Sales waver in the face of strong new listings

Camosun too?

Camosun College is facing an $11-million budget shortfall as it continues to grapple with the revenue impact of a sharp drop in international students on campus. The projection of 2,200 international registrations last year failed to materialize, and the current estimate is for just 1,200 when the academic year begins this September. Camosun president Lane Trotter said the college has seen fewer than 50 layoffs so far, but “there’s a lot of fear in the organization.”

https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/camosun-faces-11m-budget-shortfall-as-international-student-numbers-drop-10360592

The University of Victoria and The Royal Roads University.

Camosun too?

I myself have not noticed layoffs or people cutting back in Vic , so I’m confident first quarter gdp will be a positive

The University of Victoria and The Royal Roads University.

We use single key for all of our application’s and have been for about 5 years now.

Exactly how much does this problem tenant reimbursement insurance policy cost the landlord monthly/annually?

https://www.singlekey.com/en-ca/rent-guarantee/

We use single key for all of our application’s and have been for about 5 years now.

Paying for an Insurance policy to take the fear out of having a tenant.

Marks, good numbers, maybe the market will start to shake off trumps black cloud . I myself have not noticed layoffs or people cutting back in Vic , so I’m confident first quarter gdp will be a positive

I’m not sure if it’s entitlement or such , but I’m finding myself folks seem unreasonable and always spoiling for a fight . I have shuffled my business to limit my exposure to both employees and customers .

I’ll tell you right now its not just the landlords that are being thrown over the barrel here in Victoria. I know a very successful businessman who operated a very sizable construction supply business. He hired a nice woman, with solid references, solid appearance, very personable…She was perfect. She was great for an entire year until she wasn’t. She started showing up late all the time, then started calling in sick all the time. It got to the point where it was reflecting very poorly on his business.

He felt that she had to go so he fired her (terminated or whatever). She marched down to The BC Labour Relations Board and slammed him with a bunch of accusations. I can’t get into the details but she raked him across the coals. Even with a lawyer it cost him 200k to put it behind him.

Nothing is safe anymore!

Interesting op-ed by Ruy Teixeira (longtime Democratic strategist):

https://www.thefp.com/p/can-democrats-embrace-abundance

which IMO has some relevance for things up here.

Month Mar Mar
Year 2025 2024
New Unconditional Sales 431 587
New Listings 1,134 1,309
Active Listings 2,975 2,647

Sales pace improved from last week and should improve further this week.

I am going to estimate 620 sales for the month.

Marko, would agree that society has shifted considerably. I’m not sure if it’s entitlement or such , but I’m finding myself folks seem unreasonable and always spoiling for a fight . I have shuffled my business to limit my exposure to both employees and customers

Good if you can do that. You know how they always say money can’t buy happiness? I’m finding one of the best things it can buy you is true independence including freedom from other people’s BS. That’s a luxury worth having.

the opposite has occurred

The chart goes to 2021.

What I mean is that in the last 3-4 years the government has instituted many legislative changes that do not support being a landlord. And the changes to interest rates and slowdown of the housing market affect this as well. Perhaps the biggest change has been the public vilification of landlords as being a cause of the housing crisis.

>>> In my view, the government should be incentivizing private landlords to create and rent out suites if they want to further increase affordable options at no cost to government – and a windfall on tax revenues – but the opposite has occurred.

Not sure what you mean by saying “the opposite has occurred”. Prevalence of rented out suites in Victoria has INCREASED markedly.

Leo wrote an article about that, saying “ the prevalence of suites has increased substantially”, and posted the chart below.

https://househuntvictoria.ca/2023/08/14/suites-and-home-values/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

@Dee

We ended up using our lawyer and were issued an order of possession from the rtb after about 4 months. They actually left at that point, so we did not have to hire the bailiff.

https://vancouversun.com/news/bc-secondary-suite-incentive-program-over

I am shocked that 200 owners actually signed up for this over 2 years, I thought it would be more like 20. I like how they have 80 million left over…what idiot in the government thought this program made any sense? Would love to see how much was spent to design and administer this….probably more than the amount paid out to homeowners.

I was very critical of this program -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3CBj7Ra6eQ

made zero sense.

The first to double the TFSA contribution limit has my vote.

I would vote Trudeau back in for that perk.

Umm, I’m good with that . It feels like the last few years folks had to pick a side being either far left or right and there was no place for a moderate

The first to double the TFSA contribution limit has my vote.

Anyways, we’ve been out of this game for years now, and happy to be out & collecting our dividends etc. The older I get, the lower my threshhold for dealing with unreasonable people with a sense of entitlement.

Yeah, part of that is getting older, having a lot more equity to invest in ex. dividend producing stocks, and things becoming objectively more risky and difficult as a landlord due to legislative changes – particularly the fixed term lease and landlord use requirements. At this point we are still LLs, but I don’t think we will be for too many more years.

When I first started posting here 13-14(?) years ago I pointed to the economics favouring a primary residence with a suite. They still do for people starting out, but there is now way less control when it comes to dealing with less than ideal tenants. You can screen for a lot of that, and mostly we have been fine, but we have had two RTB cases:

An elderly tenant who began to suffer from dementia and became delusional and started making accusations about neighbours and issues in the suite that were just not real – things like being surveilled, people entering her suite and appliances shutting on and off on their own. We tried to contact her family but they were estranged… Made an RTB claim against us which she lost as it was not grounded in reality. But took up our time and energy to deal with.
A separated mother of two who was highly educated, appeared stable, and had good references but was actually mentally ill and engaged in a high conflict divorce. She made an RTB claim against us which she lost as it was, again, not grounded in reality and we could see the high conflict dynamics repeat when we became an adversary of sorts in her mind. Not fun to respond to because you have to show a lot of evidence and when the other party is just making up stuff it can be difficult to respond to.

You can’t always control for mental decline. Now we generally choose employed people with a stable work history who will probably end up buying a house and full-time students who will eventually move on. And we have our adult children now living in our places.

Marko, would agree that society has shifted considerably.

Too many things to list in my personal business but here is one small example of ongoing daily struggles now versus before.

10+ years ago when a transaction went unconditional the vast majority of the time we waited until completion, the transaction completed, seller got their $ and buyer got their keys and moved in.

Now even between unconditional and completion is just non-stop annoyances. For example, sometime 5 to 8 years ago this clause became very popular and we frequently see it in contracts today “the buyer and seller agree that the seller will grant acess to the property for one hour up to three times prior to completion.” [personally for sellers I cross the three times and we counter with one time]

Often I find buyers using this clause just to go see the property after condition removal for no particular good reason and they don’t seem to care if seller has a baby, or similar, and it isn’t super convinent for the seller. Sometimes buyers are like ohh we just need to measure something and they don’t bring a measuring tape, lol

Sellers on the other hand that could easily step out (don’t have kids, etc.) and go for a walk for the 1 hr or something are always pushing back “they saw it twice, then they saw it again at the inspection, why do they need to come see it again?” Often just being difficult for the sake of being difficult and then I am like well we did change the clause from three times to one time, they probably just need to measure something for furniture they are buying.

and as the real estate agent you are just trying to navigate and keep everyone calm.

When I sold my house buyers came back like 5 times…I was like whatever, I am at work go as many times as you want. When I bought my condo I just waited until completion and grabbed the keys….like the view isn’t going to change after I go unconditional and if it did I am unconditonal anyway. However, apparently not everyone is as laid back as i am 🙂

You would think with AI they would be asking for less support.

That’s probably because, except for a small handful of tasks, AI sucks.

The last reference call we had (several years back) we provided a good reference – we had given notice and wanted them out, not about to sabotage their move. Good idea on getting the last 2 landlords.

References are a tricky thing. As a landlord I would never give a bad reference – if anything I would decline to provide one. If you do give a bad reference I would be very careful. In todays world you could end up before a human rights tribunal or similar for stopping someone from obtaining housing.

Same goes when I don’t accept an applicant (not a LL atm). There’s no reason given – either we are still interviewing or someone else was successful.

Do tenants not need a glowing reference letter when they try to rent another property? This is what I would do: write a letter describing in accurate detail the situation they have created, send a copy to them and their lawyer and tell them this is the letter of reference their next potential landlord is going to receive. And end it with: Good luck finding a place to live. I guess they could provide fake references, but a check of their previous address could reveal the fraud.

So the tenant that destoryed my floors…..a large property management company out of Vancouver phoned me for a reference and while I didn’t lie to them (I simply omitted info that he destoryed the floors with his weights) I gave them a good reference – he always paid rent on time, no strata bylaw complaints, etc 🙂 I just wanted him gone asap before he caused any more damage so I could go in fix the floors and find a new tenant (he was still in my unit when the reference call came in).

As a result, references play a small part in my screening process. Face to face showing of the unit is still my favourite tool.

Frank, that letter sounds threatening. Do you really want to send it to their lawyer?

I understand that you want the tenant to leave but do you want revenge to the point that they can’t find a place to live?

Don’t put that crap in a letter Frank. Just refuse to provide a reference letter and let it go with that.

Do tenants not need a glowing reference letter when they try to rent another property? This is what I would do: write a letter describing in accurate detail the situation they have created, send a copy to them and their lawyer and tell them this is the letter of reference their next potential landlord is going to receive. And end it with: Good luck finding a place to live. I guess they could provide fake references, but a check of their previous address could reveal the fraud.

Condo/Townhouse Vs. House

https://youtu.be/IqF_A6bsyEw?feature=shared

Assuming that price is the better indicator of desirability, I thought I would show the median price of homes in each neighborhood of Victoria during 2024

Are those numbers for detached exclusively, or do they include townhomes/strata properties?

What about the hoods in Saanich and also view royal Esq etc?

“I don’t regret having bought there (because it was quite affordable), but happy that we moved on.”

Same. It was affordable and the house appreciated a lot in value over our time there but we’re happy to live elsewhere now.

I’m going to leave it at that.

…Agreeing that cash for keys is a much better option than going to the supreme court and hiring bailiffs?

I understand that. Obviously what I was talking about was the 2024 assessment as of July 1, 2023.

Lol, that isn’t what you were saying at all, and no reasonable person would read it that way.

Anyhow, the comments section has gotten noticeably worse over the last few years, and you and I arguing over this isn’t helping. So I’m going to leave it at that.

For convenience, I’ll just set out what you previously wrote:

Its telling me my house for the previous year was assessed at 1,080,000. I know for a fact it was assessed at 1,020,000 and that was posted on their site for a year. So 60k came out of nowhere and was added to the previous year assessed value. Now my house is assessed at 1,051,000 as of July 1 2024. In my head that means the assessed value is up 31k. In their head the assessed value is down 29k.
I know for a fact the house was assessed at 1,020,000 for 2024.

I was not lying. The assessment was $1,080,000. I felt that was too high. They corrected it down to $1,051,000.

https://househuntvictoria.ca/2024/12/23/rental-market-data-looks-encouraging-for-tenants/#comment-123833

You’re lying again.

you are completely full of shit

Remember when you tried to lie about BC assessment changing the previous year’s assessed value of your house?

You get an order of possession. Then you go to the BC Supreme Court and obtain a writ of possession. Then you can hire a Court bailiff to physically evict them.

A landlord cannot:

Physically evict a tenant.
Change the locks without an order from the RTB.
Take a tenant’s personal property without a court order.
Use a bailiff firm that doesn’t have a contract with the Ministry of Attorney General to evict a tenant.

A landlord who illegally evicts a tenant may be fined up to $5,000 and may be required to repay costs incurred by the tenant as a result.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/residential-tenancies/solving-problems/tenancy-dispute-resolution/serving-and-enforcing-orders/order-of-possession

When you say “Unpaid rent is hands down the easiest way to evict a tenant.” you are completely full of shit.
Cash for keys is by far the cheapest and easiest way to have a problem tenant(s) GTFO!

It was her new boyfriend that became the problem.

This is why I would include a material term prohibiting additional occupants from moving in without express written permission from the landlord.

Buyer can’t

Buyer can

Most tenants are good people (assuming you screen properly).

She was screened properly. It was her new boyfriend that became the problem.

I knew that new portal would be a problem. Glad we took back our other unit before it came online. We only have 1 unit now so I don’t worry too much.

Max, eventually you can hire bailiffs. It is expensive and annoying but it’s is possible to forcibly remove someone (lawfully). I was told (again by an experienced landlord) to serve notice of eviction the day after rent is due. That’s what I’d do in those circumstances (in 10 years never had to do that once). Most tenants are good people (assuming you screen properly).

Dad…You can serve an eviction notice all you want. Question is, how do you get them and all their shit out? Call the cops? They won’t help you. Do you really think she didn’t try that. She three adult Sons (big Sons). He would record and film everything on his phone…You can’t just flipout and lose your cool.

Don’t know. It’s weird bc if you look through BC gov media release says they started accepting email service during pandemic. And reading the policy guideline it talks quite a bit about how email service can be used. Then there is an actual form RTB 51 that’s to allow service by email. So maybe the online notice generator is simply an oversight? I can see why the government doesn’t want to send/serve notices via their website for a variety of reasons but tbh seems a bit sloppy to have these two conflicting messages.

A reputable property management company emailed me/landlord some instructions this week for a tenanted property I listed for the landlord. I’ve worked with five different property management companies in the last 12 months and no one is sending notice via email.

“Please note that we need to receive your generated notice (it will be generated by the portal) no later than the 20th of the month, as we need time to prepare the document and register mail it (serve it) to the tenants.

…………

As per the changes to the Tenancy Act in August of 2024, the three-months’ notices for tenants must be generated by an online portal and by the owner of the property (any individuals registered on title). Please note:
……….

c. Please note, we will not sign the notice on your behalf. You need to sign it and send it to us, so that we can register mail it to the tenants. If the timing is too tight for the registered mail, your real estate agent can deliver the notice to the tenant, on your behalf.”

> If you want to be productive in Canada you just get punished.

Sure, if you insist on doing absolutely everything yourself you might feel “punished” (albeit as a “punished” multi-millionaire).

If you hired an assistant(s), they would take care of much of what you complain about – “sending e-mails”, “stacks of pdf’s”, “going to 4-hour strata council meetings” etc.

If you insist on DIY, fine but don’t complain about it. Feel thankful for all of the rewards.

@thursty

We are doing a bit of both, the first property we sold was only one unit and the second two units.

We are planning on selling the personally held properties slowly to reduce the cap gain and properties under 4 units.

We may go back into larger projects 10 units or more like the one we just finished.

The better return for us is Adding units and stabilizing the project, the smaller properties are too much money tied up for the return.

Ask me tomorrow and I’ll be selling it all haha, I’m in my early 40’s and sick of dealing with the entitlement over the last few years and we have great tenants and properties.

We also have something in our lease saying tenant agrees to accept service via email. Have not had to use online form generator.

Interesting so if tenant signed this form but the online notice generator doesn’t list email as an option for delivering notice is email satisfactory or not?

I’ve never actually had to deal with the online notice generator.is that not only for when you are selling a house and the new buyer is giving notice for landlord use?

That’s just an example. This week I am dealing with a tenant who contacted the tenancy branch and after discussions with them noted that for showing I need to post 24 hours’ written notice on his door and if via email it’s 72 hrs plus some other 24 hrs so 4 days notice if via email. We ended up negotiating something else.

Whenever landlords call me to sell I just cringe. Every time it is a struggle.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/housing-and-tenancy/residential-tenancies/forms/rtb51.pdf

We also have something in our lease saying tenant agrees to accept service via email. Have not had to use online form generator.

Vic land , are u repurposing funds or shying away from being a landlord

Honestly we have not once had one of our tenants ask to sublet a unit.
the sublet tenant would still have to go through our screening process, I honestly don’t ever seeing a tenant going through the process of finding a sublet.

9 times out of 10 someone will not break their lease in our experience.

We sold one property last year and another the year before and we will be most likely listing another this year.

We have all tenants sign an email for service form while signing their lease. We have not had to send anything via registered mail or post anything on the door in years.

More and more SFHs in the core hitting the market with an offer delay setup.

What does that mean? Offer date?

More and more SFHs in the core hitting the market with an offer delay setup.

You only need to upload the lease agreement and proof they broke the lease

What if the existing tenant asks you to sublet until end of lease so they don’t lose the damage deposit?

For the liquidated damages. you either get the tenant to agree to take the amount out of the security deposit or if they do not agree, you hold back the amount you have specified in the lease agreement and apply to the RTB to keep it. So you are actually not going after any money.

You only need to upload the lease agreement and proof they broke the lease

At least it covers your time to answer 100 emails/messages, to show the unit.

The number of downtown freehold condominiums has jumped recently with close to 200 listed for sale. For all of the Victoria Core there are now some 535 condos listed. Agents have been very busy listing condos. This spring we are starting with 4.25 months of inventory. Average days-on-market is 34.

In contrast there are 380 houses for sale or about 3.2 months of inventory. Average days-on-market is 26.

Historically a balanced market would have a DoM of between 30 to 90.

I would consider the market in balance but slightly favoring sellers with prices stable to increasing. And that’s pretty good considering all of issues in the news these days.

A possible reason for the increase in downtown listings may be that the agents are being a little over optimistic in the asking prices. But given that this is the start of the spring market that is expected.

This might be a good time for renters to say goodbye to their landlords with the increase in condos listings.

https://youtube.com/shorts/L1k1OtTZ1Hw?si=n78LSwxCAZAuEfCw

It’s too bad landlords can’t have a tenant’s credit card on file that they can just tack on any damages or unpaid rent, like car rental companies do if they find any damage on the car you rented.

All this reminds me why i got out of rentals. Happy that others are still in the game

I disagree with the face to face meeting these days, it only helps to an extent.

Interesting, face to face is like 90% of my decision. I am in a position at this point my life to hand everything over to a property manager but I feel I can do a better job picking tenants (maybe I am wrong). I also list a lot of places that are professionally managed for the landlords and I can’t say I’ve been impressed with the tenants on average.

We had a mid 20’s girl apply about 9 months ago and I thought she was going to be the perfect tenant. Dressed nice, Going to school and living off an inheritance with provided documentation.

I’ve always passed on this profile of tenant. Had a similar application a few years ago on a unit I have at the Promotory. Mid 20’s, going to school, put down black Mercedes C-Class on her application and then asked if the rent included weekly cleaning. I said no and then she followed up if I was going to have it professionally cleaned once the current tenants moved out and bases of those two questions my thoughts were spoiled and going to be high maintenance (would likely ask me to come deal with burnt out lightbulbs, etc.) – no thanks.

That being said once I had a young doctor I thought would be perfect screw up my brand new floors dropping weights on them – thankfully I had extra boards.

you should have a liquidated damages clause in the lease if they are to break it.

I’ve never gone through this process, if you are successful in proving damages as the landlord and the tenant has no funds what is the process of getting the funds out of them? Can the court take a portion of their salary every month or similar?

I do have a liquidated damages clause. However, in reality especially when the vacancy rate is so low, I can easily find a new tenant if the tenant breaks the lease. If I went to RTB to sue the tenant who left early for compensation that would (a) take a very long time to get a hearing (b) be very annoying use of my time (c) not be guaranteed successful since they’d tell me I should have re rented and mitigated. Finally, even if I won some monetary order against them there’s no guarantee that I could collect.

If you read C. In the policy document below it also indicates that if a tenant breaks a fixed term lease and the landlord re-rents for more money then those additional monies can be used to offset anything else the tenant owes the landlord.

I know the lease is a contract and there are supposed to be consequences both ways for breaking it however it seems to me that in reality long leases protect tenants much more than landlords.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/housing-and-tenancy/residential-tenancies/policy-guidelines/gl03.pdf

In reality under RTA they can leave whenever and I have to mitigate. So I just do month to month and they can leave whenever and if there’s a change in composition I don’t have to accept it. It gives me freedom too.

I always check references — knowing however that they can be faked. I’m going to look at that single key.

@ Dee

Why exactly is it in the landlords best interest to have a month to month? First I’ve heard of that.

We use single key for all of our application’s and have been for about 5 years now.

https://www.singlekey.com/en-ca/

I disagree with the face to face meeting these days, it only helps to an extent.

We had a mid 20’s girl apply about 9 months ago and I thought she was going to be the perfect tenant. Dressed nice, Going to school and living off an inheritance with provided documentation.

She wanted the place, so she filled out the application and her previous two addresses came back as brand new rental buildings in Vic, after getting ahold of one of the property managers she was evicted for non payment

Wow 798 Linkleas, west facing, standard south oak bay lot sold for not much more than land value, that’s a great buy for a nice neighbourhood and loss on the flip. Unless there is problems with the house , that is a sure sign the market is still soft.

Dad is spot on with his explanation on non payment of rent, definitely the quickest way to get someone out.

You can also apply for an eviction if the tenant paid rent late a few times.

For us, all of the houses in our price range in nice neighbourhoods were total dumps compared to what we bought in a not-the-best neighbourhood

Care to disclose what neighborhood your first house was in?

Agreed. Get it right the first time around and don’t be like me!

you were able to rectify!

LOL which HHVr bought 798 Linkleas?

Groot, we need a return of Hipsterism, I’d love to wear an Axe the Tax shirt ironically.

WTO ruling that will allow countries to tax imports based on their carbon footprint.

The benefits include encouraging domestic industries to adopt cleaner technologies and leveling the playing field for countries with stringent environment regulations.

Canada was proactive and implemented a national carbon pricing system affecting both domestic and imported goods. Poilievre had recently announced that he was willing to get rid of carbon taxes altogether including taxing the polluters. That could mean countries that we export to could put tariffs on Canada’s exports and collect the money instead of Canada.

I doubt if PP is happy today as he has a warehouse full of axe-the-tax T shirts he can’t get rid of.

In actual practice we couldn’t stay in a less-than-ideal neighbourhood when we could afford a better one. We were lucky that we could move.

Choosing the right neighborhood is key as just like houses one can get priced out. A 200k delta 10 years ago is likely 800k now and that limits quite a few people, assuming you still have 300k left on the original mortgage now you will need to carry $1.1M provided no other sources of capital. If you got a old house in a good neighborhood on a nice lot then worst case scenario is for that same 1.1M you can probably build yourself a brand new house.

Even just seeing how people filled these out gave us some insight.

I’ve mentioned many times on HHV but I have some odds things on my one page application including make and model of car. Currently have one tenant with a Mazda3 Sport (hatchback), one with a Mazda CX-30, etc.

Showing the unit to a potential tenant also gives me way more insight than the actual application itself.

I’m curious now if it would be better to refuse a partial rent payment in order to evict faster.

I’ve been a landlord for about a decade at this point. Have never had any serious problems. I would evict in a heartbeat for non payment of rent. Hopefully it never comes to that.

Dude, that was all generated by AI.

I figured. Some AI generated content is very accurate. The problem I have found is that, like a human, it can spit out dogshit if you start asking really specific and technical questions.

Much better than the nonsense you posted earlier.

Dude, that was all generated by AI.

Better start reading then.

Legal instruments, formally approved by the Governor General (or Lieutenant Governor in provincial contexts) on the advice of the Executive Council (or Privy Council), used to make regulations, appointments, and authorize actions under existing legislation.

Do you mean website? Here’s one:

I would like a brief summary of the Orders In Council.

So the answer is yes, you do.

Please point me to a browser that doesn’t have AI generated content. Would you like me to post a picture of a cat riding a unicorn travelling through space?

So the answer is yes, you do.

Trust me dude I have been through this.

Do you usually take advice from AI generated content?

Not if he’s making an effort to pay the rent and its documented in the form of an e-transfer on a monthly bank statement. They look at it as a hardship.

Incorrect.

He would just e-transfer 1/3 of the agreed upon rent, signed by both parties in the rental agreement contract …Just enough to say he was making an effort.

Unpaid rent is hands down the easiest way to evict a tenant.

“The reason you see the 40% to 50% jumps is people simply can’t afford the 80% to 100% jump or don’t want to max out.”

In our case we basically under bought 9 years ago (weren’t used to spending money, I guess), paid down our mortgage very aggressively but not in full, and then jumped up only ~50% because we didn’t want to max out (still afraid of spending money, I guess). I think a lot of people have accumulated enough equity in their houses over the last decade and have seen their incomes go up enough that they can afford to jump up if they’re willing to take on more debt. (I’m not going to lie: the idea of staying put and being mortgage free in a few years was pretty tempting.)

We decided that we needed to live in a better neighbourhood with better schools for our kids. Schools sort of factored in to our purchase 9 years ago but only in a very theoretical way before we had kids. In actual practice we couldn’t stay in a less-than-ideal neighbourhood when we could afford a better one. We were lucky that we could move.

Does anyone have any idea how much income a bank would consider on a two bedroom basement suite rented for 2.5k per/mo? If I were a bank/lender I would only consider that income to be around 35% maybe 40% of that 2.5k per/mo. Given all of the risks involved with having tenants these days…Cash for keys would be an example.

Legality:
Cash for keys agreements are legal and common in BC.
More than 1 month but less than 12 months of rent as compensation.
You can start with 2-3 months of rent compensation and see if they counter offer and go from there.

Tenant Rights:
Tenants have certain rights that should be protected in cash for keys agreements. These include:

-The right to fair compensation for vacating the rental property.
-The right to negotiate the terms of the agreement.
-The right to clear communication from the landlord regarding the process.
-The right to privacy throughout the negotiation and vacating process.

https://www.mipropertyportal.com/unlocking-the-door-a-comprehensive-guide-to-cash-for-keys-agreements/

That’s a big jump IMO, you are effectively going from a POS house in the core ($1M) to something nice in a desirable neighborhood (almost $2M)? I’ve seen most upgrades in the 40% to 50% range but not almost double without substantial income to back it up. That’s a yolo move to skip a level and comes with risks.

The reason you see the 40% to 50% jumps is people simply can’t afford the 80% to 100% jump or don’t want to max out.

In terms of income, if you can afford to carry a 1 million and 1.5 million dollar home you are also fine selling the $1 million to buy $1.8 million. To carry both ($2.5 million) you need a huge income as the rental offset doesn’t contribute much in the grand scheme of things to qualification.

i.e., someone that can afford to carry a 1 and 1.5 is typically going to jump higher from my experience. The vast majority are going to jump a lot lower but they can’t afford to carry a 1 and a 1.5 in the first place.

In my sector we cap out pretty quickly – the only way to move up is to go into management, which many don’t want (me included).

This is exactly the reason I why caveated the income trajectory I referenced with certain fields and ambitions.

At my workplace we had an exodus of older workers during Covid, which freed up good jobs for younger folks. It looks much different now than early 2020. Our wages went up (along with public sector increases) but I don’t think the standard of life improved. In my sector we cap out pretty quickly – the only way to move up is to go into management, which many don’t want (me included).

“I don’t really see this in real life practice very often. If you have a $1 million dollar home to sell and you can upgrade to a $1.5 million dollar home and carry both realistically that individual the vast majority of the time is upgrading to something in the neighbourhood of $1.8 to $2.2 million and they can’t swing that carrying both, but they can easily swing it by selling first then buying.”

This was us. $1.2 million –> $1.9 million. Couldn’t carry both even though we could afford to buy at $1.9 million. Selling first was the only thing that I could stomach — the risk was just too great otherwise. But we were also pretty aggressive about our purchase, doing inspections, etc. on the house that we wanted while our buyers were doing their due diligence on our house. Immediately after our buyers removed their subjects we put in an offer on the house we wanted. We could have ended up wasting our house inspection money if the house had sold before we could buy it but that seemed like the least of all possible risks.

I would agree Vicre if you are in the private sector especially if you are in sales not so much in government where wages are lower but more stable. I worked in the financial industry.

Even in government, in the span of 10-15 years and provided you are competent with some ambition you should be able to get from some type of mid union role into something in the band 4/5 range which is pretty much a double in pay…

Dee there may have been realized capital gains, rrif distributions taxed as income, the only thing the resembles an estate tax is probate fees and they are around 1.5% in BC and as you said not everything is subject to this tax. You may also have been handling a very large estate.

…

Dee there is no estate taxes in Canada… for now. I am curious Dee what age bracket are you in ?

I have a few friends that have been too generous in helping their kids . Maybe boomers are feeling the pressure of getting their kids into a place .

I would agree Vicre if you are in the private sector especially if you are in sales not so much in government where wages are lower but more stable. I worked in the financial industry.

Just like I don’t think Vic RE analyst is right that people double their incomes in 10 years. My partner and I are pretty average (just barely upper middle) and there’s no way we have the liquidity to buy our kids a house and our incomes did not double.

I specially said “good career that you are advancing through”, if you are in law, finance, engineering (including software) and you haven’t at least doubled your income from late 20s/early 30’s to early/mid 40s then you are in the minority. I understand that is hard for people in other fields to comes to grips with but that is the reality. For those in professional services in those fields during that time you will likely have progressed from associate (worker bee) to partner (equity owner) or something close to. For those in corporate roles in those fields, you should be going from senior analyst level to Director level.

@bobby K I don’t think your personal experience (and those of your peers) is average. Just like I don’t think Vic RE analyst is right that people double their incomes in 10 years. My partner and I are pretty average (just barely upper middle) and there’s no way we have the liquidity to buy our kids a house and our incomes did not double. Most government jobs don’t double income that i’m aware of. Bobby K I’m thinking you’re a medical professional — I’m sure you understand this isn’t average?

I think one interesting change that we might see is the grandparents giving substantial inheritance to the grandchildren and reducing the inheritance to their own children. That I can see happening more often.

In any event we have a substantial mortgage and I am grateful that we have that problem (it is a privileged problem to have)!

Given the staggering wealth accumulated by mass wealthier households around the world it will be interesting to watch how this is and will effect both the stock market and housing markets now and in the furture. Many of my peer group in their late 40 and 50s are in a position to outright buy their children homes or give them substantial down payments, and this is even before they receive expected large inheritances and this certainly isn’t unusual for boomer parents. Patrick I believe you said you bought or helped your children buy homes in the 2MM range? Marko i’m sure you are also in the position to do the same for your children if you have any.

Marko are you seeing this yet from your non immigrant clients?

This is also distorting the US stock market leading to a historic over valuation of the US stock market. This may lead to class warfare and may largely explain trumps popularity with the less well off and well off who want tax cuts making the wealth gap even wider.

“U.S. households are more invested in stocks than ever and it’s distorting market valuation, says JPMorgan”

The Surge in Wealth
Let’s start with the raw numbers.

We currently estimate that the net worth of American households rose by $2.8 trillion in the third quarter to a record $157.2 trillion, or roughly $446,000 per head. Total net worth is up 11% over the past year and 47%, (or a staggering $50.1 trillion), over the past five years, easily outpacing an estimated 23% increase in consumer prices and a 35% increase in personal income over the same period.

This wealth surge has come from both stocks and housing.

Over the past five years, household financial wealth has risen by 38%, to $120.4 trillion, while the value of home equity has climbed by 83%, to $35.1 trillion. To put that last number in perspective, there are roughly 87 million U.S. homeowners today, compared of 79 million five years ago. Consequently, we estimate that the average American homeowner now has over $400,000 in home equity compared to $240,000 five years ago. While a large chunk of these gains have accrued to older home-owners who have paid off their mortgages, the biggest percentage gains have been achieved by those who bought homes with low-rate mortgages in the last two decades and, who, because of the leverage implicit in mortgage finance, have seen home equity gains far outpace even very large increases in home prices.

Nor is this just a recent experience. While the last five years have seen particularly balanced gains in wealth across financial and real assets, the net worth of American households has been rising strongly for many years. From the 1950s to the mid-1980s, the ratio of the net worth of households and non-profit organizations to nominal GDP fluctuated in a relatively narrow range of between 3.2 and 3.9 times. Since then, it has risen very steadily and, we estimate, hit 5.7 times in the third quarter of this year – an all-time high, if you exclude the very distorted years of the pandemic.

The Causes of the Wealth Surge
That’s a lot of numbers – but what is behind them?

When it comes to equities, the story, of course starts with earnings. The adjusted after-tax profits of all American corporations were fairly steady in a range of 5%-8% of GDP from the late 1940s to the early 1990s. Since then, they have increased steadily and, we estimate, will come in at 10.9% of GDP in the third quarter of this year. Broadly speaking, this has occurred due to declining GDP shares for corporate taxes, interest and compensation over the same period, reflecting, respectively, more favorable tax treatment, declining inflation and interest rates and diminished union power. Moreover, interest rates have served double-duty in the surge in equity wealth as a long-term decline in interest rates has enhanced the future value of all cash flows, including the future earnings of corporations. This has allowed P/E ratios to rise steadily in recent decades, albeit with significant drops in the bear markets of the 1970s and 2000s.

Home equity has also seen very strong gains over the decades, apart from the sharp decline in the Great Financial Crisis. A long period of low interest rates after that crisis obviously helped but so did low levels of construction, as lenders applied much tougher standards to home-builders and home-buyers alike. The share of U.S. homes that are vacant and for sale declined from 2.9% in 2008 to just 0.9% by the second quarter of this year, tying a record low for this series going back to the 1960s. This lack of housing on the market has helped sustain home prices even as mortgage rates have risen to more normal levels. However, the wealth surge has also helped, as parents with significant gains in housing and equity wealth have been better able to assist their children in buying homes.

Macroeconomic Impacts of the Wealth Effect
The wealth surge is having important effects on the economic environment.

First, it is helping sustain consumer spending. In theory, the $50 trillion gain in household wealth over the past five years could fund two and a half years of consumer spending. Of course, in practice, the vast majority of this wealth is not being used for that purpose. However, it does act as collateral for borrowing, particularly for richer and older households.

The gain in home equity should also be a powerful force in muting consumer credit problems. One of the underlying economic problems in the Great Financial Crisis was that households had so little home equity that, in many cases, it made sense to default and hand the keys back the bank. Today, homeowners have better options.

These gains in wealth should also reduce worries about retirement. In a survey conducted in January by the Employee Retirement Benefit Institute, just 21% of workers said that they were very confident about having enough money in retirement, up from 18% the year before but down from a record high 29% at the start of 2021. However, with inflation falling and the S&P500 now up by more than 30% year-over-year, this confidence should improve further by next January’s survey, a real psychological boost at a time of general consumer gloom.

There are, of course, some important limitations and drawbacks to the wealth surge.

First, it is not being felt evenly. Indeed, the one third of American families that rent rather than own their home have experienced none of the real estate gains and very little of the increase in stock market wealth. In addition, higher home prices have put the dream of home ownership even more out of reach for many American families.

Second, increased household wealth has come at a time of rising government debt. Indeed over the same five year period that saw a $50 trillion increase in household wealth, federal government debt rose by over $11 trillion. This additional debt is, for macro-economic purposes, a liability of the household sector since it will, eventually, have to be paid for by taxes.

Third, a surging U.S. stock market has attracted foreign capital, contributing to a higher dollar and a more-or-less permanent U.S. trade deficit. While the trade deficit may seem like a somewhat esoteric concept, its practical impact has been to undermine U.S. manufacturing employment and wages while gradually increasing our foreign debt.

Finally, as all of these themes have played out, they are contributing to greater inequality and a rise in populist politics. This political trend could ultimately lead to decisions that are damaging both to the economy overall and wealth accumulation in particular.

Investment Implications
Notwithstanding these concerns, investors have reasons to celebrate the wealth surge. While celebrating, though, they would be wise to consider what it means for their investment strategy.

First, they should recognize that the most recent leg of stock and bond markets gains have been fueled largely by rising valuations rather than long-term improvements in profit and inflation fundamentals. Moreover, these rising valuations, for the most part, have been concentrated in just one small sector of the U.S. equity market, namely mega-cap tech stocks. This should both limit potential gains going forward and increase the potential for a significant market decline.

Second, for many, now would be a good time to review their overall objectives and risk tolerance. Recent gains in markets will have allowed many to accumulate enough wealth to achieve their primary lifestyle goals of just a few years ago, which, most often, were to be able to fund a comfortable retirement. If this is the case, it may well be time to take some risk off the table by locking in gains rather than increasing risk by allowing a rising exposure to indices that have become more unbalanced and richly valued.

In short, while investors, economists and policy makers should recognize and celebrate the wealth surge, this change in the landscape is a reason to reassess strategies rather than to passively sit back and appreciate the appreciation.

It’s possible, in some cases, to get a managerial override from the branch manager if you don’t have a Contract of Purchase and Sale on your current home. \

Some private lenders will do this. Not sure if branch manager can over ride anything, the credit is underwritten and wherever the headquarters are for underwriting, for TD (or maybe it was RBC) I believe is in like Edmonton or Winnipeg I can’t remember now.

Buying first (when you can’t carry both) is a good way to die from stress especially now that there aren’t true unconditional offers anymore.

If you have a good career that you are advancing through and is fiscally responsible then you should be able to carry both when you are upgrading (e.g. first house in late 20’s early 30’s and second house in early to mid 40s). In that time period your income should have atleast doubled.

The 2 bed 1 bath homes are not what I expected in terms of the missing middle. I assumed the intent was family-sized housing on a smaller footprint—so 3 bedrooms. I’m uncertain what niche these 2 bed 1 bath homes fill other than being an alternative for folks that prefer not to live in a condo. As an alternative, the square footage loss is significant.

Been a while since I’ve been here, does anyone know if Barrister is alive?

Posting every day on VV.

I could really see the appeal of a small house like Marko posted. The devil is in the details obviously, if it was a bare-land strata type setup with low fees I could see this as an attractive option. Before I had kids I loved living in smaller spaces, they suited me just fine. Also, I’m a little phobic of shared walls because I’m an insanely light sleeper, so having none shared is a definite benefit. Been a while since I’ve been here, does anyone know if Barrister is alive?

really interesting never seen before product

A 617 sq. foot house on a strata lot, for $680k?

Not exactly cheap or “never seen before”. Sounds like smaller “war-time” houses. Is the “innovation” to put a few strata units onto a single lot? There’s existing small townhouses that would compete with that.

Seems like a great idea though for a small (solo) household looking for a little house. If there’s a parking spot and some green space it could be a winner. The best product would be a freehold (non-strata) version of the same thing.

The city should allow for smaller lot sizes to accomplish this—-> A tiny freehold SFH on a tiny lot, with a parking spot and some green space. And possibility to add-on more 2nd floor living space in future.

We maybe got lucky but the way we did it was to get our house basically ready to go on the market while we looked for another house. The day after we found a house we liked we listed ours and hoped that because our house was in the $1.2 million-and under-category it would sell much more quickly than what we were hoping to move up to. We got a good offer right away and then moved on making an offer on the new house immediately. It hadn’t sold yet so we got it.

Buying a house when you already own one in Victoria is no joke. It was much, much easier the first time around when we were buying as renters.

Some really interesting never seen before product is going to be coming to market in the next 24 months as different version of missing middle materialize -> https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/28048689/unit-3-568-kay-st-saanich-glanford

Going to be interesting pricing some of these.

Sale agreement is not necessary but obviously that would help with both approval and rates.

If you don’t need an unconditional contract then you qualify to carry for both homes which is totally different from bridge financing.

We just rented an Airbnb and it worked out great. It was actually like a little mini vacation before we had to move in to the new house and do a bunch of Reno’s. Just find a nice Airbnb in your current area (in case you move to an area you didn’t expect) with a 30 day notice to cancel and book it for 4-5 months. That with long completion on the selling end should work. Unless the buyers have strange expectations…

Bridge financing is really expensive and they generally want an accepted offer on your place from what I gathered when I was looking into it

If you want a nice place in Oak Bay and can’t carry both properties you pretty much have to sell first and take the risk of moving into an Airbnb for a few months.

Not necessarily, this is where “real” bridge financing can come into play.

One of those aquaintances of mine was able to sell their place a few weeks ago and got their price. However, they have been stuck because of limited inventory in the South Oak Bay and East Fairfield right now.

I have clients in the same boat. Down to 6 weeks to complete on their sale and now they’ve rented a three month Airbnb in a newer 2 bed 2 bath 2 parking spot condo in Vic West for a quite a reasonable price – $4,200/month which I think will be enough time to secure a place. Not sure how much they will be paying for storage of their stuff. At the end of the day it isn’t the end of the world and puts you in the best possible situation to secure a subsequent property.

If you want a nice place in Oak Bay and can’t carry both properties you pretty much have to sell first and take the risk of moving into an Airbnb for a few months. When a nice place priced within reason comes up you have no chance with a subject to sale. The thing with selling first is you also know exactly what you are working with in terms of sale proceeds and you can make very clean offers on the purchase.

One of those aquaintances of mine was able to sell their place a few weeks ago and got their price. However, they have been stuck because of limited inventory in the South Oak Bay and East Fairfield right now.

Marko, good stuff , always nice to hear positive news , it makes my day

Too early to call it a trend, but it’s the first time this year where we haven’t been notably above the sales rate from the same time in 2024.

Have definitbely seen offer activity on the ground pick up substantially. Not sure if it will translate into sales this week due to conditional periods, but defintively the following week.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/investing/personal-finance/article-buy-canadian-movement-starts-to-take-a-sizable-bite-into-us-business/