Freehold townhouses: The future of family-sized housing?
With the inevitable long run trend of deteriorating affordability for the typical house on a 6000sqft lot, I believe the future of family housing in most of our cities is some form of townhouse. Problem is: some people really hate the restrictions, costs, and extra hassle that comes with strata properties. It’s a model that works for large buildings with lots of common property to manage, but for townhouses I believe we need a freehold alternative.
Freehold townhouses are common in other countries, and even other provinces, with plenty of them in Ontario and (I’ve been told) also in Alberta. However in Victoria they are extremely rare. Out of the 1200 townhouses listed for sale in the last 12 months, only 8 were freehold. That’s about 1 in 150.
In fact looking back through 5 years of sales history, there’s only 45 listings for freehold townhouses, and a good number of those are actually strata properties that were entered incorrectly. There’s likely just a couple dozen freehold townhouses in the entire region.
- 900 block of Lobo Vale in Happy Valley
- 3300 block of Vision Way in Happy Valley
- 900 block Firehall Creek Rd in Langford
- And the odd one in Sidney.
Well that’s changing, and I recently went out for a tour of the Producers rowhomes in Royal Bay with GableCraft’s Director of Development, Ben Mycroft. That’s a set of 45 new rowhomes under construction and set to start completing in the new year. That project should roughly triple the stock of freehold townhouses in Greater Victoria. Note this article is not sponsored by Gablecraft and I’m not promoting this particular project but I wanted to find out why people aren’t building freehold townhouses here, and how we can change that. With efforts to increase gentle infill housing options, I think we need a non-strata replacement for the traditional house with the white picket fence that is more affordable but still suitable for families.
The Producers project is built towards the higher end of the market, with larger lots (~3500sqft) and detached garages. Thus prices are higher than strata townhouses in Royal Bay, coming in at the mid $900k range for the 1836sqft middle unit layout and just over the $1M mark for the 2365sqft end units. Both contain a ~500sqft suite in the basement which the developers are pitching as a way to make the units more attainable given the suite income can be used to help qualify for the mortgage. Strata townhouses in the same development are going for between $740k-$870k, but those units are smaller (1500-1600sqft). Comparably sized detached single family houses out there are about $1.2M.
But don’t get too hung up on the exact project. You could just as easily build a simpler townhouse design with freehold title, and costs should be similar to strata townhouses. Interestingly enough, Ben told me that part of the reason that the design is fairly fancy with a more traditional single-family look to the buildings is because Colwood required them to use an architect after interpreting the three and four-unit buildings as actually containing 6 and 8 dwellings since each townhouse has a suite. In BC an architect is generally required when there are more than 5 residential units in a building. This resulted in a bit of additional design and easement complexity as roof features sometimes overlap property lines. That’s a characteristic of this project, but it can also be done more simply. In Ireland we saw hundreds of simple freehold townhouses with plain roofs that showed a history of individual owners doing maintenance over the decades.
So why don’t we have more of these? Why are 99% of the townhouses set up with strata?
It’s a little unclear to me, but part of it may be just that we never started with a culture of freehold attached houses and that is self-perpetuating. I asked another developer why they weren’t building freehold townhouses, and he said buyers were scared off by the party wall agreements. Party wall agreements are the legal agreements that pertain to the shared wall between townhouses, including maintenance, alterations, repair, and insurance issues. While there’s certainly an education component for realtors, lawyers, mortgage and insurance brokers, there doesn’t seem to be much evidence that buyers are spooked by them. At least Gablecraft reports sales are going well and they may even convert some of their future single family lots to more freehold townhouses.
What if your neighbour paints their townhouse pink?
I asked Ben this question since it came up the last time freehold townhouses were discussed on this blog. Could a building scheme be registered to prevent owners from going to the Home Depot paint aisle on psychedelics? Maybe, but Ben mentioned they had looked into it, and a building scheme had limited power to restrict neighbours from things like non-standard colours. The reality is, just like in a detached house it’s likely a small risk you would just need to accept. After all, drive around a neighbourhood of single family homes, how many of them are pink?
The financial implications
Outside of the fact that a freehold property gives the owner more control and doesn’t require you to dedicate time to strata engagement, there are also financial implications that make them potentially more attractive. First, there’s a certain amount of regulatory overhead for strata corporations in terms of mandatory reporting like depreciation or energy reports, and other filing requirements that don’t exist for freehold properties. Some of the strata fees are going into that overhead rather than strictly the hard costs of maintaining shared property. At the same time strata corporations must build up reserves but are extremely limited in how they can invest that money, leading to low returns. When you buy a strata property, you are effectively paying for the property itself and also signing up for a series of monthly payments. If we calculate the present value of those payments, they can add up to a significant additional cost. Over a 15 year period, $350/month in strata is $50k in todays dollars, and that’s with a fairly generous assumption that strata fees will not grow faster than inflation.
So if you’re comparing a strata townhouse and a freehold one, you have to consider the cost of those fees. Of course you will likely have to spend some of that money in maintenance as well, but in a new build those costs should be minimal for the first 10-15 years. And of course for big ticket repairs as buildings age, stratas often rely on special assessments as well.
The other advantage of freehold is in getting financing. When qualifying for a mortgage, strata fees are considered in the calculation of how much you can borrow on your income, but potential maintenance is not (lenders typically consider heat, strata, and taxes). How much extra qualifying room that gives you on a freehold property depends on a number of factors (rates, amortization, insured/uninsured loan, etc), but at current rates each $100 of strata that you’re not paying should get you an additional $15-$20k in max mortgage approval. In other words, if you don’t have a $350/month strata fee, you should be able to qualify for around $50k more.
What about freehold townhouses as infill?
One might think that with the province forcing municipalities to legalize small infill housing, there should be an explosion of small freehold townhouses, but that’s not currently the case. As discussed in an earlier article, most municipalities opted to go for zoning implementations that were tailored to houseplexes rather than townhouses. The one exception that I know of is Burnaby, which allows this form via zero sideyard setbacks so multiple lots could potentially be combined in small freehold townhouse developments.
For the rest of the municipalities, we’ll have to wait to see if the infill zoning is eventually improved. For now, I hope more townhouse developments go the freehold route.
Also the weekly market activity:
| December 2024 |
Dec
2023
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Wk 1 | Wk 2 | Wk 3 | Wk 4 | ||
| Sales | 118 | 232 | 329 | ||
| New Listings | 163 | 311 | 383 | ||
| Active Listings | 2665 | 2563 | 2132 | ||
| Sales to New Listings | 72% | 75% | 86% | ||
| Sales YoY Change | +11% | +20% | +3% | ||
| New Lists YoY Change | +7% | +17% | +6% | ||
| Inventory YoY Change | +9% | +10% | +26% | ||
| Months of Inventory | 6.5 | ||||
December is always quiet and the market will wind down nearly to a stop as we get closer to Christmas. We’re running 20% ahead of the sales pace of this time last year, and new lists are also relatively healthy, up 17%. Inventory (all property types) is up 10% from a year ago. Overall though, percentages start to lose meaning when sales slow down, so we won’t know a lot about sustained activity levels until a couple weeks into January when the market picks up again.
Right now, the market is still tighter than it was a year ago, but it’s unclear if it will hold into the spring. If the fall strength continues we should be in for positive price pressure in 2025, but big picture uncertainty seems higher than ever. A new unpredictable US administration, a new Canadian administration, and the provincial government hanging on somewhat precariously. I can’t see that being great for consumer sentiment and though affordability has improved, it’s still not at levels where we’ve seen previous corrections find a solid floor. We’ll just have to wait and see. Start thinking about your 2025 predictions, soon we’ll review the forecasts from last year.
Meh, people with means will still compete for SFH in Fairfield, Oak Bay, 10 mile point, cadbro bay, broadmead and Cordova bay.
His wind has changed (again):
“There’s no reason to foresee a real estate collapse now that the CB is aggressively easing, Even a Tariff Man-induced recession is unlikely to knock house prices down, since that may also bring further rate reductions.”
Congrats ukeedude
New post: https://househuntvictoria.ca/2024/12/23/rental-market-data-looks-encouraging-for-tenants/
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/encampment-ruling-1.7418184
Sweet…..
Just sold our house in Ucluelet. 7 days on market. list 998k sold 989k. 1300 sq.ft modern rancher with 300 sq.ft. heated garage/home office built in 2020. Making the downsize move to our condo in Vic. My days of mowing the lawn and cleaning gutters are over and couldn’t be happier.
Groot, “Worst case for most people like yourself is that the loan becomes part of the kids inheritance. And for those thinking about loaning money to their kids, it should be thought of as a gift. In that way all of you may live in harmony.”
Not getting into the details but we helped out in other ways too (not cash), where they now have a house with FMV aprox $1,1 m and a mortgage of $600K (including our $$), suite pays near $2,000 / m.
They’re appreciative. Our $$ is secure, we trust our kids, and our harmony lies in mutual respect. Need to get our second born on the RE road and then we’re hoping to be the lender of choice going forward. There’s many ways to pass along inheritance.
I do agree that if you’re putting $$ up for your kids, don’t put up more than you can afford to walk away from amicably.
Enjoy your Xmas dinner!
The Democrats are leaving the U.S. in droves before Trump puts them in dungeons.
Was at the Q talking to a young lady, and she was saying bookings for the Empress for January is way ahead of last year and it was for the most part Americans . So I’m guessing tourism will get a big lift with the dollar exchange next year
I’m drinking hot wine tonight. My daughter beat me at crib for the first time. It has been a great day.
But yes Marko you’re right it’s the package of things I don’t like. Maybe on its own it would be ok but that’s not possible. It would be a lot of pain. So it’s like wishing to win the lottery or something.
A 50% correction will never happen so we are talking about hypothetical scenarios here but a 50% correction would only take us back to 2015 prices; the majority of people would still be above water in terms of equity. Underwater owners would stay put and slowly pay down their mortgage and more people could actually get into the market.
The 50% correction itself isn’t the bad thing, I think it would be great on its own; however, that can’t happen on its own. A 50% correction would mean a collapse in the economy which would be bad.
Another way to look at it, in another mythical scenario if development floodgates were opened and high-rises went up all over the price, Langford to Sooke was clear cut and new SFHs subdivisions went in and all of this caused a huge influx in supply which manifested itself in lower prices – would that be bad? Do we want to keep supply constrained to prop up unaffordable housing?
https://househuntvictoria.ca/2024/12/17/freehold-townhouses-the-future-of-family-sized-housing/#comment-123671
Agree with that.
Don’t agree with the implication that things would be fairer after a 50% correction. I just am not that optimistic I guess. I tell my kids life isn’t fair – because it isn’t. It’s best to just get around that and do the best you can with what you’re given.
100% agree.
But a family that has been diligently saving, has no help from parents, and has completely been priced out of the market as a result of housing prices wildly appreciating beyond their savings rate – do we not feel bad for them?
If the market turns and a family goes into negative equity assuming they’ve kept their employment really the major consequence is they can’t play the property ladder and they have to stay put and slowly pay off their mortgage until they are back above water. It isn’t the end of the world.
I don’t think we will see a correction especially for SFHs, but I do think it would be a positive on the whole.
Westerly, not worried at all. Worst case for most people like yourself is that the loan becomes part of the kids inheritance. And for those thinking about loaning money to their kids, it should be thought of as a gift. In that way all of you may live in harmony.
https://bc.ctvnews.ca/court-rules-b-c-law-to-push-through-vancouver-housing-project-is-unconstitutional-1.7156330
Just remember, they can be fought and you can win. Hopefully those trying to stop Dowler Place take note…
Groot, “What was once a sure bet that prices would appreciate at double digit rates that would enable the kid to refinance and pay back the parents never materialized.”
I wouldn’t worry too much for those families. We land roughly in your description having loaned our kid a decent amount of $$ towards their 2021 purchase, on top of their own savings. Their fixed interest rate is aprox 1.8% for another 2 years, the tenant pays over half of their mortgage, and they both make significantly more now than they did in 2021. They’re in a great place and dinner will be full of laughs.
I expect that to be the norm for most families for at least the next 1-2 years and the dropping interest rates should bring Holiday Cheer going forward.
Groot , crea has stated we up a couple of points year over year , so maybe not so flat
You should temporarily change your handle to I-am-the-Grinch.
Market prices have been flat for the last couple of years and that has to be of some concern to the parents that bank rolled their kid’s purchase by kicking a hundred or two-hundred grand. Worse if the parents used their home equity line. What was once a sure bet that prices would appreciate at double digit rates that would enable the kid to refinance and pay back the parents never materialized.
Should make an interesting Christmas dinner discussion.
LMAO that is funny but I am sure kind of true for lots of people. Gotta work hard and smart that is the key!
I’m sure a strong December will roll right into a strong January, and then we are off .Investors are well positioned and will do well next year
Dee, that family that bought will still be making their payments. End-users will do almost anything they can to not lose the family home.
Unlike investors or those that have very little skin in the game which could include the kids that got down payments from their parents. This is a self preservation society
https://youtu.be/Sgwa-Wc03RI?si=3SPBgbvBHxrbq7-3
It was you guys that wanted it with the woman’s lib movement.
I’m fine with it being two incomes. I mean it turns out it’s really expensive when half the society stays at home. Women working is how and why we have this standard of living. You’re welcome
Its even better than that. Now the Husband works, the Wife works, and the basement suite works to afford a house in Greater Victoria.
That hasn’t been our experience. In fact, I think it’s kind of alarming for society how quickly the goalposts on this have moved. It wasn’t much more than a generation ago that buying a house on a single income seemed more like the norm (I say “seemed like” as I haven’t looked at the stats – maybe it was more than 1 generation, but not much more?). Then the phenomenon kind of switched to women (yes I’m over-generalizing here, sorry) rightfully wanting a career of their own beyond necessarily being considered “trad wife”. Then very quickly that became both spouses having to work in order to afford a SFH in the core. Then both having to work to buy a SFH anywhere. And now both spouses working in order to buy much of anything at all anywhere in Greater Victoria. And in the meantime the kids have to be warehoused in daycare, it is what it is. And now there’s incidentally a new phenomenon of “trad wife” but that being the province of the instagrammer/perhaps wealthy subset.
I realize I’m exaggerating here & there, but I think the thrust of my point is pretty valid. The goalposts have moved very fast in a very short time, relatively speaking. It’s turning into kind of a giant social experiment, and not a good one in my view.
I don’t see anything significant on the horizon that’s going to change any of this, and so rather than moaning, yes help your kids get into the market as best you can, and buy whatever comes along that reasonably fits your needs and ability to pay, don’t wait for some mythical market crash that isn’t coming.
Depends on how bad I need the liquidity. I mean it’s weird that people always think they will be the ones that make it out on top.
And no I wouldn’t be sad for the investors but I would feel bad for the two young families with babies that worked their butts off and just bought recently. Especially if one of them faces a major life event that impacted their income (way more likely in some crash scenario).
This is whats going to happen first, and its already started.
You can still do that in Edmonton.
Of coarse they aren’t. Would you sell your stock if it dropped 50% and realize the loss? Or would you wait it out for a possible recovery.
You will have to distinguish between principal residence owners and investors. If a Wall Street/bay Street bank bets on markets, loses 50%, and goes bankrupt, would you feel sad? I wouldn’t feel sad for the bank or RE investors losing a lot of money. Do they share their profits when they make a ton of money when their bets pay off? Why should we feel sad when they lose money?
There are 180,000 dwellings and about the same number of households in Victoria. Maybe half (90,000) would fit your definition of a “decent place” for your household to live. Problem is most of those 180,000 households also want a decent (or at least a nicer) place and will be competing against you to buy that decent place.
So yah, wouldn’t it be awesome if everyone could afford a James Bay SFH on one salary. Problem is there’s a limited supply, which is why the price is so high. If someone can figure out how to make more SFH in James Bay at low prices, great, but until then you’ll need to outbid everyone else and pay a lot for a scarce commodity.
Yeah but life changes. People die. Divorces. Etc… A drop of 50% would have spin off consequences. I’m not into it.
Anyway doesn’t matter bc we agree prices aren’t crashing anyway. Especially sfh. Unless there’s some wild card event.
The market won’t crash, but I am saying if prices did drop 50% and the average SFH was 750k instead of $1.3 million I don’t think that would be a bad thing. 750k still wouldn’t be cheap.
That being said with a 50 year low in SFH starts I doubt we will see much downward price pressure if any. Could see upward price pressure in the short term on SFHs and definitely in the long term.
It has always taken two incomes to afford a house since I have been on this planet!
I am not seeing any rush for the exit doors when it comes to end-users. The vast majority of properties that have sold in the last month have sold for more than they were originally purchased. A small fraction of properties purchased after the summer of 2022 have sold for less but that is more likely due to these vendors overpaying in the beginning. But it is so small that the effects on the market is meaningless.
Even investors haven’t been spooked. A small rise in the number of them selling their units. Far fewer investors buying but those that own a rental are not rushing to the exit doors either. More of an orderly liquidation as they are more likely to sell their unit when it becomes vacant rather than re-rent the unit.
That’s a good thing as it allows renters to become home owners and keeps prices stable. And that’s how a well functioning market works.
The only market I have concerns about is the rental market. There is a lot of product coming to the market. That may have an effect on prices down the road depending how much the home owner is relying on the rent to meet their financial obligations. The data on rentals is almost non existent but what from what I have been monitoring for downtown condos those that began renting during Covid would now be able to find a comparable property to rent today for less. Although perhaps not enough of a difference to go through the hassle of moving and connection fees.
I’m not pro big crash but I don’t see how slow and steady would return us to 1970’s levels of affordability. One income should be able to afford a decent place without much fuss. It would take a lifetime of price stagnation and sizable wage gains to get there.
Personally I’d prefer stagnation in prices over a longer period than any crash. Same effect over long term (assuming wages rise with inflation) but much less painful.
I don’t like mass destruction to fix things. Like people who want to take down gov in the US. Myopic and never works as clean and simple as people seem to think.
Slow and steady wins.
Market crashes occur when everyone heads for the exits at once. This can happen in the stock market and is occurring as we speak in certain sectors. The real estate market is entirely different, people need to live somewhere and many home owners are oblivious to the value of their homes. Don’t expect any crashes in the near future, but a slow trickle down would not surprise me.
marko, wow good sales for this time of year, sort of puts all this market crashing gibberish to rest
If prices somehow fell 50% without a complete economic meltdown I think that would be good overall for society, imo. Yes, it would suck for those with negative equity but assuming they didn’t lose their jobs they could continue making payments and it would allow a lot more people to get into the market who are currently priced out. There shouldn’t be an expectation that you buy real estate and prices always go up and you player the property ladder.
How about a market decline in the places those retirees are coming from? Victoria was arguably a nicer place in the 1980’s but did that insulate it from the effects of the Vancouver bust? No.
Month Dec Dec
Year 2024 2023
Net Unconditional Sales 347 329
New Listings 383 383
Active Listings 2,408 2,132
@Frank it’s also called the heroin fold. Super sad.
Who?
The only ones posting about a crash in real estate prices on this site – are the bulls.
There is absolutely nothing coming from reputable sources to suggest a 30 or 50 percent crash. Fixed-rate mortgages are still reasonable, the dire effects of a wall of renewals in 2025 and 2026 have been ameliorated by most home owners that had low interest rate loans. Retirees are still coming to Victoria as they have been for the last 75 years. I don’t see any point in Bulls professing a false narrative of a market crash.
Groot, first time buyers should seek advice from owners. Where else are they going to get advice? From lifelong renters?
As for this being a “bull” site, the housing market has done well for owners for decades now. That’s not guaranteed to continue, but it is hard to not be bullish in the long term.
Max- That’s called the Fentanyl Lean, it’s an actual sign of Fentanyl abuse. Very sad, but until the government starts executing drug dealers, expect to see more of this abnormal behaviour.
Dee, it’s a rare event to find any one posting on this blog that doesn’t own a home. It’s the wrong place to come for meaningful help to buy your first home. Most first time buyers are in the condo market or the Westshore, I don’t see many posts on here about these properties. Instead it’s Oak Bay and high end housing that are the lion’s share of comments.
This is a Bull site with the commenters heavily biased towards ownership. Anyone posting or perceived to post against the status quo is met with a barrage of comments from real estate apologists.
If I had of listened to Garth Turner I’d probably be on Pandora trying to touch my head to the ground…Like this dude. (He listened to GT).
Victoria rated #1 city for retirement in Globe and Mail article today. I mean, in my opinion it would take something like natural disasters / lack of insurability to really change the market here. At least in the next few decades.
The people who are scared of a crash just keep missing out. I remember reading about that one couple that sold their house near uvic in 2016/17 (can’t remember the exact date) and rented it back from the new owner. They thought they’d cashed out and would buy something better for less once the bubble burst. In the news a couple of years later because couldn’t afford to get back in. Oops.
I’m guessing this spring market will separate the bulls and the bears . There is always going to be a portion of the population that is always waiting for a disaster ( Garth turner ) and I think that’s also many posters here
I would be super sad if house prices fell 50%. Actually we’d probably be ok but there’d be a ton of people – a vast majority younger and young families – that would be screwed. Imagine paying a majority of your hard earned money for a house that you can’t sell and is worth half what it was a year ago. I don’t wish that on anyone. Also don’t hate the players hate the game. If possible find a way in (ie buy) and stop complaining and being envious.
@Max the designer I work with now charges a lot for full design plans. Somehow I convinced her to just come to my house and walk around for a couple of hours and chat while we go through an idea. Costs much much less. I’m hoping we can do our kitchen for 40k all in. There’s nothing to move but I want new appliances. Not a lot of flooring. Boxes will come from Demxx. Will spend on backsplash to elevate it a little. It’ll be nice 🙂
“I just found out im a elderly boomer , sweet im a sexy grandpa , nice”
You go girl!!!
>> [re: as banks would tighten lending standards.] But the idea that banks will stop lending when prices go down just isn’t supported historically.
Q. Historically, If residential house prices fall, do banks tighten their lending standards?
A. [chatGPT] Historically, when residential house prices fall, banks often tighten their lending standards. This phenomenon is primarily due to increased risk and uncertainty associated with declining property values.
——-====-
Thanks for the discussion.
The opposite was true after the early 80’s crash in Vancouver. People who had no hope of buying a few years earlier were able to get into the market. I had no trouble buying uninsured. As for insured, as always the risk is on the insurer not the lender. Oh and I think you’ll find it was the case in Victoria too.
That said, I don’t think a 50% nominal decline is in the cards. Vancouver was 35% nominal 50% real back hen. But the idea that banks will stop lending when prices go down just isn’t supported historically.
Freehold townhouse for sale in new neighbourhood. Many more like this on the market.
https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/27750257/3121-burritts-rapids-place-n-ottawa-7711-barrhaven-half-moon-bay
I just found out im a elderly boomer , sweet im a sexy grandpa , nice
No. The audience is much thicker in a forced sale or foreclosure. For example private lenders have the attitude of “never let them see you sweat”. I have seen it all. They call a guy like me in to bring the house back up to a saleable condition. They are usually full of a bunch of shit that I have to get rid of. There is mould and mildew everywhere, and a shit ton of incomplete work.
Okay. Take immigration out. Everything would be back to normal and everyone would be working.
“It’ll go for fair market value. They always do. As is where is.”
FYI Max according to ChatGPT…
Forced sale value (FSV), also known as distressed sale value, refers to the estimated price of an asset when it is sold quickly under conditions of financial distress or urgency. This value is typically lower than the fair market value (FMV) because the sale must be completed swiftly, often with fewer potential buyers and less time for proper marketing.
Key Factors:
Time Constraints: The necessity to sell quickly usually results in a lower sale price.
Market Conditions: Inadequate time to find the best buyer can affect the value.
Buyer Leverage: Buyers may have more negotiating power, knowing the seller’s urgency.
FSV is often considered in situations such as foreclosure, bankruptcy, or liquidation sales. It provides a realistic estimate of what an asset might sell for under less-than-ideal circumstances.
If not for the government facilitating housing sales via CMHC insurance and other political gimmicks, banks would loan less money to fewer potential home buyers, and house prices would not have risen so high this century.
With the housing industry being a leading driver of employment, it is not surprising that both LPC & CPC governments have pumped the bellows with all sorts of financial & monetary incentives. Some here say: good, Laissez les bons temps rouler. Others see an asset bubble and investment dollars not going into helping improve Canada’s productivity deficit.
Time will tell if we are in expansion or peak; recessions are just part of the cycle (the longer the party, the worse the hangover).
LMAO, what a clown show. Internet armchair generals running wild.
According to Business Intelligence for B.C. (BIV December 19, 2024).
“After three years of surging population growth, 2025 could see a flat or even slightly declining B.C. population.”
“Canada has become wholly reliant on immigration-fuelled labour force growth to drive the economy”
Premier David Eby announced a public sector “hiring freeze” last week in response to concern that the government has been adding jobs at three times the rate of the private sector. The government responded that this is not a “hiring freeze” but a “temporary external pause” and will be hiring for critical positions giving primary consideration to positions outside of Victoria and Vancouver.
-Vancouver Sun December 20, 2024
Nunavut is a nice territory. you can legally go seal clubbing for all your food and pelts. Build your own igloo without a permit.
An Angus Reid Institute poll in June 2024 stated one-in-three (36%) of BC residents “seriously” consider leaving the province.
https://angusreid.org/bc-investment-migration-housing/
> When have I ever said my life is carefree.
I was referring to your retirement being “financially” care-free. Probably no one gets a care-free life…
My work involves high end residential renovations. Cordova bay, Cadboro bay, and Oak bay. We don’t touch new construction at all since there is no money in it. These people have money. They don’t want to sell or buy, they just want an updated house. We are very transparent with them, we tell them the areas that could contain hazardous materials. Most just want new flooring, kitchen, baths, windows, doors. No abatement. They understand selling and buying back in is a huge waste of time and money…Which it is.
We are bonded, insured, and have a really thick portfolio.
These people have already dropped 15-20k on design plans. We don’t advertise. These are referrals from a design team or previous clients.
> The dream of owning a home still holds a powerful cultural sway, but for many, the pursuit is giving way to pragmatism.
And what “pragmatic”replacement for the home-ownership dream have “many” come up with? Renting? There has always been at least 33% of Canadian households that rent, and I think the desire to own a home has only increased, including current times.
If Canadians fall in love with renting homes (as you suggest), the housing crisis would be instantly over, since most of the people in the “housing crisis” already have decent rentals which they could just keep. I can’t recall a single HHV post stating “I can’t afford to rent”
You are lumping everyone together, and I can only speak for myself.
I am only speaking to what I think house prices will do, and that is go up. I think we are in the “Roaring 2020’s”. I don’t share your expectioan of being “thrilled” if houses price drop 50%. I’m not selling or buying, but a 50% crash would crater the Canadian economy, and not turn out to be “thrilling” for anyone. Would likely hurt a lot of people, especially lower income that would be unemployed. And also first time buyers, that would likely be totally shut out of the housing market unless they could buy with cash, as banks would tighten lending standards.
It’ll go for fair market value. They always do. As is where is.
1258 Yates a 20 unit apartment building under a court order to sell.
https://cbrevictoria.com/listings/1258-yates-street/
Dude, you could be struck and killed by an e bike tomorrow… In one of those bike lanes you fancy so much.
Exactly, the jig is up. It was great well it lasted. All good things must come to an end.
Patrick, i’m not sure what my early retirement and stock gains has to do with creating FOMO. When have I ever said my life is carefree. I would be thrilled if home prices fell by 50%. Actually if stock prices fell that would be great to as I have just cashed out of a lot of my postions. Apple trading at a 42 P/E ratio with an 8-10% annual revenue growth makes no sense much like Canada’s real estate prices. One of the biggest mistakes is thinking that past performance will be repeated in the future, to be a successful investors you have to adapt to changes in the market.
I really don’t understand why elderly boomers like you and thursty are so horny for the market to heat up again?
Max, shite no , predictions are best left to zoltar lol. But I do like the idea of house prices going to the moon . It will be fun to watch the spring market
Canada’s housing bubble began forming in the early 2000s, driven by rapid urbanization and speculative investment. The government chose to encourage property purchases to generate economic growth, which led to a cultural mindset that investment in real estate was a sure-fire path to wealth. Developers raced to meet demand, creating cities filled with units built to meet investors needs and not end-users -symbols of speculative overreach.
This speculative frenzy has placed extraordinary pressure on younger buyers who rely on family wealth for down payments. Now we are paying for exuberance of the past as developers are exposed to vulnerabilities within the housing market. Construction projects left unfinished, and developers going bankrupt.
The common perception of property as a safe investment is being shattered. Housing, once considered a pillar of financial security, is now a risky gamble, forcing younger generations to reconsider before betting their future on an unstable market. The dream of owning a home still holds a powerful cultural sway, but for many, the pursuit is giving way to pragmatism.
If you’re using gas prices over the next 5-10 years as a gauge, house prices are going to do a moon shot. Thursty was right all along!
Next time you’re at the gas station, ask the cashier where gas prices are going in the next 5-10 years.
It’s the same thing.
WTF?
President-elect Donald Trump claimed the federal government appeared to be withholding information on the reports.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/12/18/drones-sightings-updates-new-jersey-biden-trump/77063366007/
I would like to think if we had a bunch of drones flying around VicPD something would be done about it…quickly.
They are more than likely at the round table discussing these matters as I type.
>> heck my original home has gone up over 500%… I only want to counter others opinions from people such as yourself that are trying to create FOMO
You don’t think that you repeatedly boasting to HHV about your huge RE/stock gains and care-free early retirement playing golf in the Uplands isn’t also spreading FOMO?
Well ten years of flat market would probaly mean a shite economy and larger government deficits . For the market to be flat would also mean stagnant or flat wages and no increase in constructions costs . So ol thursty says it won’t happen. A robust real estate market is too important to Canada and the powers to be won’t let it happen imo
Steve Saretsky is B.C.’s top clairvoyant realtor!
I’ve said the same thing for 6+ years straight on HHV. Buy a home that you can afford, and that you plan to live in for at least 5 years. And this advice is for families, who have or plan to have kids. When you accuse me of FOMO, the “missing out” that I’m referring to isn’t price appreciation, it’s the intangible benefits that accrue to a family with a stable home in a nice neighbourhood.
And I don’t want any family to miss out on that, do you? Are you hoping that you talk some young family into renting for ten years? Wouldn’t that have been a dumb move for you to have done yourself?
It sounds like you acknowledge that no home price growth is a possibility. I’ve never said don’t buy a home or that a home is a bad investment, heck my original home has gone up over 500% since I bought it in 2001 when we were starting out. I only want to counter others opinions from people such as yourself that are trying to create FOMO telling people that homes are going to continue their march upward again, starting the spring.
— After ten years of a flat market, a typical new homeowner has paid off about 30% of his mortgage. So on a $1 million mortgage, he has added $300,000 to his equity and net worth – tax free.
— after ten years of renting, a renter has nothing to show for the rental payments, and may have been jerked around by his landlord and forced to move his family to different neighborhoods/schools. If he’s managed to invest excess savings, his returns aren’t likely to be much if houses have been flat for ten years the stock market returns might be as bad or worse.
So the homeowner is in good shape with $300k equity, despite a flat market. And has provided a stable home for his family. The renter’s landlord has 10 years of his mortgage paid off, but who knows about the renter.
I’d rather be the homeowner in this “flat market” scenario. Any price appreciation is just “gravy”
Do you have a problem with that?
It’s not just me saying it Steve Saretsky says home prices may be flat for the next 5 or 10 years.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BJFtv5xOhsU
I’m guessing you’re bilingual? Do you visit Quebec often?
I have two nice ponchos but I only wear those around the house during the colder seasons. So comfy. I do like thrifting but not really here in Canada – more in France. It’s pretty common there and more like trading clothes when you get bored of them.
peter, car dealerships all pretty much work on the UP system, and maybe your right your salesman has probaly sized u up and wasnt too thrilled
How about starting a YouTube channel on Physics. I’d watch!
Maybe they’ve seen your type before. The ones who pay all cash and want a discount. Financing seems to be a moneymaker these days.
That’s funny! ok, if I see you wearing it, I’ll give you a shout-out. Watch out for a badly-dressed older guy. That said, some years ago, I moved on from Walmart clothing to Mark’s. A significant upgrade in looks and quality!!
And yeah, I still have a few tools I bought when I was 16.
Don’t get me wrong, I like nice things & have some. Just not clothing…
I have to agree with Max on this one. A lifetime of collecting tools and 40 plus years of incrementally adapting the house (stumbling into a dark hallway: add or move a light switch. Welder works better on the other side of the garage: Move the 240 volt outlet. Natural light missing: Add a window. building in storage, moving walls etc. etc.) makes moving a problem. I don’t have the time to do it all over again….. I probably have too many hobbies but metalwork and woodwork would not work in a condo or town house or even a high density SFH. Electronics is about my only hobby that could be done in a back bedroom without disrupting the neighbors (much).
I also agree with Marco. If you are doing what you love opportunities are always presenting themselves. You don’t have to pick up on all of them but sometimes it is so easy to reach out and pick the low hanging opportunities it almost hurts not to. Sometimes it is just to verify that yes that really is a viable thing to do.
We bought our youngest Son (16) a really nice sewing machine for Christmas a couple of years ago. He’s right into it, he goes thrifting and alters all his own clothes. He would never wear anything that came out of a retail store.
@Peter they were giving away free shirts at Tile Town (well I think you had to ask). Anyway I got one and it looks pretty good. Says Keep Calm and Tile On.
The only stuff I really care about is every single tool in my 600 sq/ft workshop, my Fender Stratocaster and my Marshall stack.
Unfortunately for those around me, I also couldn’t care less about how old or ratty my clothing looks. I do like nice cars. Always get a kick out of it when I go to a dealership to look and the sales people pretty much ignore me – which is my preference anyways.
Thurston I’m the opposite. I need a house to come back to. I really don’t care about the stuff. My poor partner bc I’m always trying to have less stuff. He has this precious lava lamp from when he was in his 20s. Seems like a fire hazard to me and totally doesn’t fit the vibe. But we can absolutely not get rid of it because he cares about it so much. And we drive a 2011 car that works great and we got for very cheap. I also have few clothes and like 1 pair of shoes for each season and a pair of fancy boots that my mother in law gave to me but I’ve never worn. I simply don’t care about stuff. It also makes traveling easier because I tend to not get targeted for pick pocketing etc.
Being a basic scientist means that extra time gets spent performing computations and writing papers which while enormously satisfying and stimulating does not alter pay a lick.
I may waste time watching Netflix, but I make up for it by not going to 4 hour strata meetings 🙂
all my stuff means more to me than my house. i have no problem selling a house but not the cars lol
Me too, but again if your solo…Why not? He probably drives Uber both locally and in Croatia in between showings. Along with uber eats, door dash, skip the dishes, etc…
Another wild wild 4 hour special general meeting last night in a strata I own in (so crazy I think it will make the news sooner or later)……a couple of crazy individuals can certainly turn an strata upside down. Also, interesting to see how few people have any critical thinking skills when they are provided mis-information.
A lot of my income sources are simply from genuine interest in things and randomly spinning those off into extra income. Years ago I made a YT video on a topic of interest with no goal other than to provide my opinion on the subject matter. One email from a viewer lead to another and over the course of few years and I ended up with an online business that generates $1,000 +/- per month with approx. 30 minute of input per month.
More recently, I thought it would be interesting to monetize my crappy YT channel so I could see the analytics and simply how it all works in terms of payment, but I didn’t have enough views to monetize so I started posting videos in Croatian on Croatian real estate as they are more watched than my English videos. Ended up monetizing the channel ($40/month) but a lot of people also started emailing me from Canada, US, Australia, New Zealand about returning back and buying property. Which lead to necessitating a need to have my real estate license in Croatia so I can get paid which lead having to study Croatian laws, land title system, urban planning, etc., which lead to now working with a partner on a MLS system in Croatia, etc., which one day we hope monetize by charging agents in Croatia a monthly fee to use the system.
I had a zoom call today with a client in Sydney Australia and we are working on finalizing a 2.2 million Euro deal in the development -> https://www.adriaeuropegroup.com/en/page/diamond-marina-zadar-borik/2
I find it more interesting than watching Netflix. Client has a super interesting business in Australia so I get to hear about that, etc.
That’s impressive. I’ve got so much junk I wouldn’t know where to begin to pack it all up.
We don’t have a lot of stuff (if you watch my YT videos I am wearing the same crap H&M t-shirts/shirts I was wearing 10 years ago), so just move it down to the storage locker. Some of my life experience include delivering fliers, mixing mortar and carrying rocks in the rain, and working nightshifts in ICU so $10k and less than an hr to move personal belonging to storage isn’t a big deal – rather do than than go work nightshifts. So far in all the stays I’ve had I’ve never once had to intervene or do anything in the 30 to 90 day stay so one guest is in it is a pretty decent windfall every day for doing nothing.
How refreshing to see a respectful political discussion online, especially now that the the 2-minute hate part is over. (Emmanuel Goldstein lives again).
Strata, but reasonable on the fees so far. $330ish for the 1,000 sq/ft/ townhomes.
You can bitch and moan all day long about all three levels of the Government. At the end of the day what can you do about it? If you wake up every morning pissed off about how all three levels of the Government are fucking you over, more and more with each passing day, I suggest yoga.
Ya, it was more likely to go to another election and return another minority or possible majority. The agreement wasn’t holding because the Liberal and NDP leadership were too incompetent causing the agreement to quickly fold ending with Gilles Duceppe asking the others on an elevator “how they were so stupid, to manage fucking it up” resulting in the Bloc not dealing with them anymore and Stephane Dion saying “we are not not use to being in opposition”…..
>> but he is already worth $78 million
Unlikely. His net worth is undisclosed. And I hope you’re not relying on click-bait “what’s the net worth of XXXX” sites as your only source. A high profile politician would be subject to lots of people posting unverified info about him.
It was very controversial. Harper did it because his government was about to face a confidence vote six weeks after an election, and there was a Liberal-NDP agreement to form a coalition government.
Airbnb would be great if you were solo and owned a skybox (with secured parking equipt with EV charger) and wanted to bolt to Croatia four times per year.
The NPV of the pension is probably worth $2-3 million, but he is already worth $78 million. It’s more to do with getting as much as possible from the Liberals in terms of policy – dental plan, low cost daycare, $250 for the unemployed/seniors, etc. While you may disagree with NDP’s policies, the last 6 years have been very good for NDP. They have been able to achieve many of their goals (including Covid payments) by bargaining hard.
Well, except Harper was winning the next election either way, mostly parliament was not functioning then. It wasn’t a constitutional crisis back then not would it be now. The government can argue it just had 3 successful confidence votes two weeks ago (When it would have mattered if Jag joined it). Now there’s a number of new cabinet ministers including Finance and TB and the government needs to set forth a new agenda (Throne speech) and prepare (Budget) to be tested in the house. So, it’s easy to assert it would be a natural time to prorogue as it it is usually done before a Throne speech. This will be just a bit extended.
So not worth it for so many people, but it will be worth it for some – they are already licensed and listed on AIrbnb – including what are clearly family homes with kids.
Ah, the Harper maneuver. I guess he could try, but I don’t a think a constitutional crisis would be helpful to the governing party.
They will prorogue any start a new session.
The House of Commons resumes sitting on the 27th of January. Seems it will happen well before March or April.
Ya, just like the order for Canada Post workers happened after the confidence votes to allow the NDP to save face, saying they are now going to vote non-confidence when the government likely won’t test Parliament until March or April with a Throne speech and budget (when it was setting up for a defeat anyways). So, everyone enjoy the next 3-4 months of the new Federal cabinet ministers travelling the country making spending announcements before the spring election. Then the throne speech, budget and announced spending is the new platform for the government to campaign on. Jag just did Trudeau’s work for him again. It’s just hilarious
It is expected to coincide with Jagmeet’s pension eligibility.
It wouldn’t be. The “personal cost” referenced were just reasons for the landlord not to do it in the first place.
Why would the cost of a landlord moving be on a tenant?
Trump and Elon are going to be happy to c Trudeau and the liberals gone . I guess he’s on a winning streak lol
My goodness, how about the personal cost of pack/prepping your entire personal residence so you could be turning it over to strangers for a month? $12k of revenue is about $6k after tax. For most people, it would be a hard “no” to that “opportunity”. Likely only possible for a single person living in a condo. I can’t imagine doing that with a spouse and/or kids, for a measly $6k. Money is nice, but let’s not put it ahead of everything else.
Yes, that means almost certain to be an election within the first 6 months of 2025. And yes, a Conservative majority victory should be a confidence boost for Canada.
“But but but I keep hearing they’re supposed to slash immigration”
News Flash in case you missed it some month ago, the Liberals only reduced immigration levels after an internal report from Stats Canada showed, like foreign student applications, aggregate numbers of applicants was already below the previous targets.
Immigration is akin to a giant ponzi scheme, essentially robbing peter to pay paul. Making investments in real estate based on immigration is a fools game.
The whole residence I think. Mind you that’s still a lot of coin.
But but but I keep hearing they’re supposed to slash immigration.
Frankly I don’t expect much effect on the RE front.
All right, ndp pulling support for liberals so maybe a spring election on the way . A Con victory will be good news for the real estate market, up elevator
Wait so you’re renting out rooms in your principal residence for $10k-12k for one month?
I also really like the rowhouses at 230 Wilson. Very nice. Are they freehold?
https://bclawreview.bc.edu/articles/590/files/63ad8d8b8d4c2.pdf
It could vary depending on the design of the houses. A concrete wall with no plumbing or electrical embedded in it would go a long ways to avoiding issues.
Often with townhouses the exterior features overlap from one unit to another, making it hard to determine who is responsible if not a strata association.
The only “party wall” of concern these days is along the 49th parallel. I can totally see why Trump is concerned with the current “party wall”.
Perhaps because it’s so minor compared to condo and HOA issues.
12th Amendment.
The article doesn’t touch on the “party wall” issue.
I like those too. Upstairs is a two level townhome around 1,000 sq.ft. and downstairs are 500 sq.ft. condos. I have a friend building 20 of such down the street on Wilson but he couldn’t make the financing work for strata so he is doing purpose built rentals. Pour footings this week. He bought the properties around five years ago and has being working on re-zoning since day one….it has been a struggle. Will essentially be 7 years purchase to keys to tenants.
It is a loophole. The prohibition is on being elected president more than twice.
Back in the day, it was suggested that Bill Clinton could have done that.
Not if they are big balls of steel…Like Trumps!
He could not. The vice president cannot be someone who is ineligible to be the president.
Plus Mitch McConnell hates Trump’s guts.
Balls are soft and squishy and get hurt easily.
Another swing and a miss. 35 is the minimum age to be president. And no, it won’t be Elon Musk either because he is not a natural born US citizen.
There’s always coked-up Don Jr though…
Trump can run for vice president, under Mitch McConnell. Then assume the presidency if/when McConnell expires.
You have to admit he has big balls. We need an equivalent individual with big balls running the show up here.
Trump can’t run again.
He will be only 82 when he runs again , and who knows baron is being groomed to take over . Give me some money and I would happily be the 51 st state lol
I agree with this. Trump won’t be in another election in 4 years, and he may turn out to be a 4-year lame duck. Because lots of republicans hate him. With his dumb ideas torpedoed by all the democrats + a few Republicans. Typically the president is more of a liability at mid term election, so I don’t think the republicans will fear him then either. I think lots of these Republicans will (finally) have the spine to stand up to him, and vote down anything they don’t like.
For example, his idiotic idea to give himself no debt limit, how’s he going to find close to unanimous support among congress (or Senate) republicans for that?
Regardless of what you think, presidents are limited to two terms in office. This is in the constitution. He’s done after this term.
It also seems his grip on power may be more tenuous than you think, especially after today’s debacle with congress.
Finally, let’s be real here. The Liberals are largely responsible for their impending demise.
Thursty, Trump is not bringing down the Liberals. (62 Billion) could be having an impact though. It will be interesting to see how Poilievre manages the Orange Man. I am personally shocked that trump made it this far – as is he.
Trump picks on weakling countries like Canada and Mexico. I don’t see China or Russia groveling to Trump. Or even really France or Germany.
Groot , I think trump can stay in as long as he wants , he has a real grip on America . I am impressed he can say whatever he wants to any country and they roll over. He’s single-handedly bringing down the liberals , fascinating
Covfefe!
I like row houses. Whoever built the ones at 230 Wilson Street – I always admire them when I pass by. Not sure how they are to live in but the outside has style – reminds me of Montreal.
https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-rise-and-resurgence-of-the-great-american-row-house
< Throughout U.S. history, the row house has endured and adapted as an underappreciated model for accessible urban housing.
T bone, u lost me , but thanks for the tips on what someone might want to leverage on
According to ChatGPT, If the president is convicted by the Senate then they are immediately removed from office. It would only require 13 republicans to vote for conviction. Trump has alienated more than that since the election.
I Hope you’re right Groot. Worst case scenario is he doesn’t stroke out or gets kicked out then refuses to leave in 4 years. That’s when the real problems would start. Still sure he will probably be too busy to pay much attention to us. Let’s hope!
Marko is just wired to make money. That manifested itself even back in his high school days, when he gamed the Subway menu.
A septuagenarian strung out on Adderall, and just one vigorous hand job from a massive stroke makes a tweet at 3 in the morning and half the population of Canada takes him seriously.
I doubt Trump will finish his term. Either the GOP will impeach him or he’ll stroke out.
No thanks. I think a smarter idea would be for both to use this as an opportunity. Say people who are unhappy and think the other side has it better can renounce their citizenship in A in exchange for citizenship in B (with certain caveats) – for say a 6 month period. Then trump can take all the wackos that want to move to US and stack the deck indefinitely for GOP and we can get basically all the californians and stack the deck here for liberal/NDP indefinitely. win-win. (I’m joking btw).
Shite let’s just sell Canada to the U.S , I would be happy to take the cash
Trump just says he wants all of Canada but really he wants the arctic. What a mess …
“Owning a house will probably make u a millionaire”
The traditional definition of a millionaire doesnt include your principal residence. That 1MM figure to aspire to from 20 to 30 years ago is now around 5MM investable assets (excluding your home) that would make you wealthly.
Those are the worst, HR screens automatically screens those resumes to our group. Our firm also canned quite a few people that managed to land these executive director jobs at government afterwards.
An easy way to lose a lot of money is to get divorced.
“Not for most everyone, but u can’t build big wealth without using leverage.”
Bitcoin, Nvidia, Tesla, Meta to name a few.
LMAO, remember it’s CAD $
An easier way to obtain wealth is just to marry it. That applies equally to both men and women.
https://youtube.com/shorts/3n-yU_BpA4M?si=6sRPb8GCjkw-pFP3
Definitely meant as some type of sarcastic insult, the odd thing is that I think Marko muted introvert so why bother insulting someone that muted you?
Lol spending 15 years living in a POS house with rotting fences and tenants in the basement just to pay off a mortgage early, sounds like a fun way to enjoy life. Probably enough to make someone sour towards life that they feel the need to mock the more financially successful people to in order to cope.
Ya , just owning a house will probably make u a millionaire , only thing is a million is now very ordinary . Not for most everyone, but u can’t build big wealth without using leverage.
> Ive observed that there are 2 ways to get very wealthy. First is to inherit it. Second is to run a very successful business.
The third way is to just live in or emigrate to an affluent country like Canada. Where a high % of the population are millionaires, and most got there without inheritance, through some combination of business, real estate, high paying jobs and investments. Those same efforts in less affluent countries don’t achieve the same results, which is a big reason people come to Canada.
Agreed, I don’t think anyone would be offended to be called a “money-making machine”. They are likely proud of their efforts if they tell us all about them on a housing forum.
Trump is driving a hard bargain and Trudeau is AWOL. 🙁
We’ll be lucky to get four states.
As long as they pay their taxes, of course, nothing wrong with it. As a country, we need immigrants, and I’d rather have some with drive and maybe even sharp elbows to an extent, so that we don’t bog down even more in a sea of gov’t-dependant moralists.
“Not sure anyone is sacrificing anything in either scenario. Most people with pensioned jobs are a little more risk averse and may even have some disdain for entrepreneurs. Opposite with entrepreneurs who are okay with greater risk to not have to work in a pensioned job where initiative and hard work don’t always lead to direct personal reward – and where they may be unable to tolerate the inefficiencies and lack of autonomy this can create.”
–
From my experience this is true, many government workers are very financially conservative and anxious about money and taking risks so they cling to the security of a “guaranteed job” regardless of whether it leads to job satisfaction all the while focused on that pension at the end of their 35 years. This could be because of how they were raised or just their natural comfort zone. They can be envious of the entrepreneur as its the opposite to their nature for taking risk and as pointed out they show distain for them perhaps out of jealousy and may even want to see their rewards from hard work heaviliy taxed. Unfortuantely government and union employment promotes laziness and complacency and are becoming a larger portion of our workforce and risks takers less so.
I worked on commission most of my life and was highly compensated because of income instability.
Nicely done Marko!
Exactly. And like it or not as a society we need both (risk adverse pension seekers and those willing to take more risk and perhaps get greater reward).
The same amount it takes to save more than average while working in a job that gives raises over time while your mortgage payment stays the same. Choosing not to buy a newer car is not a sacrifice in my books but Introvert likely is good at not overspending vs average which does take self-discipline.
While saving and paying down debt is one way forward, there is nothing wrong with seeking to also increase returns through hard work and initiative. You can do this by working more, finding opportunities, then analyzing and maximizing them. You will be more motivated to do this if you have no pension because you have to create your own.
Not sure anyone is sacrificing anything in either scenario. Most people with pensioned jobs are a little more risk averse and may even have some disdain for entrepreneurs. Opposite with entrepreneurs who are okay with greater risk to not have to work in a pensioned job where initiative and hard work don’t always lead to direct personal reward – and where they may be unable to tolerate the inefficiencies and lack of autonomy this can create.
Ive observed that there are 2 ways to get very wealthy. First is to inherit it. Second is to run a very successful business. My partner had relatives who are Uber wealthy. They are large business people. I never interpreted introvert as insulting Marko at all. I read it as somewhat admiring his ability to generate money. It is cool that some people can do that. Just like there’s nothing wrong – at all – with having a normal middle class life and job with pension.
I could tell stories but some of the happiest people I’ve ever met were dirt poor.
To be fair, you can make the same argument about small businesses (and yes, the regulatory environment is a factor, so bureaucrats get some of the blame).
I admire Marko’s initiative. I’m one of those people who put it all on the line with small business ventures, made good decisions & bad (had to re-started more than once), and worked hard to make my own pension for retirement.
Since moving to Victoria I’ve met more than a few morally superior bureaucrats with their government pensions, imo they’re not morally superior (nor do they help much with Canada’s low labour productivity problem).
Implying that this person does not work hard or have initiative because they are presumed to be employed in the public sector seems a little negative and insulting as well. It probably takes some initiative + hard work/sacrifice to pay off a mortgage 15 or 20 years ahead of schedule.
@tbone that is really market dependent. There are markets when it’s normal to forgo an inspection. If you have a clunker only sell when it’s hot. If you have an Airbnb in your primary residence don’t rent it short term for a year before you sell. Etc all good advice.
“This is true, which is why I reached out to my plumber. Thankfully TD doesn’t ask any questions so they are also cool with it.”
Poly B will almost certainly be flagged during home inspection during sales process. People just don’t like buying a house with that level of risk attached and will almost certainly ask for either compensation or removal.
Kevin Murdoch says he asked for the thing the Province is threatening to do:
Oak Bay ‘way off track’ for new housing targets: minister
https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/oak-bay-way-off-track-for-new-housing-targets-minister-9978021
We have one small area with poly B. Was told by plumber to leave it. He said it can fail if there’s abrupt change in temperature. He said not to worry almost never happens. Problem will be solved when we move the washer/dryer during kitchen renovation anyway.
This is true, which is why I reached out to my plumber. Thankfully TD doesn’t ask any questions so they are also cool with it.
“Well we’re going to Montreal and Ottawa and already have our airbnb booked there. So still allowed in many other places (for now).”
Ottawa has essentially the same restrictions on STR as Victoria. This follows a backlash against rogue STR’s including one murder scene.
https://ottawa.ca/en/business/permits-and-licences/short-term-rentals
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/gilmour-street-airbnb-shooting-guilty-1.6482019
Not up on all the details, but there has also been a crackdown in Montreal following fire deaths and other problems.
Just the latest in chapter in the bio of Marko, the money-making machine.
I don’t understand the negativity. It’s almost as though initiative and hard work are something to mock. Shipping a car overseas is work. Finding opportunities is also work plus risk.
If you want a job you can get paid by tax dollars to post here and go home and ‘relax’ because you have a pension – well fine – but not morally superior imo.
This was a specific case where it was first generation Poly B (1987 yr built) with three leaks in a 12 month period so insurance became an issue. Unfortunately also a two level home without a crawlspace.
I’ve seen the pipes themselves, but rare. Poly-b is becoming a bit of an insurance pain. Even with copper fittings fewer companies will insure…down to Thunderbird, BCAA and a couple of others.
The plumber call is correct. Poly-B is just as good as PEX if properly installed with copper fittings. What caused Poly-B to fail in the past was improper crimps that cracked the inferior plastic fittings.
Are people really gutting their houses to remove Poly B? I asked my plumber whether I should get mine removed and he said not worth the effort, especially if they have copper fittings (mine do). He’s only seen one fail in ~15 years and it sounded like an anomaly case. Curious what others are seeing.
Shipping cars to Croatia in his spare time 🙂
Just the latest in chapter in the bio of Marko, the money-making machine.
remarkable in how good of shape the original tiles are
Fingers crossed for that (and for no big roots).
The city crew told me if we see any roots on their side of the line, call the city for a free repair.
$189 seems reasonable when you factor in time to arrive/gas/van/equipment. My parents have a 1950s house in the Oaklands area and they had to replace a toilet in the suite a few months ago and I just hired a plumber who could do both (replace toilet and scope while toilet was off). It was remarkable in how good of shape the original tiles are.
A neighbour down the way has the city digging up their sanitary lateral because of a root ball. Believing that a stitch in time saves nine, I thought I’d get mine scoped as it goes under a tree too.
After a four calls to established outfits, a simple scope (through a clean-out cap) costs from $375 to $189.
I personally think you are nothing more than sitting duck for the CRA if you operate an air bnb anywhere in Greater Victoria.
Doesn’t look like a principal residence situation thought. COV allows you Airbnb your principal residence 4x per year for any length of time. Highly doubt if you rent it out for four weekends a year to make some extra $ that the CRA is coming after you (in terms of re-sale, obviously you have to pay income tax on the profit from the stays).
Here’s an even better review of the decision: https://www.mccarthy.ca/en/insights/blogs/mccarthy-tetrault-tax-perspectives/mix-short-and-long-term-rentals-look-out-gsthstqst-implications
yeah this is the same one: https://www.ctf.ca/EN/EN/Newsletters/Canadian_Tax_Focus/2024/2/240211.aspx
I mean it is different if it’s your primary residence…but oddly if you read the synopsis i linked above the CRA seems to define anything under 60 days as short term/business (if I’m reading that correctly).
Not really, you are probably referring to recent court rulings -> https://www.thestar.com/real-estate/homeowners-who-regularly-rent-on-airbnb-and-other-sites-must-pay-13-tax-on-property/article_d085d5e0-9166-11ef-a141-73e5557f452e.html#:~:text=A%20recent%20ruling%20by%20the,the%20home%20up%20for%20sale
All the rulings I’ve read people were doing less than 30 days on an ongoing basis.
Are you worried about tax implications? I did see a case where two brothers had an Airbnb and there was a disposition and massive tax bill. I’m hoping the feds don’t go down that road in a big way for a few reasons but am aware that it might. Let me see if I can find the case. If I remember correctly it was the reasoning that was especially worrisome
and as I annoyed as I was having to provide a bunch of info to Airbnb when I think about it it further eliminated a bunch of hosts that didn’t want to jump through the hoops.
I think this has more to do with purpose built rentals coming to market recently…it must be in the thousands.
Dockside Rental Tower – over 100 units
Wedge – over 150 units
etc.,
Makes me want to live in a tent in the backyard for a month. One day when we are sans enfants …
No, principal residence (gets me around the 90 day BC rule) in the COV with a 30 day strata bylaw minimum and all info now required by government registered with Airbnb. I fall within all the rules, but my competition (non-principal residence Airbnb) have been eliminated which has lead to a large increase in prices.
Do I think the ban is BS, yes I do but it created an opportunity which I am taking advantage of.
Do I think the government is one huge mess and we are screwed? Yes I do, however, if the Canadian dollar drops further I am taking advantage and shipping cars to Croatia for re-sale.
I’ll adapt even if I don’t agree with policy.
Well we’re going to Montreal and Ottawa and already have our airbnb booked there. So still allowed in many other places (for now).
It IS weird that we can’t rent out our place for the 2.5 weeks that we will be away. I mean, it’s not removing squat from the long term market if we do that.
But, that being said, and at the risk of starting an argument, I do support more rules around airbnb’s. My friend is trying to rent out her rental. She reduced rent by $500 and still didn’t have a single applicant. I know it’s partly the time of year but overall I think tenants are less desperate – and that’s a good thing.
… is this an admission of guilt?
We just don’t like being productive in Canada. 30+ day guests I’ve had this year
Elderly couple from Ottawa visiting their son/grandkids in Victoria
Military transfer from overseas, young family, stuff on a containership, needed to stay somewhere for 30 days while waiting for container to arrived.
Totally reasonable cases for shorter term rentals. On top of that, the owner/landlord has to pay huge income taxes on the rental income.
But no, let’s ban it so prices go through the roof for the user and owners leave their places vacant serving no utility for anyone.
As I said….summer hotel prices absolutely insane in Tofino/Vancouver/etc., for the upcoming summer. Canadian dollar will be in the crapper so have fun going to the use alternatively and while you are away government puts in restrictions so you can’t rent your place.
I follow this closely as I’ve bought multiple properties in the EU since 2016 and $0.67 isn’t too bad actually if you look at the last 10 years. I had to complete on property in Zagreb in 2017 at $0.67 exchange rate. $0.77 was a short pop, but luckily I had a pre-sale finished June 2022 and was lucky enough to send over funds at $0.75.
I think there is downsize room to <0.65 which is what I would like to see to ship a few cars over.
We’re going away for 18 days. I know how to pack it up but I don’t think we can list at all in Esquimalt because it’s under 30 days so not allowed. Too bad because imagine a family coming – we have 4 beds, 2 baths etc and 10 minutes direct bus to downtown.
That also creates discounts locally. I bought my house in a recession for a song in 1998.
CAD has gone from $ 0.68 in September 2022 to $0.55 per GB Pound now.
It has gone from $ 0.77 in August 2022 to $0.67 per Euro now.
It was $0.62 per USD in February 2002 – the lowest in recent memory.
It was down right mean. Talk about pulling the rug out from these now sorry investors that may never recover from such a blow.
With a 65 cent dollar maybe next year the str ban was just stupid , a gift for hotels and that was pretty much it .
and Airbnb is essentially banned, I think I am going to try 12k/month for July/August. Already have March booked at 10k. For people that don’t have a ton of stuff or can lock off a room or similar and like to travel really good opportunity out there with competition eliminated and not everyone wants to stay at a hotel especially 30 days.
Yep next year Vic will be flooded with American tourist at 65 cents , great for the economy. Sunny days ahead
I bought a new M4 in the US back in the day and shipped it to Croatia. It was a pain getting the “homologation” done in Croatia, had to change the lights and a few other things but my cousin ended up making 13,000 euros after expenses.
Interesting how a car made in Germany can be 1/2 the price in the US versus Europe.
If the CND dollar starts approaching .65 business opportunities will open up for people.
Back in 2007 I bought a new Subaru in Port Angeles with full waranty and saved around $14,000, shortly after Subaru stopped allowng people to cross border buy new cars.
Seeing people from the US on online forums eyeing up cars in Canada now. Too bad CND is holding in there against the Euro, my cousin wants me to ship him three Golf Rs to Croatia but we are waiting for a bit more softness against Euro. Brand new Golf R currently half the price as in Croatia.
The view of a real estate agent when US buyers were buying in Canada at a 40% discount. I think we hit 63 or 64 cents during the 90s at some points. Really not great for anyone else, but it tends to mask Canada’s poor productivity because we discount everything. Some people just like having their standard of living eroded as long as it seems they have more money.
When was that?
The most recent in history that CAD was well below $0.70 USD was during the early 2000s, and if the economy were doing great with 7.65-6.16% unemployment rate the BOC wouldn’t have drop interest rates from 5.75% in 2000 to 2% by 2002, and again to 0.25% by 2009.
I can’t say any of my clients have been scared off by party wall agreements over the years. I am more scared of psychopaths on strata councils personally.
Regarding the fee simple townhomes…..most examples I see around the world the townhome feeds onto the public road and we simply don’t have many of those scenarios in Victoria.
I’ve had buyers buy a number of these fee simple townhomes in Victoria over the years including this year I had clients buy one of these Lobo townhomes. Once again, they feed onto a public road, see street view -> https://maps.app.goo.gl/UfJP4obrtwVgckzz5
98% of the time a development in Victoria doesn’t have the frontage for the townhome to all feed onto a public road; therefore, I am curious how would you setup the driveway/lane? Some sort of easements or something?
I am a big fan of strata duplexes (99% of the time non-conforming) but not everyone would agree -> https://www.reddit.com/r/VictoriaBC/comments/18ylxz5/just_a_warning_to_you_guys/
Just popped into my Linkedin feed from Island Health
“Recruitment Lead for Corporate Service roles. CPHR…”
Posted
“Island Health – Vancouver Island Health Authority is hiring a Program Assistant. We are looking for someone”
So we have a non-clinical position whose job it is to recruit more non-clinical people, lol.
Qt, I’m a fan of a dropping Canadian dollar , trumps going to have a problem with inflation and a U.S dollar that’s too strong . Canada had a great economy with a 60 cent dollar in the past
Yes there are strata titled condos that have no monthly strata fees. Most are older character style houses that have strata titled the main floor, the lower level and perhaps the top floor. Similarly there are side by side duplexes with separate legal descriptions but neither owner pays monthly strata fees either. There are a few in Victoria but they are not common.
A non-conforming strata typically refers to a small multi-unit building that doesn’t fully comply with the Strata Property Act in that they lack formal meetings, bylaws, strata fees, and other standard governance structures.
The owners, although legally required to comply with the Strata Property Act, have chosen not to do so. Which is fine but the lack of a formal structure can lead to legal and financial complications, when it comes to maintenance and repairs. For example if you live in the lower level and the roof has to be replaced. Who pays for that? The main floor owner wants to split the cost but you refuse. Then their only option is to sue you in court.
The demand for the older character conversion homes that are non conforming strata is not favorable to this arrangement. These older home conversions usually take a longer period to effectively market and sell at a discount relative to similar conforming strata properties especially in slow markets. But they are a first step into the market for someone looking for an alternative to the traditional strata home.
A decade or more ago there was a resurgence in converting character style homes to stratas but it was short lived as the cost to gut the home down to the studs and bring the property up to new building codes and then sell the units at a reasonable profit was iffy.
Freehold townhouses sounds too good to be true, because if it is a great thing then we wouldn’t have strata at all. Personally, I would borrow, beg, or steal to get an additional $100-$150K to pay for a starter SFH overt the $900K-$1M townhouse headache.
Thurston, get ready for things to costs more in the near future, because the CAD is now worth $0.69 USD and even lower to come.
I’m in a strata with no condo fees but it’s called a “non-conforming” strata instead of freehold. I’m not sure what the difference is. I far prefer the option to maintain things myself. It’s an issue when you want to replace something common and the neighbor is too cheap or broke to help, but it’s the same deal when replacing a fence and your neighbor is too cheap. The only thing that concerns me is that the insurance has to be fully paid for any one individual to be insured. If my neighbor doesn’t pay by the deadline then I’m not insured. I think in a normal strata situation, the strata corp covers insurance non-payment to some extent but I could be wrong there.
Patrick there are no monthly fees paid for the maintenance of the Freehold building or a reserve fund set aside for anticipated future repairs for a freehold rowhouse.
In that way it is better to buy a new(er) freehold rowhouse as there should be little to no issues in the immediate future as everything is near new. . But no so good if you are buying an older Freehold row house as it is less likely that there hasn’t been a consistent ongoing maintenance plan or money set aside in a fund to make repairs as needed.
This is something I see in older side by side duplexes that don’t have strata fees. One neighbor keeps their property meticulous and the other has let their property deteriorate. That becomes a source of disharmony between the owners as they feel that the neighbors property is bringing down their home’s value.
Freehold townhouses, Ottawa, built 1980’s (former City of Nepean)
Great article Leo. Thanks.
If a freehold townhouse doesn’t share a wall with adjacent dwellings, isn’t it a detached house, and not a townhouse at all?
Various pics of freehold townhouses (including the cover pic for Leo’s article) seem to include dwellings that don’t share a wall.
What is the distinction that makes something a freehold townhouse vs a detached house?
This is good example for prices strength in desirable neighborhoods. 4910 Alamida, a better house (albit smaller) on a better lot sold for 1.45 in the spring.
1,468,000
What’s wrong with pink townhouses?
Would someone mind sharing what 4898 Alamida Cres in Cordova Bay sold for?
Yes winding my way through oak bay and Fairfield is very enjoyable and always a pub close by
It’s not an enjoyable ride compared to biking downtown from Oak Bay.
Isn’t millennial grey the tyrannical colour these days? lol
Great article as usual
FWIW I am totally OK with my neighbour painting their house pink if that’s what they want to do. It’s a free country. And in any case Canadians need to escape the tyranny of taupe.
There’s loads of townhouses out in vancouver, Richmond Surrey etc. I don’t think strata is that big a deal .
Current Streetview image of freehold townhouse I owned in Ontario early 2000’s (early 90’s builds). 7 units, 7 different roof replacements.
Very interesting article. My question is always – what about the roof? But as you point out in Europe they are done when any owner decides to do them and that works fine.
Freehold ownership can definitely work for smaller developments. Something I will look into for sure!