What it’s costing to run a house
Just over a decade ago I wrote this article detailing the costs to run our fairly average house. At the time, the total annual cost for taxes, insurance, and utilities for our 1970s ~2100 sqft house was $6740, or about $560/month.
10 years later, how have those costs evolved? Well like most everything else, they’re a lot higher. Overall costs are up 56% in a decade, rising significantly faster than the 30% inflation in that period.
Nothing much has changed in the building envelope in 10 years, but we have switched the cars to electric in that timeframe (increasing electricity demand), and put up a small solar array (but it hasn’t yet been hooked up for a full summer). In the last 12 months we used a net of 89GJ of energy with electricity and gas combined while 10 years ago it was a similar 92GJ.
If we look at where costs have increased the most, it’s insurance which nearly tripled in a decade. That’s followed by property taxes which are up 60%.
Natural gas costs went down mostly because we’re using less (biasing more towards the heat pump and stopped using the fireplaces). Hydro is actually up only 10% per kWh with the new time-based rates, affordability credit, and other load-shifting credits bringing down the cost in recent years. Water & sewer charges also barely increased over that timeframe.
Taxes went up at twice the rate of inflation, and that’s not unique to our house. I looked at the median tax increase in various municipalities over the last 20 years, and on the average house they at least doubled in that time.
While my sample of Oak Bay houses had greater tax increases than other municipalities, it also likely wasn’t enough, with the town suffering a serious infrastructure deficit due to years of insufficient investment.
If you’re buying a house, it’s probably a safe bet to assume that taxes and insurance will continue to outpace inflation going forward.
Also the weekly market activity:
| May 2025 |
May
2024
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Wk 1 | Wk 2 | Wk 3 | Wk 4 | ||
| Sales | 89 | 254 | 763 | ||
| New Listings | 235 | 677 | 1757 | ||
| Active Listings | 3428 | 3535 | 3338 | ||
| Sales to New Listings | 38% | 38% | 43% | ||
| Sales YoY Change | — | +10% | -2% | ||
| New Lists YoY Change | — | +5% | +30% | ||
| Inventory YoY Change | +11% | +10% | +52% | ||
| Months of Inventory | 4.4 | ||||
Still quite close to the year ago figures for both sales and new lists as we approach the mid-point of the month. No guarantee that the slight sales bump will hold (every time I try to predict the end of the month based on mid-month it shifts again) but so far it looks like the market isn’t moving much.
The incidence of over-ask sales is higher now than this time last year, with about 10 to 15% of properties going over their asking price versus less than 10% this time last year. The market overall is actually slightly cooler, but with more inventory available it’s easy for a place to sit if it isn’t priced a little bit more aggressively than the competition.
I’ve looked at over-ask sales in both hot and normal markets before and generally think it’s a solid strategy. Unless the market is in an acute shock, there are always buyers around and it’s just a matter of attracting them. In a normal market like we have now, pricing aggressively seems to get you market value in a shorter time, while in a hot market you get a chance at selling for above-market value. Hard to see the downside when selling a property with broad appeal, especially when most sellers will remain tied to their optimistic asking prices.
New post: https://househuntvictoria.ca/2025/05/20/should-home-prices-go-down/
I can assure you that I am familar with folks that can’t grasp simple concepts.
https://youtu.be/FoYC_8cutb0?si=4Owhlts1Dr5Xp90g
Where I work that’s mainly for the quants and performance measurement folks with PHDs, CFAs aren’t pure quants btw. I do deals, much more real world and boots on the ground stuff. You be surprised the amount of times pure numbers folks fail to grasp simple common sense business concepts.
No sense in being nasty. If you don’t understand regression analysis this might be the time to update your skill set.
https://www.toptal.com/management-consultants/real-estate/real-estate-valuation
Yep flow charts and bar graphs don’t cut it in life and that mostly goes for investing
really makes you wonder wtf an appraiser appraises all day….
That metric works for condos in certain situations, but yes for an Oak Bay SFH completely useless. Even for a brand new Oak Bay home completely useless imo….ranchers are selling for way higher per square foot than a two level home on a similar lot/location.
100% agree.
Good to c we are bucking the national trend . Victoria has emerged as a real estate super power on the world stage .
Sales up 4% from this point last year.
New lists unchanged.
Inventory up 9%
Month May May
Year 2025 2024
Net Unconditional Sales 448 763
New Listings 1,093 1,757
Active Listings 3,579 3,338
I am revising my projection to 780 sales for the month.
And that’s what I’m questioning, ie. the utility of that convention as a “useful” criterion when applied to a neighbourhood like Oak Bay. As in, when you’re looking to buy in Oak Bay, would anyone actually care about this? And if you’re just looking to compare neighbourhoods and the fact that Oak Bay is more expensive for obvious reasons, even then expressing it as a function of finished square foot in my view just isn’t useful, because it’s probably the least relevant input in making up the difference in pricing.
Can you imagine any Oak Bay buyer looking & finally finding their dream property (and every subjective thing that goes into that determination) with a so-so older house, and then their realtor telling them oh this one is overpriced because they want 30% more than Gordon Head (or whatever) but it shouldn’t be more than 25%? Of course not. And yes, I realize your comment isn’t property-specific but illustrating the higher value on the neighourhood, but even as a generalization, I’m just saying it’s not a useful metric, to a real buyer in the real world.
“I see that a couple of people are not getting it. So I’ll put it in a way most should understand. If there were two vacant lots of simillar physical characteristics. One in Oak Bay and one in Victoria, the Oak Bay lot will be more expensive to purchase on average about 25 percent more because Oak Bay is a more desirable area to live”
Yes – that’s not a big revelation, but insisting on somehow tying it to house square footage is a bit of a head-scrather. The higher value of Oak Bay has relatively little to do with the square footage of the house. And that’s what makes that a useless metric in my view.
Im back in Victoria. So many upsides. It really is the best city in Canada.
Market2025, the better forecasts come from the bank’s economists. I recieve Scotiabank, BMO, RBC, and TD rports. Next would be from the economists for the real estate boards of Vancouver and the Fraser Valley. A well written analysis comes from Landcor. The banks are the better reports because they have access to information that is difficult to obtain such as the number of people applying for a mortgage, their incomes, size of down payments, and delinqencies.
We often hear about median income to median home prices, but that is a very general statistic. But if you have access to mortgage applications showing the actual incomes and size of down payments of prospective purchasers actively shopping for homes that’s just gold. Sometimes they inadvertenly use dated data such as the BC Asssement roll for home prices. Those home prices are now dated back to July 1 of 2024.
For more current data then it’s the real estate boards. Landcor strikes a nice balance between the two but they don’t cover Victoria in much detail.
Forecast are the best educated guess by economists. They are not soothsayers, oracles, or prophets that claim to know the future. That would be Ozzie Jurock.
I wouldn’t say lots of Oak Bay homes have unfinished basments anymore those that do would be outliers. But if what you are alluding to is the sample size then you do have a point. A problem that can be reduced by expanding the time period of the data collected. If you are comparing median prices and bracketing the data by square footage and excluding waterfront it isn’t a big problem. You can review the data set to see if the median or typical property in the areas have similar phyisical aspects such as age, house and lot size.
The typical property in Oak Bay is a 1952 built home of around 2,635 finished square feet on a 7,590 square feet lot.
The typical property in Victoria is a 1948 built home of around 2,157 finished square feet on a 5,600 square feet lot.
Not that disimilar but still one has to consider that price per square foot rate decreases as the size of the home increases. You can get around that by bracketing the data by age, house and lot size.
But in Saanich East the typical home is 1976 built home of some 2,400 square feet on a 8,870 square feet lot. The year built isn’t a major concern as most homes in Victoria and Oak Bay have been updated so their effective age is offsetting their chronological age.
The big challenge is in the Westshore as it has a lof of newer homes on small lots that have been built to a much higher building standard and building code. But for housing in the Victoria Core it’s not a big problem to do an apples to apples comparison as a lot of the housing is vintage.
So if you live in Oak Bay there is a premium paid relative to the surrounding areas of Victoria and Saanich East. And it is a considerable one. In contrast the premium paid for a property in Victoria and Saanich East is negligible.
I see that a couple of people are not getting it. So I’ll put it in a way most should understand. If there were two vacant lots of simillar physical characteristics. One in Oak Bay and one in Victoria, the Oak Bay lot will be more expensive to purchase on average about 25 percent more because Oak Bay is a more desirable area to live.
For example 2552 Florence in Oak Bay is mostly land value and sold for $1,067,500 for a 6,000 square feet lot. 1210 haultain in Victoria is also a property that is mostly land value and sold for $851,500 for a 6,000 square feet. A difference of 25 percent. This is basic geospatial analysis.
Seems about right.
I agree, lots of the older oak bay bungalows don’t have finished basements so when calculating $ per finished sqft it will adjust it upwards. Oak Bay is all lot value, having a flat properly shaped lot without bunch of trees everywhere on a quiet street is where the value is.
Are you actually expecting someone to know what’s going to happen over the next two years? No one knows that—anywhere.
Read it agin Peter
The price per square foot rate includes the land. It’s simply the sale price of the entire property divided by the finished floor area of the house.
If we had two identical properties, which is unlikely to happen, but in two different locations. One in Victoria at $600 a foot and one in Oak Bay at $750.
in Victoria 2,200 sft X $600 Is $1,320,000 for example 2749 Victor Street that sold for $1,320,000
in Oak Bay 2,200 sft x $750 is $1,650,000 for example 2627 Dunlevy that sold for $1,621,000
Now instead of using two sales use a sample size of 150 homes over the last 90 days and compare the average price per finished square foot in each municipality and it can show the premium paid for a home/property in Oak Bay to that of Victoria. The reason why I’m using a price per finished square foot is that it is unit of comparison commonly used in real estate.
You might then say why do it by house size and not lot size? And that would be a great question. The answer is it is done by convention. The same as average days-on-market is by convention and not median days-on-market. Someone doing this same calculation in Windsor would do it the same way as someone in Victoria.
Does anyone know of reliable reports on Victoria market forecasts next couple years? It’s been pretty flat for a while.
After allowing for views, marginaly utility and lot size variation, prospective purchasers in Oak Bay pay the higheset price per finished square foot for a home. And it isn’t a small variation, the premium on a price per square foot basis, can be 25% more than the surrounding municipalities. That may be too technical for some to understand
FWIW, I think expressing the desirability of Oak Bay in terms of price per finished square foot is not a very useful metric, because it tries to associate the value with the house whereas I think it’s all about the neighbourhood and the land & a bunch of subjective premium value that has little to do with the often tear-down structures on site.
$1,728,000
Can someone please tell me what 827 Gulfview Place sold for?
Don’t really follow the recreational market, but if prices have really tumbled that much maybe it’s a decent time to buy.
One thing that I have noticed about Oak Bay is that the turn over rate for homes is quite low. That’s likely because Oak Bay has a lot of retirees and the home will be the last one they will ever own. 20, 25 years might pass before the property comes back onto the market.
That low turn over rate is a cause of why the percentage of Oak Bay homes for sale relative to the total stock of housing is also low , in relation to the surrounding areas, with around one percent of the total inventory for sale today.
All of which is attributable to the desirablity of the township. The more desirable neighborhoods having a low turn over rate and lengthly ownership. After allowing for views, marginaly utility and lot size variation, prospective purchasers in Oak Bay pay the higheset price per finished square foot for a home. And it isn’t a small variation, the premium on a price per square foot basis, can be 25% more than the surrounding municipalities.
That may be too techical for some to understand. To put this into perspective a purchaser for a home in Victoria City or Saanich East might pay $600 a square foot for a property. That identical property, If there was such a thing, in Oak Bay would be $750 a square foot.
Marko, good to hear . From what I’m seeing a lot of the price decreases are minimal at best . I would venture to guess prices are up year over year . That is just my unbiased take
Last 7 days
New Listings – 379
Pending – 189
Price Decrease – 182
Expired (some of these would be re-listed at a lower price) – 40
It is busy on all fronts given the time of year; however, for this time of year sales are below a 10 year average but holding in better than I anticipated. I think we might beat out last years in terms of sales.
Definitively a lot of price decreases.
I keep seeing a lot of cancellations, re-lists and price decreases.
I’m getting lots of solds in my in my infeed and that’s a positive and joyous comment
Hi Leo
I’ve enjoyed following House Hunt Victoria for many years.
One thing that stands out for me is that there are a few people on this forum who attack people instead of offering kindness and alternative ideas.
I would like to see them tone done the ugliness of their comments and if they can’t do that then I’d like to see them kicked off the forum.
People should be able to engage in a positive way even when they disagree.
Instead…. we have some who resort to bullying or sneering comments.
Most people on the forum are great and I thank them for their contributions.
Also: Thank you for your time and for your hard work Leo! You have created and brought together a group of people to a forum that is thoughtful and very useful.
Co-ops sound like a nightmare to remove non-payers.
Talk about not getting it.
Co-op housing is back in the news once again. Co-op housing is a cross between renting and owning where the members don’t have Title to their own unit but have a share in the complex.
For this to become mainstream, the lenders have to become knowledgeable and gain experience in funding new owers and refinancing. Since there are no individual Titles to the properties, the lender has no Title that can be foreclosed on. There may also be some legal hurdles if one of the owners is evicted by the complex and the complex has to pay out on a share value based on the value of the entire complex and not what the unit would sell for when the owner voluntarily lists their unit in the open market. Share Value and Market Value are not necessarily the same.
More on prefabs.
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/costofliving/prefab-housing-shortage-1.7535092
Thursty, the home on Dunlevy has dropped its price once more. Started out at 3.6 million and now down to an askng price of 2.6 million.
There have been 11 price decreases in Oak Bay in the last week, so that could spark some increased interest.
Increased inventory means more selection and that can cause prices to rise. I wouldn’t be surprised to find that the median price paid for a home in Oak Bay breaks the ten year price record this month. For the last few years the lack of selection likely drove prospective purchasers to other neighborhoods as they weighed location against the quailty of the building.
Oh my, busy day at an open house in estevan today . Looks like the tide is turning . Maybe he start of a hot summer market . .
Have you checked to see if you still have your wallet?
“That is so 2021. But keep up the cheerleading.”
Actually, the story about the summer cottages is dated July, 2025 , Patriotz.
I was at a birthday party with my grandson yesterday and it sure was nice when I met someone who had a great attitude and a magnetic personality.
It was no surprise to me that they are doing well in life.
https://blog.remax.ca/cottage-life-a-solution-to-canadas-urban-housing-shortage/
That is so 2021. But keep up the cheerleading.
“They bought cottages during the pandemic real estate rush. Now they’re losing up to $365,000 when they sell”
https://www.thestar.com/real-estate/they-bought-cottages-during-the-pandemic-real-estate-rush-now-theyre-losing-up-to-365/article_f7371f96-baef-4e74-b3ce-fb72a37c8900.html
Okay, back on topic. It costs a shit tonne of money to run a household these days!
Apropos of nothing, Leo sure doesn’t participate much in the conversations on his own blog anymore.
Dave Chaves @ DMC Masonry LTD.
https://blog.remax.ca/cottage-life-a-solution-to-canadas-urban-housing-shortage/
People are looking for alternatives.
A recent Australian intensive study finds that working from homes has amazing benefits for people and businesses.
https://farmingdale-observer.com/2025/05/16/scientists-have-been-studying-remote-work-for-four-years-and-have-reached-a-very-clear-conclusion-working-from-home-makes-us-happier/
‘<<</Size of book means a larger team and would likely have active management.
it means , to me, the sales guy/gal has to bang hard to sell…
It does when people compare their returns against the S&P 500 which is what most people do.
Size of book means a larger team and would likely have active management. Not saying the active management can consistently beat the market but that’s not the point made earlier.
“Not many people or institutions will have an IPS that allows 100% equities so that’s part of the reason for the underperformance when comparing against a stock index. There are retail advisors with billion+ books in Vancouver, I think the biggest ones in Victoria are around 500 million.”
Common misconception that it has to do with your asset mix(stocks to bonds). It won’t matter if someone has 100% equities or 20% when comparing against an index. The percent that is in equities is what is compared against an equity index and the fixed income is compared against a fixed income index. In all cases indexing is the best way to go.
IPS stands for investment policy statement or fancy way of saying how much in the stock market and how much in safer things.
Lots of big books(+$1B) in Victoria and on the island. Size of book doesn’t equal quality of advisor either.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/toronto/article/is-your-toronto-condo-worth-less-than-your-mortgage-what-to-do-if-youre-underwater/
From these headlines, it seems the housing crisis is over in Toronto (or a just a different kind of housing crisis now).
More of a thing than ever.
Is a self directed investment account platform still a thing these days?
Not many people or institutions will have an IPS that allows 100% equities so that’s part of the reason for the underperformance when comparing against a stock index. There are retail advisors with billion+ books in Vancouver, I think the biggest ones in Victoria are around 500 million.
Chose to delete as the haters would go crazy.
It’s Indian Reserve. Normal rules do not apply.
Threre are also three-bedroom two-bathrooms available such as this one asking $679,000
https://secure.imagemaker360.com/l/?id=182251
The freehold near equivalnet is $1,165,000
https://youtu.be/nTZJ0nqy1IE
No such thing in BC anymore. 55+ is still allowed
Yes when you look at that specific property and development it isn’t suitable for a middle income family. But you are not going to find an example of missing middle affordable housing. They haven’t been built yet.
Instead look at the concept and adapt it to the missing middle income. Modular homes on small leasehold lots suitable for both those looking for their first home and seniors desiring to down size to a more manageable property.
These are not properties that will appeal to either of you . And that’s good as they are an alternative to traditional properties – a compliment not a substitute. Just as a strata home is a compliment to a freehold home, not a substitute that directly affects single family prices. You can buy one of these or pay almost double the price for a traditional bult home on a freehold lot with double the property taxes. That’s your choice.
There are a lot of hurdles to this type of development and one of the biggest is market adoption. People don’t like change and most will fight it. Similar to what happened when strata condominiums were first introduced in BC.
It’s also a 2 bed (not practical for a family), in a 40+ community, and in Sidney…
.>>> Seems like right now what is being built are purpose built rentals, not condos or townhouses that are good for families of the future.
Agreed. If we exclude PBR units, relatively few homes for sale are being built.
Assessed value for that house is $329,000.
>> The best advisors now are the ones that index and add value in other areas.
If they charge per hour for work done, I’d agree with that. Like a lawyer or accountant does. Imagine how absurd it would be if your lawyer charged you a fixed % (e.g. 1%) of your assets “under management” per year. This is what most financial advisors do. No thanks. If you know of a good one that charges by the hour, let us know.
No.
12 new house listing and 11 price decreases this week in Oak Bay and Fairfield. That puts the number of active listings for May at 124 which is the second highest in the last decade and we are only half way through the month.
“Wrong, there are some that run their own portfolios with analysts on the team.“
They are fooling themselves into thinking they are real portfolio managers. No retail advisor can outperform a passive index unless due to luck. What they are doing is for show and to try to impress the client. Google SPIVA report and it shows how successful big firms are at outperforming a passive index.
The best advisors now are the ones that index and add value in other areas.
One in my hood just sold, thought they priced to market and it ended up going 30k over. Pretty solid price, don’t think it would have sold for much more last year or the year before.
Interesting…. are we talking about a gentleman who’s last name starts with a C who has 4 adult kids (3 sons and one daughter)and live in oak bay?
>.., If he is a full partner then he is a business owner so there is no full time/part-time…
It doesn’t work like that for this radiology group. They have to keep working full-time (at least 6 months/year), and if they don’t they have to immediately sell out and cease to be a partner.
Wrong, there are some that run their own portfolios with analysts on the team.
How to build affordable housing. This house is listed for $629,000
https://youtu.be/wCcxF7ocD3Q?si=4W1IEo38zrJESghD
“ Most advisors aren’t even designated to run a discretionary portfolio. They will just suggest stocks their institution analysts recommend that fits into your asset allocation from your IPS. Or they will try to sell you products managed by their brokerage.”
No advisor has time to do research other than what their institution is providing. Their time should be spent with clients and adding value through coaching and planning. If an advisor gets their clients average market returns, they will beat 90% of investors.
If he is a full partner then he is a business owner so there is no full time/part-time…..
Most advisors aren’t even designated to run a discretionary portfolio. They will just suggest stocks their institution analysts recommend that fits into your asset allocation from your IPS. Or they will try to sell you products managed by their brokerage.
Well then, that tells me you are selling five star quality that is priced right. Your probably just talking about selling all your hot rods.
Max , I’m a seller
Anyone selling in this current market has to sell, and everyone knows that, and it had better be priced right, and it had better be 5 star quality. You would have to be really stupid to sell in this market unless you had to.
Marko, good to hear , maybe things are starting to turn . I’m noticing sfd listings are tailing off in O.B and Fairfield
Sales holding in there this week, 41 in the last 24 hrs that is a pretty decent clip. Might even match/beat last year if this continues next two weeks.
Yes, Victoria CMA housing starts are bleak …. down 29% YTD (Jan-April) compared to last year. That’s SFH down 26%, multi down 30%.
Partly due to government action to reduce demand from various buyer groups (foreigners, satellite families, Airbnb stvr, second homes etc.). So developer response is to stop building. New starts of SFH so low (69 in 4 months, 17 per month), barely keeping above net zero when tear downs included. Yet 70% of househunters are looking for SFH, and population expected to rise by 1,500 households.
See table 2:
https://assets.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/sites/cmhc/professional/housing-markets-data-and-research/housing-data-tables/housing-market-data/monthly-housing-starts-construction-data-tables/2025/monthly-housing-starts-tables-2025-04-en.xlsx
This is what I am seeing and you can take it for what its worth. The construction of all these PBR will come to an end in early 2026. Civic road work in the core and surrounding areas will start to slow. New construction of any kind will be very slow. Renovations (which I have been doing for the past 15 years) people will pull back and postpone, I have been seeing this for over a year now.
Layoffs will be a thing in the construction industry at a much higher volume than usual. The self employed subcontractors will feel pain. People will probably have to move, only this time the oil sands and camp work will be nonexistent.
My oldest Son was a house framer and switched over to a service plumber apprentice position doing only service work for more money replacing hot water tanks and faucets. I have shifted entirely into emergency fire/flood/tree restoration.
I have been playing this construction game since I was 17 years old in the greater Victoria area. I will be 52 years old in November.
By looking at the new rental market, the current absorptions seems suggest the rents in the short term will not likely rise in 2 years. When we look the downward trending of the home ownership rates, we are certain that around 40%-50% population won’t be able to own in Victoria.
Depends on the advisor. I would ask them what their thoughts on indexing are and if they believe they can beat the market. If they don’t like indexing and think they can outperform, then run…
A good advisor’s job is an emotional coach that keeps people sticking to a plan, does tax planning, rebalancing, educates and keep their fees low.
.,.>>… Apparently decent retirement nest eggs for doctors seem to be around the $3 million range, but many are working past 65 due to money issues. Does this reconcile with your insider experience?
Many doctors work past 65, for a combination of reasons. Most common is that they enjoy working, and are in senior positions, often with some academic interests as well. A radiologist friend is an example. He already has 6 months holidays per year, yet is considered full-time and a full partner. Most of his work is remote anyway. So he plans to continue with that, as he enjoys it., and is doing important and needed work.
The supposed “hard luck” situations of doctors I’ve seen is typically when they are working part-time to begin with, due to family or health reasons. And they aren’t obsessed with how much they’re making, and would turn down a job at 2X pay if it wasn’t the right kind of work (they might not like “walk-ins or tele-medicine for example). You’ve probably seen some of them on the golf course or elsewhere, complaining. It is “fee-for-service”, so that means if they aren’t seeing many patients they don’t make much money. Same applies to any fee-for-service profession. .
These are acquaintances from golf, industry and friends so I don’t think there’s much “self-serving”, but obviously I expect there to be exceptions. Apparently decent retirement nest eggs for doctors seem to be around the $3 million range, but many are working past 65 due to money issues. Does this reconcile with your insider experience?
I actually do have an investment advisor friend setup with an IPS ready to take over for my family should anything happen to me.
A good piece of advice would be to not believe everything you hear from “financial advisors”. Much of what they say is “self-serving” or just made up. I would assume that you already know that, and expect you don’t even have a “financial advisor”.
My Mother in law is literally worth millions in liquidity. Everyday she goes down to the senior center to eat for like $4 and buys all her clothing and household items at the Salvation Army thrift store.
It’s not cheap and it is doable, I just find it funny how people interchange financial independence with living frugally in order to justify why they can’t have what they actually want in life.
I never once said that life was cheap, because it is most certainly not. It is however very doable in Victoria if you put your head to it. This thread has seemed to have merged into happiness. The one thing in my life that brings me the most happiness would be my Wife…No bullshit.
Peter, not totally suprised , they have made cars stupidly expensive to repair and it doesn’t have to be a foreign made car anymore . I just did 2 rear shocks for 1400.
totally off topic sorry, but funny anecdote – I just had to go to the body shop for a small repair & the guy tells me, you’re lucky you didn’t take out your LED headlight assembly, I just repaired that on a similar car and what with the sensor(s) and other stuff, it ended up being $7,500…
I still have trouble believing this, but he was totally serious.
I’ve had say 30 cars, and probably 20 of them cost less than that headlight assembly repair he was talking about
No wonder people can’t afford stuff. Makes a “starter home” in Victoria at a million look downright reasonable…
And how much is that lol? A Toyota Tacoma is going to be like 60k after tax.
Yes, that’s the life…
As expressed here….
A poor man mows his own lawn,
middle class men hire people to mow their yard,
a rich man mows his own lawn. 🙂
Max, lol i hear u , my main driver in the summer is a teenie sports car form the 50’s and I’m getting too old for old cars lol
The only ride I feel comfortable in is a 3/4 tonne pickup truck. One that I can drive to the gravel mart and have a couple yards of top soil loaded and come back home to do some gardening and top dress my dethatched lawn.
Nope.
How can a basic human right be viewed as an extravagance 🙂
Vicre , Porsche make wonderful cars , anyone who has owned one will tell u it’s the best car they have ever owned . They are special
My insider contacts are telling me the market is heating up . Maybe some first time buyer incentives coming to soak up the extra inventory hmmm
Did you intentionally skip my example of a 200k porsche being extravagance or was it just an oversight?
You were? I don’t see how what you and Frank posted is a realistic reflection of the situation. For sure condos are down in TO and Vancouver. If you bought at the 2022 peak you are likely underwater right now. However prices are not below late 2021 pricing based on the graph in the article.
This will affect some buyers for sure, and declining rents and rental restrictions don’t help pay the bills. Maybe we’ll see bigger drops, especially very small condos. However, perhaps the biggest issue will be lack of supply in the future. Seems like right now what is being built are purpose built rentals, not condos or townhouses that are good for families of the future. The dearth of “investors” due to market conditions, some of which are created by policy changes, makes it not so easy to build on presales.
Definitely wouldn’t be my choice either.
Right so you likely live in a 1.5+ million house and have a 20k-30k car, quite different than someone living in a 900k house driving a 3k car.
I was discussing the real estate article that “Umm.. really?” posted below.
Tale of condos
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/condo-market-slowdown-1.7535704
Benchmarks are different. I like a small, private, easy to clean home. I like a non-fancy car cause I let my kids drive it and I don’t want to stress about scratches. I like to vacation with family and it doesn’t need to be expensive – we make the most of airmiles and home exchanges these days – although some of the homes are pretty fancy. I prefer to eat with taste and health span in mind so I like to cook most meals and have a big garden. It doesn’t cost much at my benchmark.
What does cost a lot is time freedom before conventional retirement age. It takes a lot to reach that imo – but worth it.
You are just benchmarking off your likely comfortable upper middle class life.
We’ve dined at the Empress, listening to some lady strumming the harp. The food was terrible and so was the wine. I’ll take the white spot any day.
This comes back to my original point, if you achieve “financial independence” but live in a crap house in a shit neighborhood then are you really happy? Financial independence needs to have a minimum lifestyle benchmark, sure you don’t need to drive a new 500k Rolls or a 200k Porsche but if your “financial independence” requires you to drive a 25 year old beater that smokes and makes weird noises then does that even qualify as financial independence? Or if your annual vacation is limited to camping at the Sooke Potholes and a nice meal out is at White Spot with a glass of their house wine.
Finally some common sense. This is Ironic because I’ve heard from numerous accountants and financial advisors that apparently doctors are amongst the worst when it comes to money and planning for retirement.
I agree with this, but it’s also possible your viewpoint may have a sort of rosy glow because you already have enough money. For myself, I found the biggest benefit of money was that financial independence = security and flexibility to do whatever, including early retirement. That was priceless. And actually, I enjoy my house & some toys, but I’d agree those add only a certain degree (relatively small) to overall happiness. Once financial independence was achieved, I’m fine with just enjoying the day-to-day relaxed things you describe that don’t per se have much to do with spending. But the point is, you do want that financial independence first, and that does take significant coin.
That said, when I go to the gym & talk to folks, it’s just sort of apparent that (i) many of them live on pretty basic means, and (ii) it doesn’t much affect them and we’re all in the same place doing pretty much the same things 80% of the time. What I manage to do in the other 20% is a nice-to-have, but it’s not crucial.
Overall, the condo market is doing alright. It’s just the downtown core that has seen continuously high months of inventory since October 2023. Excluding the downtown core the MOI is in the 3 to to 5 range.
>…. increase in salary doesn’t correlate with increase in happiness?
Seems like that study has been discredited. As income increases, positive feelings increase, and negative feelings decrease. No plateau for the vast majority.
—-===———
Money can help almost anyone with happiness. That idea is summed up nicely in this witty quote I heard from a mother of a friend back in med-school days.
“Rich or poor it’s nice to have money” 🙂
@Marko (or anyone else). Any recommendations for stone masonry companies?
Maybe some were. Not all. And who cares what the hope was.
What is the point of this conversation?
They were hoping to sell the pre-sale on assignment. That didn’t happen.
Weird that you place the cause of price increases on individuals and seemingly im/morality rather than market forces.
My understanding is that rent and price increases encouraged many people in TO to buy an investment condo over the past 20 years – mostly using home equity. This increased net worth fairly reliably for a long time. Now immigration has been cut, interest rates are rising, rents are falling, tariffs are having an impact, and there is a downturn in the condo market in TO and, to a lesser extent, here. Behind it all is the lack or drop in appreciation which has turned rental condos into a buy and hold or sell and lose proposition. That will change again one day, but maybe not soon.
As for the banks, they will collect on the security they have – from the developer on construction loans and from any owners who are not paying. Any shortfalls they will have as a loss, but it is not like lenders and strata councils have no remedies. Individual unit owners don’t get to just walk away – they had to qualify for the loan in the first place and generally have collectable assets and income.
Not really Victoria based but a story from up my way I read about a year ago:
https://www.cowichanvalleycitizen.com/local-news/major-development-planned-for-paldi-area-in-cowichan-7337630
Looks like it may not be going so well:
https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/28321208/lot-a-paldi-rd-duncan-west-duncan
I’m not super informed in how these processes go, but anyone that was looking forward to the big new development in Paldi may be waiting a while. It was a hugely ambitious project I think. I remember feeling a bit cynical about it.
You should try something else then, maybe join some protests? I hear there is one downtown every weekend.
The individuals that drove up the prices are gone, even with a housing shortage, no one is going to pay a premium, or even close to it, on an asset that is decreasing in value. Lots of dark condo towers in Toronto. The party is over. Victoria wasn’t overbuilt, so the dynamics are different. Could the condo collapse trigger another financial crisis?
Put simply, you can’t get blood from a stone.
They will write them off as a capital loss. The developer will go bankrupt. The building that was supposed to form a strata corporation will likely enter into receivership. The people in the building will be screwed.
Do you mean proceed with foreclosure? Banks have security over the property when they provide mortgage financing. The strata can put a lien on the property if you don’t pay your fees.
How do you think banks will cut their losses exactly? What is the scenario you are referring to?
I do too. Lick your wounds and move on.
“Sorry, didn’t mean to insult your house or neighborhood.”
No offence taken. I don’t live in that area. I just generally wouldn’t equate being an online troll being happy.
Since when are banks responsible for condo fees when they write off the loan? There are thousands of empty condos. Banks will cut their losses and the units sit empty.
Sorry, didn’t mean to insult your house or neighborhood.
These are vacant units. They were supposed to sell and didn’t. The investor walked leaving the deposit on the table and is now currently being sued by the developers for not closing on the deal. Multiply that by thousands of people at once. You can put a lien on it all you want.
How do you figure? If someone defaults on their mortgage the bank steps in and resells the condo at market price. In the meantime, bank pays strata and other fees until transferred to new owner. There is no increased burden on remaining owners as they get a lien on the condo for any unpaid fees as well.
As a result of that they will be chained to that condo for the rest of their life. The remainders are the Mom and Pop investors that sold the house to avoid bankruptcy.
Condos in the major cities were definitely in an AirBnB bubble. When these failed hoteliers walk away from their “investments”, the remaining residents are left with a greater share of the condo fees and any special assessments. That’s why I hate condos as an investment. Real estate is essentially just dirt.
I’m pretty sure they call that inflation.
I’d say research is open on whether there is a plateau or not. But if there is a plateau it is at a higher level than some earlier studies showed.
At the very least happiness vs money is a logarithmic function where increasingly greater increments of money are required for successively smaller increments of happiness.
Hardly surprising as these sorts of diminishing returns apply in many areas of life
Seems like that study has been discredited. As income increases, positive feelings increase, and negative feelings decrease. No plateau for the vast majority. https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnjennings/2024/02/12/money-buys-happiness-after-all/
However, I don’t think this is the case for me. Being in a time freedom position and being able to help our kids is better. A higher net worth was better to the point that these goals were reached. After that, no difference.
“Those studies are crap just like the studies say half of society is one missing pay chq away from not making rent. You don’t need to be a billionaire to be happy but you certainly can be happier than being mortgage free in a 50’s house in say Tillicum with 80k a year of income, which technically make you a “millionaire”
VicREanalyst, judging by your online profile you are sure making a case for those studies
Yea!
Had another death related email on Monday. Husband (wrote owner-builder exam) and wife building a home in rural BC. Husbands ends up passing from aggressive form of cancer and BC Housing ends up slapping a stop-work order on the home as it is being drywalled. Now the widow has to write the exam.
If you closed the entire owner-builder department at BC Housing overnight literally nothing would change in society other than it would be cheaper/quicker to build a home. The owner-builder would still need to get all the municipal permits/engineering/etc.
Even another round of emergency level interest rates won’t save those guys. They are just unwanted. You know its bad when even the vultures don’t want them. What is unfolding in the Toronto condo scene right now is a perfect example of tulip mania. People are walking away surrendering the deposit because even if they wanted to they can’t get the financing to close on the deal. The developers are now suing anyone that can’t close on the deal. So now we’ll have thousands of bankrupt people and we’ll still have the thousands of empty condos. Who’s left holding the bag here?
Then we have Vancouver. I follow Steve Saretsky (the guy in the article) on YouTube and he’s painting a pretty grim picture over there too. Victoria usually lags Van by around 6 months approximately so I’m expecting a bit of a shit storm over here very soon…In the condo market anyway.
Marko, so your saying in order to get a prefab landed on your property u would first have to pass the builders test , correct
Speaking of prefab homes we were talking about last week…
“Came across your video from a few years back regarding the owner builder authorization. I built a house on xxxxxxx five years ago, sold, and now I’m using the same prefab company to build in xxxxxx, BC. I took the owner builder exam last week and failed (xx out of 100) – and it was an absolute joke. You’re right, they just want people to fail.
Anyways, I’m desperate though. Your video mentioned you have a study guide or PDF (the BC Housing study guide is laughable). If you’re still handing that out I’d love to get a copy.
Thanks so much. “
Women like financial security (money). Happy Wife, happy life.
Those studies are crap just like the studies say half of society is one missing pay chq away from not making rent. You don’t need to be a billionaire to be happy but you certainly can be happier than being mortgage free in a 50’s house in say Tillicum with 80k a year of income, which technically make you a “millionaire”
Tale of condos
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/condo-market-slowdown-1.7535704
I tell my kids they don’t need to be rich to have a good life — but they do need enough money to be able to afford housing, food.
Didn’t studies establish that after a certain point increase in salary doesn’t correlate with increase in happiness?
Hey Caveat, thanks for the context. Still seems hopelessly silly to me regardless of the content of the proposal. (FWIW the only other place I’ve lived where turning right on red was illegal was NY while a postdoc; makes sense in Manhattan or where there are roads with 90 km/hr speed limits populated with NY drivers, but here?!) I’d like to see UVic’s reaction if I decided to spend some fraction of my paid time doing things that have nothing to do with my responsibilities, like coming up with recommendations for best research practices in other Departments.
Under current system if a muni wants a lower speed limit than 50 anywhere they have to extensively sign it which gets expensive. Whether you agree with the proposal or not, that is the reason multiple cities over the years have proposed province-wide changes
More money means more fun , it can even extend your life .
I was never a big fan of big houses as I am not big into having lots of people over and entertaining, I am in about 3000 sqft with 2 kids and don’t have any desire to get bigger regardless of income. I am more into the outdoor space, views and privacy of the lot and of course location. Without kids I think I would do max 2500 sqft
Government decides to build it and construction starts the next month. No b.s. regulatory crap over there, dug up some bones, who cares, keep going. that’s how China is able to catch up to the west so quickly in the last 30 years.
I fail to understand how proposing province-wide traffic laws (very bad proposals at that) falls within the purview of Saanich’s duties:
https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/saanich-sends-motor-vehicle-act-motion-back-for-revision-10663769
“What’s the end goal? To have 8 figure+ wealth then sure. But if you are satisfied with a 3M house, some toys and a similar amount in your investment portfolio then there are professions that will get you there.”
–
As someone who had/has most of the above in my early 50’s, I say knock yourself if you think that’s what you need to be happy but I can tell you that the big house and the toys won’t make you happy if you weren’t happy without it, however I will admit that having a a few million or more will give you peace of mind, but again won’t make you happy. After having had a bad concussion a few years ago and taking a couple of years to mostly fully recover from it I now appreciate what’s really important and life and I am greatful for all the thing money can’t buy and we ended up downsizing from the big home into more modest renovated 50’s, home, by choice, a couple of years ago and I am much happier living in 2,300 sq feet vs 4,000 sq foot new home in the same neighbourhood. As for the money, it’s nice to know it’s there but I can’t see us ever spending most of it, a good day is a short bike ride to the pool for a hard swim, bike ride to do erands and maybe a training ride or a run, then lunch and a nap and then maybe a short walk to the golf course to golf with my sons later in the day, none of these activities require much money.
Point is, clearing land in the Center of the city and building density up is probably the right thing. Let’s hope the roundhouse project starts moving forward.
My question is: how did those groups of very tall condo buildings get built in cities in Asia? Did the government buy (or expropriate) the land? I lived in one and clearly there was a massive influx of multi family homes all in a relatively short period. The good thing is how organized and logical it was since it was all built at once. The downside is you have to go to the beach – or sneak on to a rooftop – to see the sky.
What’s the end goal? To have 8 figure+ wealth then sure. But if you are satisfied with a 3M house, some toys and a similar amount in your investment portfolio then there are professions that will get you there.
Gregor Robertson is now the federal housing minister and he has said the soluition to the housing problem is to build more, not lower prices. That’s not an innovative solution, we’ve been doing that for decades.
This could work but it would be neccessary to over saturate the market with new housing. Creating a glut of housing on the market.
But that’s not likely to happen with single family housing as we have tens of thousand of independent contractors that faced with a slowing market respond quickly and pull back or stop building altogether. It would be really difficult to create a glut in single family homes. Condominiums we can have a glut, but it’s less likely to happen when building single family.
Oops Dee, poor grammar on my part , but yes I would agree . Gotta be willing to take a chance.
The recipe is 3 things: luck, skill and comfort with risk. Not sure why Thursty said risk adverse. Isn’t it that you need to be willing to take risks that others wouldn’t? I might add connections as a fourth. I mean it’s a heck of a lot easier too if you know the right people.
Usually retired before 50 with peak earning years approaching 7 figures starting at 40 with sub 60 hour work weeks but with more enjoyable work at a more strategic level. Working longish hours in an office environment before 30 isn’t too bad. You usually have some down time within those office hours too and lots to do if in a big city.
Max , your uncle would have held on to a lot more of his money back in the 80s and 90’s . Today I would not be suprised that someone would only be able to squirrel away a 100 grand of his 500 g’s.
I’ll tell you a little story. My Uncle, with only his high school education was making $1M annually over in Van at 35 years old in finance. If you have what it takes in that business…The sky is the limit. He is comfortably retired now.
Vicre , man sounds like a lot of work for 500 k . That poor fella is going to work himself into an early grave .
Doubt it. Buyer probably wanted to maximize leverage at sub 4% but if it came down to it they will just pony up the extra $ for the down payment to close.
9 to 9 Mon – Fri and 9 to 5 on Sat prior to 30 followed by 9 to 7 Mon-Fri with adhoc weekend work will get you >$500k/year by mid 30’s.
I’m up to a single play of the BC49 with a single play of the extra every week now! It seems harmless at first until you start running the numbers. It adds up, that’s like $8 per/mo. If one were to invest that $8 per/mo into a balanced and diversified portfolio.
Well that’s their problem. If you want income, get a job. They should have never have banked on that income to begin with. ADU’s are meant for your kids anyways.
Max , not a big gambler but I would probably play the horses
There are now over 600 freehold condominums for sale in the Victoria and another 200 outside of the core. That put our months of inventory in April at 4.6 and the average day to sell at around 35 which isn’t too bad with the typically condo selling so far this year at around $540,000 down from the peak in April 2022 at $605,000.
Which seems to be better than the markets in Toronto and Vancouver that some are calling a condo recession.
In Victoria, the lack of investors has collapsed the volume of sales by 30 to 40 per cent from the peak, as what has happened in the bigger cities, and without investors so went the market for new condominiums. Some of the Victoria projects have pivoted to rentals but that is moving the supply problem down the road and into the rental market.
For me that is disconcerting as the weakening rental market will in time effect the single family market. Home owners that rely heavily on suite income to make their mortgage payments on time.
And that’s just not me either. The major lenders are showing concern. I receive lenders’ Terms of Reference (TOR) and this month received the first TOR of the year that has tighten up on income verification requirements for rentals. For example I inspected a property that sold for over 2.5 million which included a legal accessory dwelling unit and the deal hinged on how much the vacant ADU could rent for in the market. Could it rent for $3,000 or just $2,500 a month?
If the rents in Victoria declined say by 15% that’s going to make it more diffiucult for people to qualify for a new mortgage.
If you had 5k that you must piss away in Las Vegas tonight, what risk adversity do you suggest? Would you throw it all on red?
U need luck and be risk adverse to really get ahead . Punching a clock 9 to 5 is not going to get your feet in the sand in a lot of nice places
I would take luck over smart any day in a casino.
Sometimes there are legitimate bargains. Like when they were selling oceanfront lots on Chesterman beach for 20K (130K in 2025 dollars) in 1974. Vision or luck required
Yes and Saanich can annex uplands also.
Maybe Oak Bay can annex Gonzales
No the oak bay premium is the ability to say they live in oak bay and remind those that live immediately west of foul bay that they actually live in COV and no Oak Bay. Lmao.
Maybe these left wing world savers would wake the f up when they realize it’s really their net worth on the line.
Downtown condos outside of humboldt valley would get an overnight lift of at least 10%.
It could be really cheap if we’d just wrangle them all up in one fell swoop and then send them off to El Salvador like Trump.
That’s the Oak Bay premium that confuses people.
Wonder how many people realize that if the drug addiction and homeless problem gets cleaned up then everyone’s property values would go up? LOL something for homeowners to consider for the next election
The fact is the greater Victoria area is the best place in Canada to live, that’s just the reality of it, and it comes with a premium. If you can’t afford it now, well then your just going to have to move somewhere else, there is no sugar coating it.
Lmao, there is a reason why some things seem cheap….
Wildfire central. Currently at high risk expected to move shortly into the extreme risk category and stay that way for five months. Buying anxiety if you buy that.
And yes…I am familiar with the fact that “RE prices are location dependent” 🙂
That’s why I don’t intend to sell my place in Sooke and buy that farm with several hundred acres instead.
But still…..I find it fascinating!
I also find it fascinating that the days get longer and it’s light out later in the day!
I’m easily entertained.
I will watch to see what it sells for.
Derek- Let us know what that land sells for, probably several million if it’s worth anything.
Are you not familiar with the world wide concept that RE prices are location dependent
Amazing really …when you think about what people are willing to pay in the city.
Farmland north of Kamloops…starting bids at 1.5million. Several hundred acres.
https://www.clhbid.com/auctions/little-fort-fodder/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=carousel&utm_campaign=Little_fort_fodder_web_traffic_carousel&utm_term=buy%2Bfarmland&utm_content=little_fort_fodder_web_traffic_carousel_BC&twclid=27kg14nyd123myzpevmkgw35v4
Only if there is sufficient land available in the area you want to develop.
I am guessing they wanted the property more than the sellers need to sell it?
Yes. $5500 annual honorarium.
Cutting just one of Marko’s beloved tree protection coordinators could find an entire platoon of poet laureates. Probably enough poet laureates to recast council agendas and minutes into iambic pentameter.
Kind of wild to hear then Mayor Lowe causally refer to downtown drug users as “junkies”. Could you imagine the current mayor doing that?
Does Victoria still have a Poet Laureate on staff?
Agreed! Indifference to wasteful spending because it is “only 1%” of budget is a slippery slope. While I don’t expect or demand government to be as efficient as the private sector, I don’t appreciate the attitude of “who cares about a few %”.
If Victoria could actually find a measly 1% in savings through downsizing low priority programs that would actually be quite a large amount of money that could fix roads, upgrade infrastructure, maintain parks, hire police officers, run recreation programs or support events in the city. Or just reduce the next tax increase 🙂
Everything was just fine back then? I remember this article from when it came out in 2007.
https://www.pressreader.com/canada/national-post-latest-edition/20070901/281663955623511?srsltid=AfmBOopmy69zBZhdJwZu-lw4pO7DYs2HLBqNKF2QjSNXsk6PtkrNpJq0
Such vision can be executed via OCP.
After paying the developer $10 million a few years after the developer paid $3.3 million, the property has been sitting undeveloped for the last five under COV ownership. As tax payers we are either paying interest or opportunity cost on the $10 million. The COV was literally the only buyer (well aside from BC Housing) for that block on Pandora. How do you pay at least x2 market value when you are literally the only potential buyer.
How is >1% of annual budget insignificant? In my small business I do a long list of things things to save less than <1% of revenue such as installing my own real estate signs, maintaining my own website, etc.
Well I just happen to track this as well, going back to when we bought our house. This is a graph of the annual figures, 2009-2024. This is an older home, 1939 build, pretty common in the Gorge/Tillicum/Burnside area with 2 beds and 1 bath up, single garage and unfinished basement (when we bought it) on the “ground” floor. The floor plan at the time said it was 1070sq ft for the main floor, but we heat, let’s say, about 600sq ft down as well (we added a second washroom and put up some walls/ceiling/floor in 2016), so rounded to 1700ish.
We installed a heatpump when we moved in, but we were still using oil as backup heat until 2024 when we replaced the furnace with a cold climate heatpump (no more backup heat!), so that’s why there’s a small amount of oil here and there. Everything was still working, but the insurance company wanted us to replace the 16 year old oil tank and that spurred us to ditch it.
We also have an EV since 2017 and in Saanich, water/sewer also includes garbage collection since 2014 and I haven’t separated that. We used to have it included in property taxes prior to 2014.
If I compare 2024 to 2015 to get a 10-year comparison, Hydro is up 9%, insurance is up 142%, Property Taxes up 63%, Water/Sewer/Garbage up 52%. Total in 2024 is $8,684 vs $5,133 in 2015, so up 69% all together.
How about reduce staff wages by every percentage point that taxes are raised each year? Take money out of my pocket, we take it out of yours?
I don’t think it would be, but as I alluded to below, a few targeted staffing cuts would seem unlikely to lead to significant cost savings.
Is it? If Victoria reduced a few of those positions discussed down below I don’t see that as being super controversial. And they’d get kudos if they had smaller tax increases than other munis in CRD.
You can buy anything politically if you have enough cash.
No doubt, but then you are probably talking about service cuts/less capital spending, and that is likely a tough sell, politically.
Don Mann is currently constructing its new operation with a huge yard directly beside Slegg Lumber out here in the Westshore. I drive by it everyday.
Nothing is going to happen under the Liberals. They’re too distracted (intentionally) by the tariffs, affordability, climate change, etc.. Crime and drugs don’t interest them, they caused most of it.
Well, could always just go back to involuntary confinement (treatment) that we had just 10 to 15 years ago, that a person needs a clean drug test to be eligible for parole (for crimes they committed) and to continue to test clean to stay on parole. That would also require going back to enforcement for theft, robbery and assault that all were removed as enforcement priorities. It’s funny how some wonder how this crime problem just came out of no where, but it was systemic change based on activist dogma that was falsely presented science based research asserting enforcement was criminalizing people.
Largest budget item for any municipality by far is policing costs. Change to a tough on crime no non-sense approach at a federal level and many problems including municipal budgeting will solve itself. Too many left wing world savers in Canada for this to happen though.
3 to 4 million here, 3 to 4 million there, pretty soon you’re talking real money. And how about we merge some of these municipalities, how much would that save?
It’s a cozy little system for a lot of people. Some are needed, some are not.
Wtf kind of left wing job is this? Someone to tell me to put on a jacket when it’s cold out?
Probably not, but I don’t think you can apply the same P&L principles in the public sector as you do in the private sector. I think alot of the stuff that public sector do will never make financial sense but it’s done to keep as a necessity to keep everything functioning. Also the work environment just breeds incompetence and laziness. Why work harder and loner when you don’t get a bonus for a job well done and most promotions are seniority based, more of a race to the bottom of working the least and still get paid the same.
I think it more comes down to council and politics. Their objective isn’t making money or getting a good deal but more of a vision type crap, I am sure COV had some vision for that land and paid up to make it happen (whatever that is). You can see the same thing with Saanich, they paid $25M for the Don Mann property to move their parks group over to free up land at the Saanich Yard for development. I can guarantee you that the land freed up at the yard won’t be worth $25M and I am sure Saanich knows that too, but they probably did it because they have a vision for that Quadra McKenzie corridor that they determine is more important than P&L.
I know, I complain and more than half my business is government (or close enough) clients purchasing real estate.
100% agreed….it isn’t just payroll. They paid 3x what the developer paid two years earlier (in a relatively flat commercial land market) -> https://victoria.citified.ca/news/926-932-pandora-avenue-city-of-victoria-acquires-pandora-avenue-land-holdings-across-from-our-place-shelter/
It’s more about a culture of discipline, responsibility and accountability for public dollars. Anyone who says it’s just 3 to 4 mil, should not be in public service.
I think Elon should focus on colonizing Mars.
How about Elon!
I think rhe problem is some of the roles get in the way of development. Maybe there’s a way to pivot so the people in those roles contribute more positively. Maybe we need a productivity specialist role to figure out how to do that.
And realistically, what would that save? 3 to 4 million off an operating budget of ~$270?
But if you cut all those jobs who will buy the condos?
Have to pay for all these important positions (this is from 2023, who knows how much they are making now) – > https://www.victoria.ca/media/file/2023-statement-financial-information
Digital Service Advisor $103,290.54
Climate Adaptation Specialist $93,584.42
Internal Comm & Engage Speclst $115,112.37
Dir of Strategic Real Estate $203,127.98 (COV paid $10 million for a property on Pandora developer paid a few years earlier $3.3 million for)
Lead, Talent Acquisition $110,071.35
Talent Acquisition Specialist $96,423.57
Health & Wellness Advisor $95,856.18
Climate & Env Sustain. Spec $108,508.55
Business Analyst $103,340.05
Inclusion Coordinator $85,746.00
Multiple Tree Preservation Coordinators $86,002.15, Multiple people in Urban Forest Planning $108,706.35
Etc., etc.
If you cut 30 to 40 positions all the services would still function to your property.
Last house we built in the COV we had to run a generator for 6 months in the front yard because the tree preservation coordinator wouldn’t approve one branch being cut off a useless tree (the arborist the COV forced us to hire said it was useless and had no value) so BC Hydro would hook up, lol.
Well, there’s also buying Jazz clubs, grants to so called “non-profits” so that friends can 100k plus salaries, getting into provincial services (sending the province fake bills), tree protection officers, and so on, and so on and so on….. Also, having a mayor and councilors that actually don’t reside in Victoria really keeps the motivation down for keeping taxes lower on those who pay (making their activists agendas the primary goals).
I am left wondering if taxes are mainly up because policing costs are up due to homelessness and drug addiction issues.
I “think” police costs overall are around 23% of Victoria’s budget?
There have also been expensive items such as the sewage treatment facility, massive investment in bike lanes and the new bridge….which…apparently….. we all wanted.
Interesting article. We are on a payment plan with Esquimalt where we pay taxes ahead for 10 months – currently 350/month (total taxes in 2024 were 4400 so we will have to pay a difference when taxes are due). Then hydro is ~200/month. Water is ~65/month. Insurance is 225/month. So that puts us at 840/month. Plus mortgage. Still much cheaper than renting something similar bc we have a suite that brings in 1700/month in rent.