . We know what the future looks like going forward , it’s time to juice the market

Barrister, ask VicRe, but take his call with a grain of salt. He bet on the bank staying put today.

Anyone knows why Mount Douglas High School’s ranking is only 4.9/10 now?

Andrew Coyne of the G&M has put the case that WWIII has already started. The major powers are well aware of what a direct confrontation between them would bring, so they wage the fight on smaller fronts. Which is not wholly different from the old Cold War days (e.g. Vietnam War) but more diffuse.

I think that the West has the resources to win this Cold War for the same reason it won the last one – the other side is fundamentally weak and is making the same mistakes (e.g. Russian empire building). But it will require strength of will.

I’ve been following the comments on House Hunt Victoria for years because I like to keep a pulse on what is happening in real estate in Victoria and area. Certainly lots of topics covered and I value it very much.
One thing I don’t see talked about very much is the state of the world and how close we could be to WW3. (within 2 – 5 years )
I hope that I am wrong of course, but what I would like to know is what happens to real estate if we cascade into war.
I’m not really looking for a discussion on whether war will break out or not.
What I am looking for is what people think will happen to real estate, world wide, if it does and is anyone taking that into consideration when they invest in real estate.

Might sound dumb, but the cool marine air would be a dealbreaker for me. Different strokes and all that.

I hate rain, and there’s a big difference, almost double the rain in Langford (45 inches.year) than Victoria or Oak Bay (24 inches).
This is because of the protective Olympic Rain Shadow
The difference also means more sun and less dreary days. All documented here https://www.olympicrainshadow.com/olympicrainshadowmap.html

Annual rainfall by city … Langford 45 inches, Victoria 24 in. https://www.reddit.com/r/VictoriaBC/comments/hbl0re/how_rainy_is_victoria_compared_with_other_cities/

Marko – ask VicRE. They have made the call. For shame if they made the wrong call.
Lol

if funds/affordability weren’t an issue 95/100 people would pick South Oak Bay over Royal Bay/Westshore.

I’m not a Royal Bay person so maybe my opinion doesn’t count here, but South Oak Bay would not be on my list if money was no object. I like daytime highs to be in the mid 20s during summer. Might sound dumb, but the cool marine air would be a dealbreaker for me. Different strokes and all that.

How many hours until the BOC decision?

IMO, the only legitimate concern that many West Shore schools face is overcrowding.

Kinda went downhill when Nando’s closed

Honestly this class warfare is revolting. There are many schools in the Westshore ahead of ones in the core in terms of quality. There are lots of good teachers and classmates and it’s ignorant to suggest otherwise. I literally don’t know anyone in Royal Bay who wants to move to Oak Bay or any of the other bays because we like it here. And I paid more for my house than my friends in Oak Bay and my house is nicer. Whatever, there’s barely any difference between the places and it’s desperate white privilege trying to maintain old Victoria snobbery. I get VicREanalyst carrying on cause it’s a troll persona but the rest of you should be thankful for the stolen Indigenous land you have and stop trying to attach your petty snobbery to parts you don’t live in. Going to go back to ignoring this site.

And one more sleep till a 50 point cut interest rates

I don’t think 50 is in the cards.

April stop arguing with the other side , we still need you in oak bay

School quality is not about the buildings, it is about the teachers, classmates, and their parents.

Whatever Karen, send them to vic high.

We used to go down town to catch a movie, But we now have the best cineplex imax in town.

I am not the one you need to convince, you need to convince the majority of your fellow westshorers with dreams of moving to oak bay, cadbro bay, cordova bay, broadmead etc.

Why would we go to town?

So you can rub shoulders with elites like April. Who wouldn’t want to do that?

Lmao, cope at its finest.

A lot of people work in the westshore and never have (want) to leave, because everything is here.
Why would we go to town? Beacon hill park? Butterfly world?
We used to go down town to catch a movie, But now we have the best cineplex imax in town.

Hahaha, Max you nailed it. I was about to write a snarky comment about how my life sucks owning a beautiful new $1M+ SFH on the Westshore that doubled in value over the last 6 years. 800m from the ocean and only 25 mins from downtown. Just terrible. And my measly $200k+ family income … really hitting the poverty line out here with all my neighbours who are just like me. We’re all just dreaming of downgrading to an ugly old asbestos house 10 mins closer in.

SFH > $ 1 million in Westshore has MOI at 7 months.
The school quality at Westshore is not good enough to attract middle class to raise kids there.

Typical middle class people do not have $200,009 in cash. They’re lucky to have 5 grand.

The privacy commissioners of Canada and British Columbia have launched an investigation into a Victoria-based company that performs background checks on tenants and others.
.
They say in a joint statement that Certn is being assessed to make sure it complies with the federal Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act and B.C.’s Personal Information Protection Act.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/certn-privacy-commissioner-investigation-1.7224446