Does Canada respect veterans? Our housing record casts doubt
It’s Remembrance Day, and across the country there will be ceremonies today honouring the sacrifices of members of the Canadian Armed Forces, both current and past. These ceremonies remind us of the profound debt we owe to those who risked everything to protect our freedoms.
But does Canada really support its veterans? On the housing file, two stories raise some doubt in my mind.
The first is local. There’s a project in Central Saanich by the Legion Manor at 1934 Hovey Rd. It’s essentially an expansion of the Legion retirement home, with one building of 126 market and subsidized workforce rentals supporting 62 affordable homes for veterans and seniors. It was submitted to council last year, and in navigating the approval and review process, it, like most housing projects, lost some homes and had its height trimmed. Three weeks ago it came before Central Saanich council for a routine vote to send it to public hearing. Affordable housing for seniors and veterans, minimal opposition, and nearly 200 units towards the municipality’s new provincial housing targets – everyone expected it to sail through. But it didn’t. In a surprising turn, Mayor Ryan Windsor, Councillor Robert Thompson, and Councillor Zeb King voted against the project, and with only three in favour (Councillor Sarah Riddell was on leave for her provincial run) the motion to forward it to public hearing failed.
The project was left with no clear path forward, with hundreds of thousands of dollars in planning time from the Legion, the developer, and the city up in smoke. Why was it voted down? I watched the council meeting and it’s honestly unclear. Some opposing councillors expressed concern that the project would require an OCP amendment, but this is common for new developments. Others mentioned frustration with provincial actions on zoning or the outcome of the election, but it was unclear what this had to do with the project. What struck me most was that none of the councillors strongly defended the value of the housing. The meeting felt so mundane one might have thought council was debating the colour of garbage bins rather than affordable homes for those in need.
Fortunately, after substantial community pressure, this project was reconsidered on November 4th. The council chambers were packed with supporters including veterans, and council decided to reconsider their vote (though not until November 28th). If that vote passes, the project would go to public hearing at the end of this year or early next.
Photo source: Chek News
Good news, and with all eyes on council for the 28th, I suspect they won’t dare to block the project again. However it raises some questions: why do we have a system that requires veterans to physically attend council meetings to remind governments that housing for veterans is a good thing? And when we elevate minor procedural concerns over affordable housing, what does that say about our values?
Which brings me to my next story, which is about the Canadian Forces Housing Agency (CFHA). They were established in 1995 with a mandate:
To manage Crown-controlled residential accommodation for DND, to ensure assets are maintained to a suitable standard and to develop and implement plans to meet the future residential needs of members of the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF).
After the Second World War, CAF members returned to a severe housing shortage. Rather than standing idly by while soldiers struggled in the local housing market, the government undertook a massive building project, constructing over 17,000 homes from 1949 to 1960.
Unfortunately after that golden age, the government lost interest in building housing. Over the next three decades, average housing production dropped by 94%. By the late 90s, the aging and poorly maintained housing stock had become barely habitable. The CFHA was created to manage this housing, and they immediately began a campaign of demolitions, cutting the housing stock in half from roughly 22,000 units in the mid 90s to around 12,000 two decades later. Since then, the number of units has continued to drift downwards, currently sitting at 11,669.
Reading these CFHA reports is astonishing. While the housing stock dwindles and waitlists expand, the agency touts success in reducing GHG emissions or improving privacy for neighbours by demolishing housing. As of the most recent report, only 15% of eligible CAF members live in military housing, and the waitlist for housing reached a record 1466 members (with actual numbers that could benefit from on-base housing likely much higher). Though they have made progress in repairing existing homes and built a few new ones, the agency has not managed to increase the availability of housing at all in the last 5 years. Despite this, their most recent report concludes that “CFHA delivered on its mandate during the past year, and maintained its level of excellence as an organization by focusing on continuous improvement”.
To be clear, I don’t really blame the CFHA for these failures. The blame lies primarily with the last 60 years of federal governments of all stripes who have not cared enough about providing housing for armed forces members to invest in building and maintaining it. With chronic underfunding, the housing stock was left to rot, and though there are some recent announcements to build more housing, it’s hard to call this record anything but a failure. It’s also why I have zero patience for every level of government talking about how they will identify unused government land for housing. The federal government has had ample land for military housing, and yet after nearly 30 years, the agency tasked to build it has managed to destroy half the housing it started with.
Meanwhile, a newly elected Trump will push other countries to meet the NATO requirement of 2% of GDP on defense spending. Canada will face intense pressure to increase military spending, and while much of that should go toward capability, how about we shake loose a few hundred million to build housing for every armed forces member that needs it? If we truly respect their service and sacrifice, that would be a clear way to show it.
Lest we forget.
“My clients didn’t buy Belmont, something else.”
Wow Marco, thats quite a coincidence that 2 homes sold on the same day in the Oaklands area at the same price and both at 25K over list price 🙂
I understand if its a privacy issue.
New post: https://househuntvictoria.ca/2024/11/19/whats-the-best-time-buy-or-sell/
I am Groot!
Too easy whatever/jack. People always recognize you after your first couple of posts
Patrick – do me next!
The biggest “tell”that Barrister and Hopeful are the same was spotted by Josh.
A picture is worth a thousand words… When accounts are made, the icon used by WordPress is called a gravatar since its generate by gravatr.com algorithm. . It is made from your email address. So if you make a second one from the same email, you get the same icon. Now look at the icons generated for Barrister and Hopeful. They sure look the same, implying they came from the same email. Then look at anyone else;s icon and you can see how different they are.
I’ve leave it there.
Crazy if true but there are signs for sure:
I’m waiting for the fictitious rib-eye steak anecdote to crop up. That’ll be proof beyond reasonable doubt!
Patrick, I suspect househunt has way more followers than it does posters. Also, if I had a vote on format, i would opt to keep it simple. I don’t want to track multiple threads.
My clients didn’t buy Belmont, something else.
Reddit has 97 million regular users, and HHV has about 20 (and that’s if you count Hopeful and Barrister as two). So maybe reddit and most other social sites (twitter, facebook etc) are onto something with threaded conversations?
I believe that’s called reddit.
Imagine being at a party where the conversation worked like HHV. Where there was only one thread of conversation that all would hear. It wouldn’t be surprising that some people found the current speaker boring or off topic. It could be Albert Einstein announcing special relativity, or Taylor Swift describing songwriting and for someone, the response would be “boring”. Or think about twitter if it was one single giant thread.
Leo, With that in mind, I know you’ve rejected this in the past to keep it simple. But have you considered switching to a multi-thread format like a forum? Things get lost when there’s more than one thread going on here.
For example, in the last 10 messages , Kristan is talking about an HHV get together, others started a “Belmont” thread, another a “Virrinder” thread, Deryk has the “parrot” joke l, Marko mentioned an Oakland house sale over ask etc. it’s hard to keep track.
I can live with either way. But I expect a newcomer might find it confusing.
For example, maybe with a threaded forum someone starts a “SFH under $1 million” thread, that lives on and only has posts about SFH under $1 million”. And not get cluttered about with all kinds of other topics like tax treatment of svr rentals/ sales etc. because there’s a separate thread for that
Marko did that home your client bought at 2756 Belmont have updated perimeter drains, roof, is it a full height basements?
I see the bidding war generated 25K over asking and assessed.
What did you think of the house?
but I think it should sell at around that price if there isn’t anything significantly wrong with that house.
Market decides in the end what it will sell for. My clients viewed the home a few months ago and ended up buying something else.
House today in the Oaklands area listed for $1,150,000 sold for $1,175,000 – so the market saw something in the Oaklands home to generate multiple offers while other properties sit. Often there is a good reason.
So the current owners bought it for $1.275 at the peak in Feb 2022, did a reno and has been trying to unloaded for the past 8 months starting at $1.3M and still have no takers at 1.1? Damn that sucks, but I think it should sell at around that price if there isn’t anything significantly wrong with that house.
That was good. Basically don’t do stupid shit in life. My Wife is a believer…I just ask her to pray for me. I even wear a small cross around my neck for precarious situations. I don’t think there is any harm in that.
They’re already referencing the rule change in the description. Right now they’re right in that dead spot above a million.
A burglar breaks into a house. He begins to search the home for valuables when he hears a quiet voice say
“Jesus is watching you” he dismisses it as paranoia and carries on with his crime. He hears the voice again “Jesus is watching you”. He’s knows this time it’s not in his head so he looks around the room and sees a parrot in the corner. He walks over to the parrot and it repeats one more time “Jesus is watching you”. The burglar says to the parrot. “Is your name Jesus?” “No it’s Moses” the parrot replied. The burglar laughs and says “Who names a parrot Moses?” and the parrot says “The same person who named the Rottweiler Jesus”
Virrender is probably getting hit on location , it’s in that neither here no there spot . Houses around there seem to sell for less as it’s not in the best part of oak bay or Fairfield or fernwood or.
So no real latent defects? Interesting, I think they should just relist after Dec 15 for the new CMHC rules to kick in. I suspect there will be some fomo FTHB that will bid this thing closer to $1.2M, what you think @Marko?
For us, it didn’t work as a family home and the way it was structured and layed out, it didn’t work for future expansion.
Is there something actually wrong with it? Seems well priced for the area given the house looks to have renovations and is on 8,000 sqft.
I checked it out in winter/spring after it was price dropping back then. In simple terms, it’s strange. It is like a government committee (that has never seen a house) tried to put a house together with 3 different houses from different decades and none of it works for living in.
Guys. This is a little petty. Surely there are better things to do!
I think I’m on the record saying that I’d be happy to join an in-the-flesh gathering. In person is hierarchically superior to being online.
Well at least he had the balls to show up in person.
I think Barristers explanation for spelling errors in the past is that he uses a speech to text function for composing messages due to age or infirmity. Not sure what is what overall and it really doesn’t matter I guess.
It’s a moo point
https://youtu.be/62necDwQb5E?si=ovPmNpEAdvFBjBIU
Retracted.
I began to wonder that too, especially when I saw him misstate basic legal terms like “moot point” as a “mute point” . https://househuntvictoria.ca/2021/05/17/how-to-fix-the-housing-crisis/#comment-79918
Whoa… Based on past comments I just thought he had been retired for a very long time and was out of date with electronic resources and case law. Never occurred to me that that someone would possibly misrepresent something like that and also meet people in person.
Interestingly, Barrister’s disgust at my original handle was the reason I changed it. It was originally “Sahtlam Strangler” because I like alliteration and the Scranton Strangler was a funny bit from The Office to me. So I changed it to this one as he’d suggested it and I put “seeker” in all capitals to be cheeky. I no longer live in Sahtlam and so the identity crisis continues.
‘Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
What’s Montague? It is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What’s in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call’d,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,
And for that name which is no part of thee
Take all myself
-Bill S.
>>> At the same time keep the comments based in reality, no matter your handle.
Looks like the Barrister/Hopeful duo fails the “comments based in reality” test.
Since Barrister is a retired senior with grandkids, and Hopeful describes himself as young, where “ Our main criteria is that we want to have a family in the next few years”.
I generally have no problem with people changing their names. It’s an anonymous forum, everyone is free to chose whatever handle they like and change it. I’m not going to call anyone out for that. At the same time keep the comments based in reality, no matter your handle.
Lol, I was wondering about the glyphicon that looked identical to Barrister’s. At least use a different email, jeez. Must have been inspired by that other guy.
Occam’s razor. When someone says they’re in a house large enough to have a carriage house worth renting out, the simplest explanation is that they’re lying.
But what if hopeful isnt barrister? Then we are just talking about him behind his back.
I’d be down for a meetup but only with a few of the posters here. Like Thursty and his sandwiches. Or some of the other women here. I guess I like my privacy too much.
I wonder, then, if the Rockland mansion is a fabrication too.
For those keeping score at home, two other ongoing charades: “JustJack” as “whateveriwanttocallmyself” and “ks112” as “VicREanalyst.”
Lawyers for the most part are very ordinary. In any conversation I wouldn’t tell the difference. Not sure what expectations others might expect . If hopeful is barrister then that’s just weird on alot of levels
I am revising my prediction to 530 sales for the month.
That was definitively interesting 🙂
I work from home and my wife is thinking of working in Sidney. There seems to be everything we need on a day to day basis in Sidney, lots of grocery stores and a big Canadian tire. We both like the feel of the community. I dont think we are going to have a lot of money to be doing much for the next few years, like the next thirty, but I am excited at this point.
@hopeful just remember that is not Victoria. I have a friend who moved to Brentwood and she complains when she has to come to Victoria. As long as you’re ok being out of town go for it. Also remember if you have to travel up island you’ll probably want to take the ferry across to Mill Bay (rather than drive down to McKenzie then back up the #1).
Month to date activity
Sales: 287 (+47% over same time last year)
New lists: 512 (unchanged)
Inventory: 3013 (+10%)
Years ago we had a househunt meetup and I met Barrister there. When we got home I said to my wife “I don’t believe he was a lawyer”.
7 years later I stand by that assessment.
There he is! I thought he died of old age or out front of chip Wilsons house of a heart attack due to the Con loss.
Going to take a second look at Dean Park today. Any reason to avoid the area. It is more than I want to spend but I think that prices are only going to go higher. The house is not perfect but it is a lot better than I was originally thinking (and more expensive). But it also means we would never have to move again in the long run.
>>> Hopeful: On a separate, but maybe related topic (hope that is okay), I just had *** coffee with my neighbor*** and he was telling me about his house insurance and he said it went up over 15% this year and last year was even worse. And he said he checked everywhere for the lowest rate. The amount made me gulp. I just checked and we are down to a *** 71 cent dollar *** and I just had the *** lawyer (who has been great) *** go over BCs land transfer tax and it is nothing like Alberta. (that is the tax that the RE agent called just a very small charge to register the property) How the hell does anyone afford to live here? Sorry, I am just feeling a bit overwhelmed.
—-==—=—==-=—-==—=—
Pathetic
Barrister is now posting as a made up persona of “Hopeful”..
I noticed “Hopeful” making a comment that less people are turning 65 this year than prior years. An innocent comment, but the only other HHVer saying that was Barrister. Curious, but maybe a coincidence, So I’ve been waiting for “Hopeful” to inevitably revert to the other “barrister-style” comments about “coffee with the neighbours”, strength of USD, bashing downtown and general Victoria bashing. And of course the importance of having a lawyer.
And there you have it (see above comment) – all of Barrister’s greatest hits in one “Hopeful” post. In short, Hopeful = Barrister pretending to be someone else, and just making stuff up with every “Hopeful” post. And of course “Hopeful” appeared on HHV as soon as “Barrister” disappeared after posting a nasty comment about Leo a few weeks back.
Barrister/Hopeful, it’s time to man-up, apologize to Leo , stop the “Hopeful” nonsense and revert to posting as Barrister.
Welcome back
The lawyer was saying that he thought that Victoria would be seeing a lot of development over the next ten years and he sounded very optimistic about that but it might not be best if one was looking for a stable single family home neighborhood. He did say to look at Gordon head and not to leave out Sidney since I work from home. I am just not sure what is really in our budget. There was a rather nice house in Dean Park up by the airport and I got to admit that I was taken by the view.
I’ve lived in a few places different sizes (very very small to very large cities). The island culture is mostly about nature. If you’re into some outdoor sports people might love it here for that reason. But Victoria is definitely not the place to move to if you want a vibrant art, festival or city scene. I love it here but I love it for what it is.
Lawyers are great for barber and neighbourhood recommendations, but if I’m looking for a good restaurant, I always trust my gynecologist.
I always ask my lawyer for a good barber, even though he’s bald.
Didn’t know you needed a lawyer to get an opinion on a neighbourhood? Sounds like something Barrister would write.
Well it is early days and it takes time to get the feel of a city, we are definately leaning away from buying in the city of Victoria proper, the lawyer set out some proper strong reasoning why it would be a questionable choice. We walked through parts of downtown and by the time we got to around where the Hudson Bay mall is my wife was really not liking it. The big hotel and the government buildings looked great and we walked a number times in a number of areas downtown and truthfully the city just does not look appealing. I will be the first to admit that it nice to get away from winter but cold rain and grey skies are a marginal improvement. We will see how this weeks goes but my wife is having mixed feelings.
Hey it only took 45 years but now we have rockets more powerful than what NASA had in the 60’s and 70’s (Saturn)
@hopeful you might find it very boring here then…
Montreal most recently.
Like I don’t know why people are so into space when we have the arctic which is melting and under explored. Who knows what’s under all that ice. Probably some good stuff.
Went for dinner with a work colleague and his spouse and my spouse last night. They drove into downtown and had a hell of a time finding parking. We took the bus and were there in 10 minutes. I <3 Esquimalt
“ We should defiantly ask Superman first. Alternatively we could continue to look further into the use of a space elevator”
Do your copy of Popular Science just arrive in the mail? Any articles on flying cars?
Maybe they have those electric ladders and they send it via a window from the outside. In Belgium they have these really cool hooks in some places for lifting up to higher floors.
1039 Verrinder – How do you get a bed up a spiral staircase?
@hopeful I know someone who bought something smaller than what they could afford and regretted it after. If you can manage sf my would would be to do it.
As for the art gallery – it’s Victoria. People here are really into nature – art less so. The VAG is just a short ferry ride away using the commuter.
If you’re into more suburban but still not waaaay out there maybe check out Royal Oak. I think lots of people like it out there.
I’m pretty urban and love Esquimalt —- but I totally understand it’s not for everyone.
Hopeful- Where are you from?
who’s been to 1039 Verrinder Ave and whats wrong with it?
Hopeful , 5 months will put u in the middle of the spring market , which won’t be fun imo
Had a pleasant day. Craigderrick Castle was really interesting. My wife found the art gallery a real disappointment. We have another five months in the rental we are in and have time to get a better handle on Victoria. Our main criteria is that we want to have a family in the next few years. Originally we thought of getting a condo at first and a house down the line. We spent time looking at condos but honestly downtown is just not that appealing to us after spending a bit of time looking around. Our parent mafia is really pushing for a SFH and both sets are coming out for Christmas.
We should defiantly ask Superman first. Alternatively we could continue to look further into the use of a space elevator(s).
https://news.northeastern.edu/2024/02/01/are-space-elevators-possible/
Let me ask you this Frank. Five years ago would you have ever thought of watching SpaceX’s enormous 20-story-tall Super Heavy rocket booster plummeting through the sky before being caught back at its launch pad by giant mechanical arms to be used over and over and over again?
With the use of advanced AI and robotics, the entire solar system and beyond is at our finger tips.
We can’t get two astronauts of the space station, how are we going to get heavy metals off an asteroid. We could ask Superman.
Its not all gold. How about all the cobalt and lithium to electrify all this renewable infinite resource utopia you speak of. Gold also has other uses rather than just a store of wealth. Scientific and electronics for example.
https://earth.org/lithium-and-cobalt-mining/
That much gold would saturate the market and the price of gold would go down to $1 an ounce.
This NASA satellite is exploring a goldmine worth $10,000 quadrillion in space.
The Asteroid 16 Psyche Has an Estimated Value Up to $10,000 quadrillion. We’ve known that Psyche has existed for centuries, but only recently realized how valuable it might be, both in economic and scientific terms. Apr 25, 2024
https://science.nasa.gov/solar-system/asteroids/16-psyche/
Now punt NASA, let Elon do his thing and explore the solar system. Its necessary.
Thinking of leaving Canada?
https://youtube.com/shorts/bzjHUzBTQEA?si=NsPDLHY4NcbqR_C0
The resources we need for life are renewable: rain, sunlight, oxygen, food, all of which does not exist on dead planets and moons. Think about it.
If you’re looking for a feel of the city i would also suggest a stroll down government street, a drive and walk around the top of Mount Doug, and ogden point.
Our resources are finite. Space exploration is vital to our survival. Elon Musk is the best man for that position and He doesn’t need the funding…Just the clearance and reduction of red tape. He will capitalize without the need of any government funding. If the Yellowstone volcano pops it lid it would be an extinction level event.
Let the Chinese and other nations waste money on going to the moon, it’s a waste of resources and time. We should focus on the problems we have under our nose.
Here is what was actually said. Pay attention:
Q Mr. President, Trump said today, “China is eating our lunch.” What do you say in response? He said, “China is eating our lunch.” That’s what Trump said today.
THE PRESIDENT: He’s being feeding them a long time. (Laughter and applause.)
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/05/14/remarks-by-president-biden-remarks-by-president-biden-on-his-actions-to-protect-american-workers-and-businesses-from-chinas-unfair-trade-practices/
On the bright side…
Fondly known as the “Island of Caves,” the Island is peppered with over 1,000 caves, which include some of Canada’s most extensive and deepest networks. This rich karst terrain is not only a geological treasure but also a sanctuary for rare wildlife. The longest cave on Vancouver Island is Thanksgiving cave with a mapped length of 7.6 km (4.7 miles). Several other island caves exceed 2 km (1.2 miles) in length.
https://www.beachacresresort.com/blog/caves-vancouver-island.html
Deryk , I don’t c much of a threat from China . Canada has made an effort to become more of a service based economy and not so much in manufacturing. This switch goes back into the 80s with the world moving towards free trade. It’s really only the U.S that is wanting to bring home all they’re manufacturing, which will be a failure imo
Frank…..Thanks for pointing out to me that there are reports that “millions of Chinese people are living in caves” .
I’ll promise to keep your point in mind as I watch China return to the moon on their next mission.
I love your comment though because it does illustrate my point…….. Westerners are missing an important disrupter heading our way and how that will effect economies like America, Canada, as well as the broader western world.
Even Biden, in his declining mental state, has recognized and stated that “China is eating our lunch”.
I continue to advise my children to be cautious and not to stick their necks out until everyone has a better picture and understanding of what all this means.
I firmly believe that the changes are going to result in a lot of hard economic pain as we go through adjustments…Wars, and learn how we can fit into the new multi polar world order.
My oldest Son is already talking about getting snipped and he isn’t even 20 yet. My Wife isn’t too happy about that, but it is his life.
Peter, I cant draw a straight line much less cut one. Besides I like the feeling of a moment to myself which is relaxing. Each to his own. Off to see Craigderrick Castle today and then maybe the Art Gallery. Trying to get a feel for the city.
Not new to some of you, but this documentary about housing in hong kong is interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLrFyjGZ9NU
China has hundreds of millions of people living in abject poverty. Saw somewhere on line that millions actually live in caves. Rural China is massive and completely impoverished. Don’t let the pictures of the big modern cities fool you, that’s only the tip of the iceberg. Same goes for India, Africa and other overpopulated countries. Developed countries in Europe and North America are finally realizing that we can’t lift everyone out of poverty.
The westshore traffic is really sucking lately with all the construction! We tried going through Langford to the highway and it literally took 40 mins to get from Langford to Langford at 7.45am. What is usually a 30 min commute in the morning from Royal Bay is now 60 mins due to construction on island highway. But then it took us 25 mins to get from downtown to Carnarvon Park recently in brutal stop start traffic and I’m not sure which was more annoying.
I get the appeal, but personally, not going back after learning to cut my own hair during the pandemic. Get yourself a Wahl set on Amazon for $40 or so and do it yourself, doesn’t take that long to learn how to get it just right, I think at this point I do a better job than what I was getting at the barber!
I’m happy to pay to outsource lots of things, but this is just easier to do at home, for me.
You may be right, but I don’t think this is crystal-clear at all. This turbo-charging of their population is something they’ve been trying very hard to do but it hasn’t succeeded to date, and their economy is sagging (relative to the past) under demographics.
Hard to say that any of that is relevant to Victoria RE – probably not. But to the extent their economic model is struggling, and they have less heft to throw around, I think probably the better.
Thanks Whatever, I will give the barber a try this weekend.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/real-estate-commissions-cashback-rebates-1.7375040
Buyers getting in on negotiations for the real estate agents fees! And why not!
The barber I like is Uomo at 240 Cook Street. Steve was properly trained in Italy as a barber and puts on events for his regular customers such as a Scotch tasting and for those that still enjoy a good smoke as he has cigars at Christmas. He also carries a nice selection of high quality shaving creams and razors. If you’re looking for a more traditional barber shop that’s the one I would suggest.
My Dad owned that great big house on the corner of Beach Drive and the parking lot to willows beach. This would have been back in 1992/93. As a teenager (after work and on weekends) I built the basement suit in that house in exchange for a years free rent. My girlfriend and I lived in the suit until the free rent expired, then bolted back to Langford.
Some people like the core, some people like the Westshore. simple as that.
As nice as that suit was, right in the willows beach parking lot (open the gate and we were in the Oak Bay Tea Party) and the rent would have been reasonable. We didn’t like the area. All of our friends and the bulk of our family were in Langford where we both grew up.
I have honestly never used a Barber. My Father in law went to a traditional Barber near the Navy base and was absolutely repulsed by the material he saw. He got up and left. My girl has always cut my hair.
Well Max, they probably had some classic Swank, Cheri and Club in there for you.
Playboys would have been tame for a traditional barber.
There was Len Fraser’s on Esquimalt Rd. I think Doug retired and passed it on. I haven’t been there since it changed hands, but I imagine it’s still a traditional Barber (probably got rid of the Playboys in the waiting area). It likely hasn’t been changed into a Victoria faux barber staffed by hipsters, but no guarantees.
Seems to me that lots of people dont work downtown but I am guessing a lot of government workers do. But everybody here seems to talk like everybody has to go downtown.
It takes 30+ minuets to get from Sooke to Langford. And if you have a half a brain you don’t go anywhere near Colwood to get to highway 1. I don’t hit any traffic congestion until I hit uptown. If for some reason highway 1 is shut down or extremely slow moving I’ll take Ross Durrance Road (Durrance Lake) to west Saanich Road or Munn Road to Prospect Lake Road to west Saanich Road. Then hit the Pat Bay into town (obviously you can reverse those steps to get from town back to Langford). People just don’t know how to drive…That’s the problem.
So rhe Colwood crawl is fiction? But I’ve been in it! My partner’s coworker moved to Sooke and complained the entire year about the commute until finally he moved back to the core.
Many of us can’t stand anything that’s 30+ minutes. Some workplaces have required hours. Commute time is important in these cases.
It take me 12 minutes to get from Florence Lake to Victoria Shipyards, and roughly 22 minutes to get home during afternoon rush hour traffics. My ex coworker live on Allenby St. by Carnarvon Park consistently takes twice as much time to and fro Victoria Shipyards than I’m. And, for several decades in the past I lived near the Royal Jubilee Hospital.
However, the average Victorian seems to have a difficult time entertaining the idea of living out in the West Shore dog patch, and will come up with all kind of theories to stay in the homeless and drugs infested core.
Off topic, but can you recommend a good traditional barber shop?
Sure, for us there is. Its the future generations that are in question here. The machine depends on consumption even if it pulls that projected consumption forward. If the consumer can’t consume it all falls apart. So how are we expected to play our role to consume with skyrocketing inflation, super high taxes, a severely bloated government (on all three levels) and unrealistic climate action plans?
I don’t care how green you think you are. You are a consumer otherwise you wouldn’t be posting on this web log.
I hit highway 1 from the Leigh road on ramp weekdays at 6:30am. I’m at Mayfair shopping centre within 10 minuets. I spend 6 hours in town doing business then head back north on highway 1 at around 1:00pm. Again 10 minuets back to Leigh road. That’s 20 minuets return.
I’m guessing you shop Costco on Saturdays too.
I think the worst aspect of owning a condo are the monthly fees on top of property tax and the probability of a special assessment. You couldn’t give me one. Not to mention the control freaks on the condo board.
Marko, and that commute and traffic is only going to get worse and worse.
Max, there’s good money to be made in Canada more than ever. Inept over regulated rubbish is profitable.
+1, we’ve discussed this at length recently. People complain about the size of condos and then when I list a three bedroom condo that would work for a family it is crickets on the listing.
The fundamental cultural problem, imo, is for a three bedroom condo in town you can get a three bedroom townhome somewhere on the Westshore and the vast majority of people will go for the townhome (to get closer to that “SFH feel”) and commute 30-40 min each way versus living in a condo.
The west is just fine.
Good points by Max on how China is facing changes as well.
Manufacturing has it’s challenges for sure. But I’m not writing China off just yet. They have the ability to pivot much better than the rest of us. The article does point out that they are building on AI and robotics etc. They have landed a rover on a difficult part of the moon where no one else has been able to do so yet and brought back samples. Their Belt Road is on track to change the way goods are moved and traded. (A New deep sea port in south America has just been opened ….with duel use possibilities for large military ships and trade …cutting off several days for shipping routes and changing the way shipping is handled all over the map apparently..)
China is no slouch. It is not Japan either. China has some of the best developed deposits of rare earths for example.
They think long term. Huge advantage to western leaders. They can turbo charge their population in less than twenty years if they want to add younger population. In the grand scheme of things, this is not something that they can’t improve.
No question in my mind that China will overcome better than the west and be the world leader.
I mention this in a house discussion group, because I think it is important for each of us to keep in mind that this gravy train, western mind set, will likely not last forever and to consider what that will mean for all of us….long term. (For our children).
Of course not, because the money coming out of the RRSP was not taxable.
I myself used the HBP when I bought my current house to avoid having to sell investments that would have resulted in taxable capital gains.
“We have decided here to zone for and to construct almost exclusively tiny and higher expensive condos (per square foot).”
Marko has pointed out that, in Victoria at least, developers build small condos simply because it’s more profitable than building fewer larger condos with the same total floor space. They are quite free to build larger condos.
Which is exactly what I think we’ll be seeing a lot more of moving forward.
Just beware the RRSP homebuyers plan does have tax ramifications. I thought no big deal when I took $25,000 out of my RRSP to buy a house in 2015. My work RRSP benefits more than exceed the yearly repayment amounts, but the amount credited as a home buyer plan repayment, $1,666.67 each year is not sheltered from taxes so each year I pay tax on that amount as it is a return to my RRSP and not an original contribution. I’m at year 10 now so only 5 more years to go.
You can gift the $8K to your kid, they contribute it to their FHSA and they get the tax credit. If they’re in a low tax bracket they may be better off not claiming the contribution until a later year, which can be carried forward for multiple years.
(added, and yes the kid has to be 18+)
So with the FHSA, is it right that I have to wait for my kids to turn 18 before I can open one for them? And, say once they are 18, can someone contribute to their amount and get tax deductions?
That is correct Patriots. 1 year carry forward plus current year: 8,000+8,000 = $16,000 room for the current year. This is why it’s important to open the account now and start your contributions by the next year to not “fall behind.”
Our kid opened an account last year (or before) and I’m encouraging them to contribute $8000 each this year. They’ll be able to contribute $16k each in the year of purchase.
They’re both still in school, currently lower income, so will carry the contributions to a year when their making $$ / higher tax bracket.
And thanks re: the tax lines. I’ll run it through last year’s tax return and see what it does.
@Dee: I would partly agree with Frank on this one. Condos in Canada are rarely homes.
You can go to Europe and actually buy large, livable condos that are nothing like what we build here anymore.
In Canada the vast majority of condos are one or two bedrooms. We have decided here to zone for and to construct almost exclusively tiny and higher expensive condos (per square foot).
For a retiree or a lifelong DINK couple living in a 600-900 sqft unit might offer a good balance of downtown living and adequate personal space.
But most families are made up of more than 2 people.
Well… they used to be. Not for much longer since we stopped building homes for families and crashed the birth rate nationally.
You can game FHSA, don’t need to take it out when buying a house and can keep contributing after buying a house up to the max. Good for people with lot of cash on hand for down payments and maxes out rrsps every year.
FHSA deduction is at line 20805 on the 2023 T1 return, right below 20800 for RRSP and has the same effect on net income before adjustments at line 23400.
CRA:
Seonho opened an FHSA in October 2023. He did not contribute to his FHSA or transfer from his RRSPs to his FHSA until 2030.
Even though Seonho did not use any of his FHSA participation room from 2023 to 2029, his unused FHSA participation room for 2030 is only $8,000. This is because the maximum amount of unused FHSA participation room that can be carried forward to a subsequent year is $8,000.
.
Pretty clear that you can have only $8K carried forward from any number of previous years. This is unlike RRSP or TFSA where unused contribution room accumulates without limit.
You have to open an account but don’t have to make the contribution. Carried forward. The key is opening the account.
You have to open in the year and make a contribution. If you don’t, you can’t go back and open one for the previous year. Then the contribution limit is lost. The unused amount can carry over to the next year, if a contribution was started and didn’t reach the maximum. Unless my bank got the rules totally wrong.
This discussion has already made me rethink the importance of the FHSA program as compared to the RRSP allowable withdrawals. The FHSA is a “one and done.” Use it or don’t, by the time you buy your first home the FHSA program is gone for ever. Don’t use your RRSP room, it will still be there.
Can’t seem to “copy paste” it. This tells me current plus 1:
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/topics/first-home-savings-account/contributing-your-fhsa.html
I’m not sure Umm, I think the previous year is still available. but it’s only current +1. I’ll look it up.
90 days
If you don’t contribute to the FHSA in the year, that contribution amount doesn’t carry over. To get 8k or 2023, you would have needed to contributed in 2023. So, if you didn’t put it I during 2023, you are out of luck for that years contribution limit. You have until 31 December 2024, to get the 2024 amount. If you don’t have the money in before the end of 2024. You don’t get 2024 amount.
Umm, “if the money doesn’t go in the year, the contribution limit doesn’t carry over”. My understanding is the contribution carries over for 1 year. Meaning that you may be able to use 2023 and 2024 this year, but if you don’t contribute next year you will only be able to use 2024-2025, 2023 is gone.
Rinse and repeat, every year going forward that you do not contribute, a year falls off. I think this is what you meant by “don’t leave $$ on the table”?
Deduction off your taxable income, but unlike the RRSP the is no obligation to repay and you keep the tax deduction when used… Google can give the rest of the details..
Does the FHSA effect (affect?) fed credits: CTB, GST, carbon tax, others? As in: contribute, reduce net income, increase benefits, withdraw for home buying? RRSPs did this 20 years ago and we did very well with it.
So, we leveraged that and the RRSP to keep more of our cash on hand for renos afterwards. The 60k in RRSP was such a small percentage of it and the repayment happens kind of automatically with tax planning. As for the FHSA, we did the 16k contribution in November 2023 and the next 16k in January 2024 to get the 32k. So, there is still time to get the 2024 contribution (if the money doesn’t go in the year, the contribution limit doesn’t carry over). Not the parent or kid, so I guess if you are giving the FHSA money, the kid sets up the FHSA, they would get the tax deduction. It is important for folks to know that the RRSP money needs to be in there for 4 months for it to be used. Whereas the FHSA can be immediately accessed.
Umm really please elaborate. Did you do that plus the RESP? You’re the parent in this scenario?
Make sure to exploit the FHSA. It basically free tax deductions without the RRSP restrictions. As a couple we did 32k with it in the summer. Don’t leave tax money on the table if the second born is eligible.
Have the various government incentives, tax credits, first time home-buying programs etc been beaten to death on here? We used the RRSP homebuying plan to buy our first and I see the allowable withdrawal under the plan is now increased to $60,000. Our second born will be buying a home (including possibly a condo) likely in the next 18-24 months and I’ll hope to help them make the best of any programs they use.
None of it makes sense. There is paperwork involved. You don’t just verbally grant an extension or multiple extensions. I’ve have had property for sale and the buyer requested an extension and I said no. Shit or get off the pot. If I had of agreed to the extension my signature would have been required.
That really doesn’t seem to make sense. What are extensions for, the deposit? Why would a seller grant an extension? Why would sources of funds ever need to be identified? You either get the deposit or you don’t. Sources of funds has to do with buyers financing requirements and government disclosures and not really the business of the seller. If they don’t have a deposit, why accept an offer?
I turned 51 years old yesterday. What kind of entitlement payments should I be expecting to receive? People seem to want something for nothing. There is no way to make detached houses affordable ever again. Even if you move to castlegar BC. Thinking people are going to default with the interest rate reset is nothing more than a wish or a hope. They will move heaven and earth to meet their mortgage obligations.
Want an older detached house you’ll be paying what they are asking if you want the house. Buy a brand new detached house in West hills, Kettle Creek, or Sooke You’ll be paying for what they are asking.
The Government is not going to buy you a detached house.
About the same % of people live in detached houses in Canada (52%) than much of Europe. So you don’t need to “go to Europe” to see this. And if you do “go to Europe” you may see more or less people living in detached houses, depending on what country you visit, and what part.
Cheaper than going to Europe, would be going to city of Vancouver, where only 20% of households live in SFH. And do they have a different mindset and love condos over SFH like we are told the Europeans do. No!
Who is the buyers agent? How do you write an offer and request multiple extensions without an agent? where is your source to this Intel?
There seems to be an increase in members of the public who may appear to be legitimate buyers writing offers, not providing a deposit (sometimes after requesting multiple extensions), refusing to identify sources of funds and then abandoning transactions. I don’t know how extensive this is happening but it is all over the island
Their behavior is deceitful because they are making offers with no intent to complete.
There is less security living in someone else’s home. Not only the chance of the home owner selling but that the home owners intrusion on your living space and life choices.
When you rent a part of your home, you are granting the renter a leasehold interest in your property.
The new PBRs tend to offer incentives to prospective renters such as the 13th month free and/or gift cards. The 13th month free is a bit of a gimmick as the 13th month isn’t free, the monthly rent has been increased to compensate for the “free” month. At renewal time the increase in rent will likely be based on the higher monthly rent actually paid.
Rents are negotiable and I suspect that the new PBRs will have a long lease up period to reach 90 to 95% occupancy which will be about the same time as the renewals kick in. So it is likely that any decrease in the monthly rental rate for new PBRs may not happen for at least a year.
The “free” month is a double edged sword as first time renters of the PBRs would have that month to look for less expensive housing.
If I were a tenant I’d much rather live in a brand new purpose built rental. It takes an in person interview, credit sweep, and a pretty solid resume with pay stubs, references and a personable attitude to even be considered by the property manager. With everyone in the building having to meet these requirements, I feel it would be a much more comfortable experience and a better fit…Everyone’s on the same page, much the same as living in a condominium without the strata fees, property tax and the flexibility to move whenever you decide to do so.
These new purpose built rentals are built for the long haul. They offer long term tenancy security with good management and clean amenities inside and out. They are purposely built near transit and shopping hubs, parks and recreation.
Personally I would never feel comfortable living in someone’s basement suit no matter how nice they are. Who knows if they are going to die, get divorced or just want to sell the house and move to timbuktu.
Plus some people would rather live in a suite in a house than a unit in an apartment block. But yes I would expect some downward pressure on rents as these new units hit the market. That is a good thing.
Those with basement suites are likely to face stronger competition in the market, not from newer purpose built suites but from owners of older apartment buildings that have upgraded the suites as they become vacant.
Anecdotally, I know of some home owners that have kept their basement suites vacant since the start of Covid but are now considering renting them as the cost of ownership has been increasing. But to be competitive the basement suites will need to be cosmetically upgraded. Incidentally most think that they will be renting to travelling health care workers or film companies as this is the happy medium of high rents and a suite that isn’t occupied year round.
But I wouldn’t go so far to say that they will be suffering. Most of these homes are paid off or nearly paid off. The rent would be offsetting the increase in home ownership and for that three week European holiday.
Damn straight there is, and I’m sure the ones pimping out their dingy basement suites to subsidize their mortgage payments are going to be the ones to suffer the most. Perhaps they should be the ones taking in the unhoused.
This time around there are choices for people.
Before the choice was to rent in an older apartment which gave long term security of tenancy or rent a newish condo but without the security if the owner wanted to sell. Now there is an option to rent an apartment in a new building with all of the amenities of a condo with the security of long term tenancy.
Renting in a new apartment will be expensive but less than if you were to buy a similar condo with high ratio financing. That will allow the tenant to use the money saved, that would have been used as the down payment, to grow their money through financial investments. That could possibly allow the tenant to skip buying a condo as their first home in order to build real estate equity for an eventual house purchase.
Frank – you should try it. Go to Europe and rent a condo. Many people all over the world rent and live happy lives. Apartments have other benefits like additional freedom.
Apartments are not houses. Apartments might help solve the homeless crisis, but I doubt it. The crisis is affordability, there will still be people that cannot afford the new apartments. I think of apartments as warehousing, not housing. A life of renting is pure drudgery and uncertainty. You can tell I’ve never lived in an apartment.
What housing crisis? There are rental units going up all over the greater Victoria area. There is no housing crisis. Soon there will be a glut of rental units. Then what? A landlord crisis?
Government policy created the housing crisis, J.T. admitted it on television. That’s why you’re almost priced out of the market.
Politics reflects economy reflects housing reflects on just how far down the rabbit hole you want to go.
Hopeful, true that , nothing like going down the rabbit hole
Why is there all this politics on a site that I thought was about housing?
Everyone’s going down this time…Even China.
The Rise and Coming Fall of Chinese Manufacturing:
“Aug 28, 2024
Yi Fuxian
China has built its manufacturing sector largely on the strength of an abundant workforce and high US demand. Now, reduced access to the US market, combined with trends like population aging and a shift toward services, has made the decline of Chinese manufacturing imminent.”
https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/despite-fears-about-overcapacity-china-manufacturing-decline-is-inevitable-by-yi-fuxian-2024-08
Warren Buffett’s record US$325 billion cash pile is starting to make people nervous.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2024/11/04/why-buffetts-berkshire-sold-apple-stockholds-352-billion-in-cash/
I am unaware of any place in Canada where municipalities run the public schools. School boards are conterminous with municipalities in some places, but legally they are distinct entities.
Deryk , for most Americans they feel they shall rise from the toilet bowl and be great again
Asking for a friend , the handsome fella has a commercial property that nets before tax’s 170 k , is there a valuation other than just adding what the land and building is worth ,
Is that true everywhere in Canada?
America is going down the toilet.
Canada has tied it’s lifeline to America’s rudder.
Schools? What are you talking about? School taxes don’t go to the municipality in the first place. They just collect them.
It’s not easy to compare.
Saanich charges extra for water, sewer, garbage, garden waste, recycling, schools, etc. that other municipalities may include in property taxes.
TOTAL civilian payroll of US government is only about 3-4% of spending. Significant cuts in spending have to come from the military, domestic programs (e.g. Medicare/Medicaid, which goes disproportionately to to GOP voters), or contractors (hi Elon).
Who’s gong to take the hit? Well Orange thinks his supporters are stupid anyway.
Trump won’t able to deliver more than 5-10% of what he promised. There are too many special interests wherever he tries to cut/change. First two years will be spent on the following priorities:
This is his second term, and he doesn’t care about his promises. At the end of his term, the Republican Party will be left holding his garbage bags.
” And it’s not just colleges/post-secondary. I don’t want to name names but look at various government offices/service providers who have added management roles or more senior roles to avoid losing talent. And then the budget balloons accordingly. Like I said, won’t name names but yes it’s a problem in large public institutions.”
What political leaders won’t do, AGI will.
“Musk won’t trim, he’ll permanently close some departments. That’s the plan.”
His capacity is an advisor, but maybe Poilievre can coax him up here once he’s finished in the US?
My prediction is that Musk and Trump will break up within the year. And just to reiterate, the DOGE can only provide advice and make recommendations. Whether Trump and the GOP follow through is another story. They might be too busy infighting over ridiculous nominations.
Musk won’t trim, he’ll permanently close some departments. That’s the plan.
“Talk to anyone who has been in academia for a long time and ask them about the bloating of administration and administrator’s salaries.”
+1. And it’s not just colleges/post-secondary. I don’t want to name names but look at various government offices/service providers who have added management roles or more senior roles to avoid losing talent. And then the budget balloons accordingly. Like I said, won’t name names but yes it’s a problem in large public institutions.
Somehow I doubt that Musk’s solutions will be to trim the management layer off the top… We will see what DOGE does in the US and how that influences things here I suppose.
Talk to anyone who has been in academia for a long time and ask them about the bloating of administration and administrator’s salaries. or look at how fancy new buildings on campus are compared to the some of the older stock.
Further, those property tax figures for BC municipalities are before the home owner’s grant.
The city of Winnipeg is full of corruption. Most of our first responders are kept busy 24/7 reviving overdosed drug addicts. They also clog the hospital ERs. Such a waste.
As for the snow removal budget, the city actually doesn’t get that much snow annually. We dodged a bullet last weekend when we got 30mm of rain instead of 30cm of snow. It’s the road repairs that are a killer due to the freezing weather, some potholes on the streets can take your axle off.
>>> In absolute dollars, the property taxes paid by Vancouver & Victoria homeowners are likely to be the highest in the country. Do we get more services from the municipality, school district, etc. just because we live in an expensive region?
It looks like Vancouver and Victoria homeowners aren’t paying anywhere near the highest property taxes in absolute dollars. That looks to be Winnipeg.
Finance officials at Winnipeg City Hall are hoping mother nature is kind this winter, as the snow budget is already being pushed over its limit.
The public works department is requesting a $13.1 million over expenditure for costs up to June 30 this year.
The main culprit is a $9.8 million dollar overrun for snow and ice clearing . There is also $2.6 million earmarked for city beautification, and $1.4 million for pothole patching, which is offset by $819,000 in savings.
Public Works Committee Chair Janice Lukes said this is the price for living in a winter city.
“We’re going to have to figure this out because we need to move in the city. We can’t be sitting in snow banks,” she said.
“We need snow removal. I’m hoping the weather stays great.”
She’s hoping the weather stays great because the department is also requesting an additional $9.9 million for snow clearing to the end of the year in case it is needed. The department said this is required to ensure contractors are paid in a timely manner.
> Another factor to keep in mind is how accurate the assessments are. Assessments in Ontario are outdated to such an extent that they only reflect about 1/2 the market value for many properties, including my own.
Good point.
Since Ottawa home prices are up 100% since last assessment (Jan 1 2016), adjusting for that the Ottawa property taxes drop from 1.2 to 0.6.
Still 40% higher than Victoria or Saanich (0.43%). I guess that’s due to higher Victoria prices.
“Do we get more services from the municipality, school district, etc. just because we live in an expensive region?”
No but they cost more because everything here costs more (wages, supplies)
In absolute dollars, the property taxes paid by Vancouver & Victoria homeowners are likely to be the highest in the country. Do we get more services from the municipality, school district, etc. just because we live in an expensive region?
Another factor to keep in mind is how accurate the assessments are. Assessments in Ontario are outdated to such an extent that they only reflect about 1/2 the market value for many properties, including my own.
No.
Retracted.
nil
Hey don’t insult losers. Canada beggars are the most educated losers in the world according to the OECD.
Perhaps there has to be a balance that put more emphasis on the economy than waste precious resources on counter productive liberal art programs.
You being very generous here. Precious resources still are allocate to valueless liberal art programs. IMHO, little to no practical employments and programs should have it funding tighten to reflect its market value.
.>. You disagree with subsidization of postsecondary institutions?
I’m in favor of subsidizing them based on the number of Canadian students they are teaching. And so if they have the same number of Canadian students as before, no I’m not in favour of subsidizing them more. They should be subsidized the same per Canadian student, and lay off the number of admins and teachers corresponding to the revenue loss in foreign student enrollment..
But if there’s a college that had huge numbers of foreign students, hired more teachers and costs went way up…. Now that the foreign students revenues are down, of course they need to cut back , and no way should government make up for their losses.
Nah, they voted for this. Feel bad for Canadians, we didn’t vote for it but we’re still gonna get it…
It bothers me that post secondary institutions have been raising their costs so much faster than inflation, while society increases their importance for the job market and they get 100’s of millions from the federal government to expand. Universities and colleges are for-profit corporations. That money should build public universities and colleges to set a floor on the cost of post-secondary. I recognize that’s a complex and risky en-devour that sounds good on paper but could be a fiasco, not unlike fast ferries. I think I’d still support it given that there’s nothing else we’re doing to break a trend which is bankrupting generations.
Dee- Congratulations, you described Canada perfectly, we’re basically a country full of losers looking for a handout.
Per the link there’s a limit on tuition increases of 2%. Government introduced this limit policy in 2005-2007. The limit does not apply to international student tuition. Inflation has exceeded 2%. Solution is obvious.
You disagree with subsidization of postsecondary institutions?
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/education-training/post-secondary-education/institution-resources-administration/tuition-limit-policy
I share this view. The number of international students was always a variable, but postsecondaries treated it like a constant.
I am sitting hère ordering a big bag of popcorn with an extra huge box of Kleenex in anticipation of what the US DOGE is going to do. It honestly feels like the precursor to something big like what happened in 1929-1930 US. I feel bad for the American people.
Sure. Let’s shut down all the colleges, cancel every philosophy course in the country, shut down the national art gallery (and every other gallery that relies on public funds). And all the workers can get jobs delivering pizza! Omg what a genius idea! Wow that sure would position Canada as desirable internationally!
It’s not about huge problem, just layoff the bogus instructors teaching bogus courses. They can go to work delivering pizza.
With the cuts to foreign students for colleges, the government are now in phase two of the three stages of inept government intervention, and are “regulating” the colleges by forcing less enrollment. Soon they will move to step 3, “subsidize it”, so expect a bailout and higher taxes to go to colleges.
(Three stages)…
1. If it moves, tax it.
2. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
3. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
It’s because of caps on increases to domestic student tuition that have been in place for decades without adequate public investment into the public institutions and rising costs. It’s a bit of a trap – do/don’t either one has it’s problems.
Patrick-Now you know one of the reasons I invested in B.C. property. Taxes in Winnipeg are horrendous, so are the renters.
As for cutting back on immigration, you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. I think the cut backs will stabilize the housing market, like I’ve been saying was needed for several years.
Oh, so you blame the universities/colleges instead of the obvious, to blame government for intentionally/abruptly cutting off the supply and changing the rules for foreign students without warning, damaging Canada’s international reputation. But yah, it’s the colleges that should be the ones planning for the rug to be pulled out at any time from an inept government.
Many similar measures to “help the housing crisis” have/will also result in layoffs .(Airbnb bans, spec tax, foreigner bans/taxes, falling population) Something that government and housing advocates don’t seem to realize ahead of time, and are surprised when it happens. Like this Camosun layoff which they find “incredible” and proceed to blame the victim.
That was the old system. The new system doesn’t have thresholds. Tesla is likely best positioned to ride out loss of subsidies though because their costs are lower so they can drop prices to compensate. Other manufacturers seem to have higher costs and less price flexibility.
https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/sharp-drop-in-international-students-triggers-layoffs-at-camosun-9805239
400 fewer international students at Camosun = $5M deficit
Incredible how our institutions are on such a razor’s edge that 400 fewer students means layoffs. Seems like we could be planning our universities and colleges better.
There’s quite a variation in property tax in different cities , if measured as a % of assessed value. This is because the costs to the cities for things like police, fire and administration are about the same, whereas the assessed values are much lower in some cities than others. And some cities include more of education costs in the property tax bill.
So for example, Victoria’s taxes are about 0.44% of assessed value, Saanich about the same (0.42%), (those are second lowest in Canada). Whereas Winnipeg is more than 5X higher at 2.64%.
Below is a list of estimated residential property tax rates for 20 major Canadian cities, expressed as a percentage of the assessed property value:
City Estimated Residential Property Tax Rate (%)
Vancouver, BC 0.28 <——- Vancouver lowest in Canada
Abbotsford, BC 0.45
Kelowna, BC 0.45
Saanich, BC 0.42 <———- Saanich is second lowest in Canada
Victoria, BC 0.44 <——— Victoria is third lowest in Canada
Calgary, AB 0.66
Edmonton, AB 0.94
Saskatoon, SK 1.29
Regina, SK 1.51
Winnipeg, MB 2.64 <——— ouch! ?Snowplow costs? And that is accurate : https://wowa.ca/taxes/winnipeg-property-tax
Toronto, ON 0.72
Ottawa, ON 1.20
Hamilton, ON 1.43
Kitchener, ON 1.21
Guelph, ON 1.23
Montreal, QC 0.59
Quebec City, QC 1.00
Halifax, NS 1.12
Saint John, NB 1.55
Charlottetown, PE 1.67
St. John’s, NL 0.91
Frank, you gotta get out here quick, before those Winnipeg property taxes eat you alive! 🙂
If you’re paying over $8K a year in property taxes, it seems to me your property would be assessed for around $2 million.
A house comparable to my own would probably be assessed for around $1 million in greater Victoria.
Going to look at another one tomorrow, fingers crossed.
Think of the available land/building lots back in the 80’s – 90’s. Yes, it is most certainly different this time. I remember doing “take back offers” on building lots. Meaning I would pay them back for the lot once I had occupancy. Its not like people were exactly lining up for these building lots at that time anyway (basically, cuff me the lot, I’ll build it out, I’ll pay you out once I have a saleable asset). They were just happy to see some action going on with all their available unsold building lots. My private lender would release the funds in the form of performance draws throughout the build until I had occupancy.
Banks are nothing more than pawnshops. They don’t like releasing funds until there is something turn-key for them to sell. This is where private lenders come in. In a nutshell, they aren’t building anymore land on the south Island. If you have your sights set on a detached house…Now’s the time.
We use square one but you still have to compare as they can be more expensive for specific types of properties. I like that they are entirely online.
Bobby k , I wouldn’t put too much stock in what happened in the 80s and 90s , it was a different time and a lot has changed . This time it’s different and it’s nothing but up come this spring
This Ronald Reagan quote could easily apply to our government’s approach to new home construction…
“ Government’s view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
Who are the best insurance companies for a house here in Victoria?
I think that was for early volume on lower price cars, and is diminished/cutoff once the threshold is reach. And, I think Tesla has long reached their threshold, hence Musk is trying to stifle competitions by getting the US gov to scrap the subsidies.
Weren’t 2020 and part of 2021 rise in deficit were partially due to COVID?
A month ago I was reaching out to developers on this board for a rough estimation of construction costs per square foot without a reply, for a replacement of a 2 levels lab on grade 3800sqf finished house in Victoria. The reason was West Coast Insurance was going to jack up my basic coverage insurance with no earth quake coverage by 122% due to rising construction costs and climate change.
I felt West Coast pricing was absolutely out of line, so I went with my brother inlaw suggestion for an online insurance company from the East Coast, Square One. And, boy o boy I’m glad that I made the move, because the exact policy with added earth quake coverage costs 6.4% less than what I was paying for the previous year, and is 136% less than what West Coast were going to charge without earth quake coverage.
Just curious, I pay about $330, $100, and $100 a month for these respectively. What’s the extra money going to?
Lol damn, only $330 a month in property tax? mine is like over 2x that….
Checked some numbers. U.S. federal employees-2.87 million, state and municipal-19.58 million. Would that include police, fire, and education? I assume health care workers would not in the U.S. but probably in Canada.
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Well I do put in extra. It’s $200 house insurance, $400 property tax, and some extra for miscellaneous. But yes generally there’s some left over and I move that to the random expenses account.
It isn’t just that, but also the more government you have the more difficult it is to get things done which drives up costs. For example, a year +/- for a BP + DP for a garden suite in Saanich in a so called housing crisis.
I’ve heard that government salary argument before, it’s B.S. Every position requires a place to work, at least prior to covid. Work from home does save office space, but I question how much work is actually getting done. No employee, no desk, no heat, etc…
Just curious, I pay about $330, $100, and $100 a month for these respectively. What’s the extra money going to?
Oh and I don’t get a homeowner’s grant.
As far as I’m concerned, a home sits on its own dirt, separate from other dwellings. I would take a mobile home over an apartment any day.
So I budget for an extra 1k a month in property taxes, insurance and water. That doesn’t include regular expenses like hydro and internet. Also doesn’t include repairs. Owning sf is very expensive. It was much cheaper when we had a townhouse that was part of a strata.
Salaries of civilian employees comprise only 3% of US government spending – $271 billion versus $6.75 trillion. So regardless of how efficient those employees are, there’s virtually no fat to trim in that area.
The rest of spending is for the military, debt servicing, various entitlement programs to individuals (e.g. Medicare), states and payments to private contractors. Like to Musk and Trump himself. That’s where the waste is.
When describing the housing crisis, I think we should be clear on terms that we are talking about unaffordable “homes” (ie SFH, townhouse or condo). I mention this because for some people it is a crisis if there aren’t affordable SFH. They don’t seem to care if condos are affordable or not in terms of labelling the whole thing a “crisis” because sfh prices are too high.
Typically I’ll make a statement about the affordability of “homes” and someone replies talking about SFH prices.
So what does affordable housing mean? Is it “homes” or SFH only?
Almost all new net home construction is multi-unit or townhouses – it not SFH.
Are SFH affordable to slightly above average incomes – no and they likely never will be.
Are “homes” including condos affordable in that group – yes. And that’s why I say **** homes *** are affordable.
Oh I forgot to add for a fair comparison you have to look at first time buyers only, like I was. Those who owned previously got plenty of help from a rising market.
The US has a $7500 federal tax credit for new EV cars, and that lasts until 2032. I think trump said he would kill it, but that was before he became friends with Elon. Should be interesting if the DOGE group puts an end to the EV subsidies.
@hopeful getting a house with a suite helps
Hopeful, don’t forget CMHC fees. And, in case you’ve been working hard to get to 20% down and not have to insure the mortgage, the bank will charge you another 1/4 or 1/2 % for the mortgage not being insured…around it goes.
I think getting Elon’s endorsement with the idea of addressing the deficit and increasing efficiency was pretty persuasive for a lot of voters. I’m concerned about Canada’s provincial and federal deficits. I’m also concerned about government funding things like this: https://www.saanichnews.com/national-news/report-details-cesspool-of-anti-black-racism-in-canadas-public-service-7643182
No doubt it is good to address discrimination head on and enforce policies – but these are already in place in the federal government. They have complaints mechanisms – very detailed ones. And we have the Canada Human Rights Commission. Hiring someone whose whole career has been in academic social justice specifically on “anti-blackness” to do interviews seems more expensive and less effective than evaluating the efficacy of current complaints and training and improving this.
The weird thing about reports like this is you can’t even raise the idea of bias of the investigator or weirdness of the methodology without seeming to be a racist yourself. My opinion only but no private business would spend money this way because it just doesn’t lead to concrete improvements.
On a separate, but maybe related topic (hope that is okay), I just had coffee with my neighbor and he was telling me about his house insurance and he said it went up over 15% this year and last year was even worse. And he said he checked everywhere for the lowest rate. The amount made me gulp.
I just checked and we are down to a 71 cent dollar and I just had the lawyer (who has been great) go over BCs land transfer tax and it is nothing like Alberta. (that is the tax that the RE agent called just a very small charge to register the property) How the hell does anyone afford to live here? Sorry, I am just feeling a bit overwhelmed.
The GOA will be the first swamp they drain.
The announcement was interesting as there is already a department of government efficiency – the Government Accountability Office (GAO). Rather ironic. But at least the man-child get to promote his favourite crypto.
Or Bitcoin- $92,000 U.S. today.
I don’t think Elon can actually do anything. His role is advisory, and I’m not sure that Trump really cares about cutting government waste. Honestly I wouldn’t be too surprised if Elon ends up getting sacked. The first term was pure chaos, and I have my doubts this one will be different.
Great news, housing has become much more affordable……. if you have U.S. dollars. Exchange rate around 40%.
“Generations have been saying the same shite forever . 2024 will look cheap in 10 years and younger folks will be bitching how good people had it back then . Same ol gripping”
Tell that to the people who bought a home in the early 80’s and had 0% real rate of return on their home over the next 20 years, along with extreme interest payments, I predict were at the start of this cycle again with prices and interest rates (if were lucky).
So much of government spending is social transfers and health care spending. And that isn’t “waste”. So let’s see how far Elon gets. One of my favourite ironic images is a MAGA supporter with a sign that says “keep your government hands off my Medicare!”
I won’t be shocked when the pudgy billionaire finds out that the NHTSA workers investigating Tesla Autopilot safety are totally superfluous and unnecessary.
The DOGE is going to be interesting to watch. There’s surely tons of waste in government, and it’s undoubtedly true that Elon has done well in driving his employees to do very efficient work with few resources so he can do it in the private sector.
But I have my doubts that he has the sustained interest to actually pull it off in government beyond cutting regulations for his own business interests. We’ll see.
As much as a complain about too much government it is probably 50% of my business (at least one buyer on a transaction working for some level of government) so maybe I shouldn’t be complaining.
However, at some point I would think the system simply can’t support itself. As I’ve said if 10 people are creating housing policy and one person is on a construction site swinging a hammer it isn’t a good receipt, imo.
“Trump wants to trim over 50% of the government, that should help lower prices, but create a lot of hardship for those paper pushers.”
That’s the confusing part. I mean, who is going to buy the stuff if no one has jobs?
Real estate is ridiculously high across the country. Van, TO, and Victoria are incredibly expensive yet people are still drawn to these cities. No matter where you are, the cost to build has gone through the roof. Add to that the high cost of land, which is the only variable between different parts of the country, and it’s basically out of reach for an ever growing segment of the population. Trump wants to trim over 50% of the government, that should help lower prices, but create a lot of hardship for those paper pushers.
Tomorrow will be the day that give us a hint to what is coming. If the US CPI report shows a drop, then it will be likely another rates drop in December, thus the BOC will likely follow the lead, and the housing market will definitely heat up next spring.
Why don’t they start building on the Belmont base. The amount of density that can be built there is astounding. Build high rises.
@Max : What is this nonsense of a post.
— signed: a salty sailor who’s been around long enough to know the good navy years are long gone
Leo, sales up from last year, but wasn’t last year historically low? How are prices? Inventory? With bond yield trending up, will we have higher fixed rates for longer? What’s your take?
Generations have been saying the same shite forever . 2024 will look cheap in 10 years and younger folks will be bitching how good people had it back then . Same ol gripping
You have choices in this world, either roll with the punches or be a renter forever.
Leo, good stuff , I’m liking those sales stats . Now that we are in a sellers market it’s time for prices to start pushing up .
Arguments – weak. Goalpost moving – world class.
When Patrick gets back to us with statistics showing how easy it is for young single income families to afford SFHs in BC I for one look forward to continuing the discussion.
No sign of the sales rate slowing down. Still running 60% ahead of the pace last year.
41% of BCers get help from parents, leaving the (59%) majority (like you) getting no help. So nothing remarkable about your experience there
Moreover, you appear to have conceded my point – which is that buying a home on one income in BC is still a common place occurrence (25% of all buyers are solo in BC). Unless you want to dispute that point, I’m happy to leave it at that.
I’m guessing that would be inclusive? That’s like $42.50 per day. You can’t even get a Starbucks latte with a croissant for that.
According to Craigslist a one-bedroom downtown condo ranged from $1,600 at the “Sandpiper” to $2,850 for an executive 16th floor penthouse. Average is $2,042
Two-bedroom range from a low of $1,800 for a suite in Chinatown to a high of $3,800 for a 1,200 square feet suite in the Falls. Average at $2,766
Cheapest downtown studio at the Dominion is $1,275 per month
Median price for a downtown one-bedroom last month was $462,000 which calculates to a GRM of 19 using the annual average rent for a one-bedroom
Median price for downtown two-bedroom was $682,500 which is a GRM of 20.5
A GRM between 15 to 20 is normal.
“currently about 25% of homes in BC are purchased by solo buyers on one income – just like you were in Vancouver in the 1980s”
No not just like me, because I bought a detached house, not just a “home”. Get back to us when you have stats for buyers of detached houses in Vancouver only, not all of BC. I’ll go easy on you and let you use the whole metro not just the City.
Oh and without parental help too.
Totally. Wake me up when even the biebs can’t afford Victoria.
Mobility is one of our few constitutional rights.
Home ownership in Victoria isn’t a birthright.
You said you grew up on the prairies, so is that where you dad pulled this off? It’s still possible today on the prairies. I’ve got a nephew in their 20’s out there that owns 5 homes.
Certainly it is possible for influencers, youtube stars, e-sports athletes, etc.
Going back to the subject of the post. The military housing in Victoria is a bit of a joke. Look at the satellite images of the main military housing areas in Victoria. Belmont area in Colwood and Macaulay Point area in Esquimalt. Houses are teeny by modern standards and there are laughably few of them given the space available. Even just sticking to SFHs and the existing development areas you could easily fit double or triple the number of houses in those areas. If the satellite photos don’t convince you, go wander around those areas and you’ll be struck by how much underutilized space there is. (Don’t worry about Max’s comment re military police. You can freely wander those areas if you don’t cause trouble.) On top of that there are significant military areas completely undeveloped for either housing or military infrastructure.
.>>> Hate to be a bore, but I bought a detached house in the City of Vancouver half a dozen years out of university, after paying off student loans, on one normal income, with no parental help. How many people in a similar situation could do that today in Victoria, never mind Vancouver?
I know you are proud that you were able to buy a home on one income in the 1980s. Where you lose me (and possibly others) is assuming that this doesn’t occur just as often today, if not more. . What you don’t seem to realize is the achievement of a single buyer to purchase a home in BC is not a worthy tale from a bygone era. It is a very common occurrence today, where currently about 25% of homes in BC are purchased by solo buyers on one income – just like you were in Vancouver in the 1980s.
——- statCan reports that in 2019 a full 25% of home purchases in BC were by single buyers. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=4610006201&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2018&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2019&referencePeriods=20180101,20190101
— financial post article “Statistics Canada data from 2018-2019 shows that in B.C., one of the most expensive markets in the world, about one-quarter of the first time buyers are typically single”
https://financialpost.com/moneywise-pro/single-homebuyers-face-an-uphill-battle-but-ownership-is-possible
——28% of homebuyers plan to buy alone, especially in young age groups https://www.danplowman.com/blog/why-more-canadians-are-buying-homes-alone-insights-and-trends.html
——-==—-==
So perhaps you can enlighten us, what do you consider remarkable about you buying a home alone in the 1980s, when currently 25% of purchases in BC are currently made by solo buyers on one income? Should they all be like you, boasting for the next 45 years to all who will listen about this “special” achievement?
Could be. Certainly the Republican’s obsession with this issue suggests that they think they are on to something.
Totally. That’s one thing that hasn’t changed on HHV. Always some fogies like barrister or patrick saying nothing’s changed and anyhow “boy we had it hard back in our day too”.
Patriotz said purchasing a detached home on one income with no parental help. Would love to see the statistics you are reading that says 44% of under 35 y.o. Canadians have been able to achieve that.
A good tattoo artist is $3 per minuet. $3x60min=180x12hours=$2160per/day.x 30days=$64800per/mo.x 12 months=$777,600per year. Some talent requires no schooling at all. considering 30 hours is a good average for the time it takes to do a single sleeve, taking into account that this is the mid range for size of arm. With the popularity of the culture, and given the expense, most opt for one hour intervals over the course of several months to complete a single sleeve.
The demand is very high.
After reading the last twenty posts I was enlightened with the knowledge that homes in Victoria are expensive. Not helpful.
Dad, the quote below is from a paid subscription that I am not at liberty to name without permission. Sorry. You just have to trust me it’s accurate.
“But there is some polling already which suggests that cultural issues in general, and this issue in particular, were the greatest drivers of swing voters turning to Trump.”
I agree Vancouver was different back in the days, a hell of a lot more going on today . It’s become an international city . No shopping or restaurants for one
Where is the data supporting this? From what I’ve read, the economy and immigration were the number one issues.
Ahem. Vancouver and Toronto have always been the most expensive cities in Canada, vying for first place from time to time.
I could afford Vancouver despite the outsized prices because the whole country was more affordable at that time.
It look like many people “leave their homes/communities” for more affordable housing and economical reasons.
A rapist? Who’s that?
Yes, they were so concerned about protecting women that they elected a rapist. Makes a lot of sense.
“Personally I think we are heading into an economic headwind and a possibility of a big tax hike, because Canada is straddled with a massive deficit and large number of 60-64 year old cohort. The crisis will exacerbate with slower population growth, and a governing body that have absolutely zero economic plan that like squander precious money and time on gender identity and unrealistic environment goals. To make matter worst the vocal general public screams for more spending on social services and ineffective enviro projects.”
Demographics is a major headwind to growth and deficits around the world, but tax hikes are not on the lips of any serious politician seeking re-election. Also, don’t agree that the “vocal general public” screams for more spending on social services”.
Interesting data beginning to come out of the US Election results. Although there were a myriad of reasons why the Country shifted to the right, ie. immigration, cost of living, the number one reason was transgender rights. Americans were disgusted to watch on liberal TV, a man beat the crap out of a women for the gold medal in the summer Olympics.
An ad that ran almost continuously in the swing states over the last 6 weeks said it all. “She is for they, them, he is for you.”
Qt, yep shite don’t add up . The U.S and Canada seem to be going in different directions. If we are a economic laggard we are probaly going to c lower rates and a lower dollar than many expect
Are you seeing condos pick up or still SFH/Townhouses leading the charge?
It is something that we have to wait to see how that play out.
Personally I think we are heading into an economic headwind and a possibility of a big tax hike, because Canada is straddled with a massive deficit and large number of 60-64 year old cohort. The crisis will exacerbate with slower population growth, and a governing body that have absolutely zero economic plan that squander precious money and time on gender identity and unrealistic environment goals. To make matter worst the vocal general public screams for more spending on social services and ineffective enviro projects.
Sad news about the passing of former premier John Horgan.
https://bc.ctvnews.ca/former-b-c-premier-john-horgan-dies-at-65-1.7107383
Marko, don’t think you’re adding in the trump pump. Trumps coming in and everything money is rocketing up
Month Nov Nov
Year 2024 2023
Net Unconditional Sales 170 394
New Listings 332 885
Active Listings 3,063 2,644
I am estimating 550 sales for the month.
Meh crises or no crises , whats the def. Its Canada we wouldnt be who we are if everything wasnt in a crises lol . All u can do is put on the blinkers and enjoy your day
There is no recent history (30-40 years) of government intervention increasing affordability. The best move they have recently made, decreasing immigration, may help, but remember, it was the cause of our crisis in the first place. J.T. admitted it himself.
>.> Increasing un affordability. Also means it should get worse (without active government intervention).
If the problem is limited to a few cities (like Victoria) , there shouldn’t be any government intervention. Because it isn’t a “crisis”. There will always be cities and neighborhoods with high prices, and that isn’t something for government to fix.
People that can’t afford $800k homes in Victoria can buy smaller Victoria homes ($600k) or move to Winnipeg ($300k), Regina ($350k) or Edmonton/Calgary ($375k).
All of Canada can’t live in Victoria, Vancouver or Toronto.
I bought a single detached house in 2014 with a 15k down payment. It’s a time line that shows a trend of increasing in affordability. Unless you want to get into a big discussion about the frontier effect and the closing of the Canadian economy and other intense topics we can just leave it at the most obvious point. Y’a know? Increasing un affordability. Also means it should get worse (without active government intervention).
>> Yes I think unfortunately there are many older folks who just don’t seem to be able to accept that the game has changed. It truly is more difficult for young people today — and there’s plenty of stats/evidence to support that. I mean, my dad dropped out of school in grade 8, got a body-man certificate, and bought a house by 19. No one can tell me that trajectory is at all possible today.
And you bought a home here too. Why do you need to refer to your dad’s generation?
Well there’s probably an ownership rate of like 60%+ in places in quebec so that drags that stat up. Patrick you know this. The national stat is more or less meaningless in terms of extrapolating meaning to Victoria’s housing market.
>> How many people in a similar situation could do that today in Victoria, never mind Vancouver?
Well if you believe the chief of StatCan, in 2023 44% of Canadians under 35 have achieved what you did. Not in Vancouver, but in Canada overall. Back then Vancouver wasn’t so special (expensive) anyway, which is why you could afford it.
Yes I think unfortunately there are many older folks who just don’t seem to be able to accept that the game has changed. It truly is more difficult for young people today — and there’s plenty of stats/evidence to support that. I mean, my dad dropped out of school in grade 8, got a body-man certificate, and bought a house by 19. No one can tell me that trajectory is at all possible today.
Hate to be a bore, but I bought a detached house in the City of Vancouver half a dozen years out of university, after paying off student loans, on one normal income, with no parental help.
How many people in a similar situation could do that today in Victoria, never mind Vancouver?
So then what criteria would have to be fulfilled for you to call something a housing crisis? Or do you think there’s no such thing? What about an affordable housing crisis?
As for the plan analogy I like it except a plane ride is much shorter than where a person settles down and we are far less connected to the plane ride than we are to our home. So the analogy is limited because while it’s perfectly fine to tell people to move to the back of the plane if they can’t afford first class seats it’s not ok to suggest that people should have to leave their homes/communities if they find Victoria to expensive.
I too am fortunate to be able to live here (grew up on the prairies). But I acknowledge my privilege and don’t discount the struggles that others face.
There have been high housing prices in Victoria for a long time. I grew up out east, and remember reading about Victoria house prices in the 1970’s. The article was about a $400,000 house for sale, which made headlines across Canada. And then described the generally high house prices in desirable parts of Victoria. My reaction as a kid reading that was “wow, I’ll never afford to live there, must be a nice place”. And I pinch myself from time to time, that I am able to live here.
You can call these never-ending high prices in Victoria a “crisis” if you want. But there are plenty of places in Canada with much cheaper home prices. And if you read my post, I am clearly talking about “Canada home prices” overall. If Canada is a jumbo jet, Victoria is (expensive) seats in first class.
In the USA, there are extremely high house prices in Manhattan, Malibu and Beverly Hills. Shall we call that a crisis too?
The data was quoted by the chief of statcan in an interview here. https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/younger-canadians-have-been-on-a-home-buying-spree-driving-up-their-net-worth-statcan-110058047.html
They usually release the supporting data tables in a series of releases, presumably to maximize media exposure. The first release was two weeks ago about net worth.
Either way doesn’t make a ton of sense to me to pluck one national stat and conclude there’s no housing crisis based on that alone. Canada is very large (in terms of land) and our population is spread out and culturally diverse and economically diverse as well from one region to another. Anyway it defies common sense to suggest that most under 35s have no trouble buying here in Victoria. I must go with my common sense. Wages have not kept up with housing inflation and not enough housing was built. Therefore, many cannot buy. As for it being a crisis – can we at least agree that there’s an affordable housing crisis here? I mean, that would include problems with families and young people not being able to access housing that is affordable given their incomes.
Don’t see any stats on who is buying RE here, rather it’s about assets versus liabilities. Do you have some other source?
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/241029/dq241029a-eng.pdf
Victoria has an older population and probably a lot of young people leave due to the high cost of housing and better employment opportunities. How many people are leaving B.C. for Alberta. What’s the price difference between Victoria and Calgary for a similar house?
Leo posted the city breakdown of this back in 2019. Victoria has the lowest rate of 35 and under home owners in Canada. Lower than TO or Vancouver. At that time it was 27.5% of 35 and unders who owned something – mostly condos I’d guess – across the greater Victoria area. Not sure if there are newer stats on this. Home ownership rates in BC have been dropping yoy as prices rise faster than incomes.
https://househuntvictoria.ca/2019/06/12/victoria-millennials-y-u-no-own/
This is Canada wide. The data is from statcan, from the 2023 huge survey (30,000) called “Survey of Financial Security “ that they take every 4-5 years and compare results to spot trends.
Can someone please clarify if the 44% (under 35) who bought is particular to Victoria, BC, Canada? Please provide additional context because that does seem strangely high given wages and house prices.
Well to be clear, you’ve boasted on HHV about your high income, and ability to buy a $950k home now. But you’ve told us the details of how you’re waiting and saving for the home you really want which is $1.5 million. As you detailed here. https://househuntvictoria.ca/2024/02/03/january-teetering/#comment-111679
So you’re hardly a representative of the young people who actually can’t afford a home. And in no position to criticize your cohort that got family help to buy their starter home. You’ve decided to wait, which is fine. So stop blaming others (e.g. family wealth transfers) and live with your decision. Or better still, change your mind, buy now and be happy. Like so many (44%) of your cohort have already done.
Either way, to me none of this points to a “housing crisis” in the under 35 age group – which is my point. I consider it good news that so many (44%) in that age group have afforded to buy a home.
These guys might be looking for housing in the greater Victoria area…
Why are we spending 50 million on BC’s RCMP Community-Industry Response Group C-IRG that are nothing more than enforcement for the interest of industry billionaires? B.C. budgeted $230 million in 2022 to fill 270 rural and specialized RCMP officer positions, while other positions still remain vacant. C-IRG is unique to British Columbia, They are militarized, have no budget limit, and the officers get paid handsomely to enforce the protection of pipelines, mines, dams, and logging.
https://www.abbynews.com/news/ottawa-give-bc-short-term-certainty-on-rcmp-contract-policing-7387623
https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/rcmp-cirg-spending-resource-extraction-1.6705076
Remember this is in BC…Happening right now. Its no wonder we can’t export anything anymore…Its already been bought and paid for!
Patrick, homeownership rates rose in 2020-2021 among all cohorts.
That data is from mid-2023, and it reflects the pandemic home buying spree due to low mortgage rates among all these cohorts.
Who ever said that people were buying fewer homes in the pandemic?
Meanwhile that same survey shows that the people who bought in the pandemic made out like bandits and those who did not buy (a majority of those under 35) had minimal net worth increase from 2019 to 2023.
Enough with the gaslighting of people who cannot afford a home by pointing to how great it is for people who could afford a home (often due to family wealth transfers).
Yes that’s probably true under current governance.
Which is bullshit. Look at all the developing countries out there. We need better trading partners at the table.
Patrick, househunt is not the Optimist club .
Peter, i do agree with alot u are saying . I just believe that the game plan is still going going to be asset inflation , as it’s the easiest of things to do . Canada can no longer manufacture and compete and we are pretty much against selling our natural resources
CFB Esquimalt Facilities in Colwood. Sometimes referred to as the 14th municipality of Greater Victoria is a community in itself and I can assure you they are very well maintained, family orientated and affordable. This community stretches from the Esquimalt lagoon behind the Juan de Fuca Recreation Centre past the Elements Casino Victoria on the Colwood strip.
The Colwood Jetty on Wilfert Road in Colwood is the site of many CFB Esquimalt programs and services. Belmont Park on Belmont Road in Colwood is where many military families live. The land is owned and maintained by the Department of National Defense. The Military Family Resource Centre on Rosebank Road in Colwood provides programs, actvities, services and supports for the military community.
https://www.colwood.ca/discover-colwood/points-of-interest/canadian-forces-base-esquimalt
Baseline Ferry sails past the “Colwood Crawl.
With the Baseline commuter ferry service between the Colwood and Dockyard sides of CFB Esquimalt. More then 300 people line up at the CFB Esquimalt Colwood “D” jetty for a quick boat ride across the harbour each day. When asked why Baseline Ferry is the first choice for many commuters, first mate Ian Roberts says, “It usually comes down to two major factors for the passengers: the horrendous amount time it takes to drive that short of distance and the higher cost to commute by vehicle.”
https://www.lookoutnewspaper.com/baseline-ferry-sails-past-the-colwood-crawl/
https://www.vicnews.com/news/new-base-ferry-picks-up-the-slack-16091
Its a totally different world in there. They have their own Military Police force and they don’t really take kindly to outsiders coming in with the exception of Royal Roads University and Fort Rod Hill.
Well, I think declining productivity over a long period of time eventually does affect pretty much everything, including ability to buy RE. I do want to fire up the economy. We already have the first thing on your list, cheap credit (historically very cheap at current rates). Sure it may get a bit cheaper, but it’s not going back to where it was in recent history, and I wouldn’t want it there personally, I thought it distorted a lot of things. And this artificially-low recent period of interest rates, together with the immigration as you say, sure juiced up the economy like it was on steroids – in other words, again, artificially and with a hangover. And in the process of doing so, hiding the truth of declining productivity, with the much harder fixes, all now becoming more apparent. So yeah, I do think gdp matters.
And ok, I got the Trudeau quote wrong, my bad. But I think people know what I meant, a leader showing disdain for the economy with the arrogance of someone who’s never had to worry about money & insufficient understanding of how the economy actually affects everything we may want to do as a society.
I realize housing affordability isn’t likely to have a real solution, but let’s not make it worse by ignoring fundamental problems.
Great news about housing affordability for young people in Canada.
While HHV have been mired in a never-ending pity party about homes in Canada being unaffordable for young people. Statcan have recently reported something remarkable. Namely that over the last 5 years, young people (households under age 35) have gone on a buying spree, and managed to afford buying so many homes that their home ownership rate in the age group has increased from 36% to 44%. That’s not an an increase from getting older, it’s the “under age 35” group today has 44% home ownership, much better than than the under age 35 group of 5 years ago.
Let’s hear statcan and this article describe it as a buying spree. .
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https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/younger-canadians-have-been-on-a-home-buying-spree-driving-up-their-net-worth-statcan-110058047.html
Younger Canadians have been on a home-buying spree, driving up their net worth: StatCan
“ Home ownership among the under-35 cohort went from 35.8 per cent to 44.4 per cent, the largest per cent increase of any age group. “We definitely have a lot more younger homeowners,” said John Nicoletta, chief of Statistics Canada’s Centre for Income and Socio-Economic Well-Being Statistics, in an interview with Yahoo Finance Canada.
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So the questions:
1. is a home ownership rate of 44% for households under age 35 so low in Canada that we need to call it a housing crisis? We know that home ownership increases with age so they’ll soon be up with millennials – 54% home ownership and then GenX and Boomers >65%.
2. And when it increases from 36 to 44% in 5 years, why do we say that the housing crisis is getting worse?
3. If 44% is too low, what level of home ownership for households under age 35 must we see before we stop calling it a housing crisis?
Peter, Canada is a service based economy, I guess that’s why I was saying gdp doesn’t matter much . If u want to fire up the economy , let’s get back to cheap credit , immigration and condo’s , that’s the secret sauce .
Three people with no background in housing wielding this veto power in an affordable housing crisis… wonder what the staff briefing note recommended.
.> Perhaps you were thinking about the Trudeau quote “You’ll forgive me if I don’t think about monetary policy”, which is something politicians aren’t supposed to think about because we have an independent central bank.
This is nonsense.
Of course Trudeau should be thinking about “monetary policy”. The government of Canada (department of finance) does lots of thinking about monetary policy and plays a major role with the BOC in shaping it, as detailed in this “ Joint Statement of the Government of Canada and the Bank of Canada on the Renewal of the Monetary Policy Framework”. Notice how all of the statements on monetary policy are”The government and the bank agree that…”. And the government and the BOC in 2021 decided that that inflation target would be 2% and range of 1 to 3%. That’s monetary policy and that joint statement was released November 2021 around the same time (August 2021) that Trudeau said his idiotic “i don’t think about monetary policy statement”.
https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/news/2021/12/joint-statement-of-the-government-of-canada-and-the-bank-of-canada-on-the-renewal-of-the-monetary-policy-framework.html
This is just another of many reasons why Trudeau has failed and it’s “time for a change”
Well nobody said “you’ll excuse me for not worrying about the economy”, at least according to Google. Perhaps you were thinking about the Trudeau quote “You’ll forgive me if I don’t think about monetary policy”, which is something politicians aren’t supposed to think about because we have an independent central bank.
As for “the budget will balance itself” that was Trudeau saying that economic growth would result in a balanced budget. That is also what Erin O’Toole said,.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/otoole-balanced-budget-no-cuts-1.6159859
As others have said, there are plenty of legitimate criticisms that can be made of JT, so why make things up?
Come on man, we can do better than that! That’s like saying “the budget will balance itself”, or, wait for it, “you’ll excuse me for not worrying about the economy” – now (pop quiz) who said that, and would you want him to run anything?
Thank you for speaking out! I absolutely agree that our veterans deserve our support and it’s disgraceful that they have to struggle to get it.
Good points Leo.
And of course….. all housing for those in need should be rushed through.
Every group is important and every group must get housing.
(Not mats on floors either).