July 15 Market Update
A quick update on the week’s market activity since I’m out of town for a couple weeks.
| July 2024 |
July
2023
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Wk 1 | Wk 2 | Wk 3 | Wk 4 | ||
| Sales | 134 | 285 | 595 | ||
| New Listings | 338 | 663 | 1125 | ||
| Active Listings | 3395 | 3417 | 2419 | ||
| Sales to New Listings | 40% | 43% | 53% | ||
| Sales YoY Change | -9% | +3% | +17% | ||
| New Lists YoY Change | +20% | +19% | +2% | ||
| Inventory YoY Change | +45% | 43% | +12% | ||
| Months of Inventory | 4.1 | ||||
As expected, sales are tracking around the same as last year, and will end with a positive year over year figure, maybe even in the double digits due to the extra business days. The same applies to new lists, which are running some 20% ahead and the end of the month will look stronger than actuals.
Inventory is still vacillating with an increase last week after a few drops, and it’s not entirely clear if we are past peak or not this year. However even if we stabilize here for a while, the year over year comparison should moderate due to the very late peak last year.
I’ve said it before but it’s remarkable how little has changed in sales activity in two years. In the last 12 months, residential sales were just 3% higher than the previous 12. Bond yields have moved up and down, rates have started to drop, there’s been huge changes in inflation and economic sentiment, much more selection for buyers, and an increase in incomes, but that changed little in buyers’ appetite for the market. To me it shows the importance of affordability which – despite all those changes – has barely budged in the same period. Though we have a higher percentage of rate-insensitive cash buyers than most cities in Canada, it seems the bulk of buyers are still dependent on credit to buy here. Hence I’m still of the view that we are going to need to see affordability improve from these levels before we see substantial improvements in sales activity.
Any chance of getting stats on closed sales under/above asking and assessment price?
I mean, up 2% from last year is strong? I was expecting a little more given the better fixed rates available.
New post: https://househuntvictoria.ca/2024/07/22/death-by-ssmuh-ssmuh/
Sales stronger than I expected. If we get a rate cut Wednesday I expect August half decent.
There is a strong probability of dying within your lifetime.
Why even discuss topics you have absolutely no control over, like affordable housing.
https://youtu.be/HuxJqIs2a-Y?si=cjgs-eHGcfeQI-M9
Since when is being exposed to poor air quality irl fear mongering? You have to breathe and… science… Bad news, also hard to avoid the effects.
Lyme’s disease, also a real risk although there are only 12-14 cases a year diagnosed in BC. Good news though, it can take up to 2½ days of a tick living on a person before there is a notable risk of disease, so checking after being outside is critical and effective.
Lack of ability to discern or research relevant facts and/or inability to apply logic and reason to relevant facts leads to a bad case of circular or irrelevant jibber jabber.
Could a giant asteroid steal my girlfriend? If you ask stupid questions you get unhelpful answers. The risk from an earthquake is obviously not “sinking Vancouver Island”. The most damaging event (thankfully not judged to be super likely) would be a magnitude 7 rupture on the Leech River fault which runs right beneath the city. Less damaging but somewhat more probable within our lifetimes is the M9.0 megathrust quake. Not worth lying awake at nights, but seemingly worth at least some minimal preparation?
How is pointing out that most of BC is currently covered in wildfire smoke fear mongering? Even if you think you are immune to the health impacts many find the smoky skies a bit depressing.
Some short term relief for many areas of BC may be on the way with a stronger westerly flow https://firesmoke.ca/forecasts/current/
People living in large parts of Vancouver Island—including Greater Victoria—are at risk for Lyme Disease, according to the BC Centre for Disease Control’s (BCCDC) online map.
Bangor (SSBN base in WA state on the Kitsap peninsula) is 90k from Victoria and unlike here is a major target in a theoretical nuclear war.
As long as we are into fear mongering. How about this Introvert.
What cities in Canada would be targeted in the nuclear war?
John’s, Nfld., Saint John, N.B., Toronto, Windsor, Winnipeg, Vancouver and Victoria and the areas immediately surrounding them could be considered as the more likely target areas. A 5 megaton explosion would effectively destroy any of these target areas.
Or this.
Could an earthquake sink Vancouver Island?
No. Vancouver Island is part of the North American plate. The fact that there is water between Vancouver Island and the mainland is function of the current position of sea level. However, the west coast of Vancouver Island will drop as much as a metre or two when the next megathrust earthquake occurs.
Seems we aren’t safe anywhere.
Toxic smoke blanketing most of Western Canada these days, except the West Coast (so far).
What house-price premium would you pay to breathe clean(er) air every summer?
https://map.purpleair.com/1/mAQI/a10/p604800/cC0#4.73/49.79/-108.81
Building a 4 plex doesn’t have to make economic sense as long as prices are going up . By the time you’re finished building the market usually catches up . Everyone wins
If I remember correctly, soft costs on a condo is about 225 grand per unit . That’s Dcs and everything else . I’m probaly quoting Van but I’m sure Vic is going to pretty close .
Really don’t understand your math or repeated reference to lowering DCCs so ADUs or other housing “makes economic sense”.
Currently these are the DCCs in Victoria:
SFH $6871
Medium Density $6238 per unit
High density $3335 per unit
Even if these relatively low fees were brought to zero not sure how it would make economic sense at today’s land, construction and borrowing costs, not to mention how is the infrastructure going to be funded for new construction?
Incredible. Assuming this is true, this means that no one bothered to do napkin math before deciding that upzoning the province would lead to “densification”. Instead, it will lead to “nothing”, and a bunch of made-up excuses why “nothing” is happening.
The fourplex in the city, only makes sense if one can buy an older existing house on a 5,500 square foot lot for around $750,000.
However, home owners are willing to pay closer to a million for land to build a single family home in the city.
Double the DCCs, permits before construction, etc, before construction can start for a single family and half them for a missing middle?????.
The Province (Ontario) and municipalities are working together and supporting the “use-it-or-lose-it” approach via provincial legislation. And yes, it’s not a blanket SFH upzoning like BC, but targeted based on need. Which I also like.
https://realestatemagazine.ca/ontario-unveils-housing-legislation-to-cut-red-tape-accelerate-home-construction-orea-board-thoughts/
“On Wednesday, the Government of Ontario introduced new housing legislation outlining the latest steps it’s taking to cut red tape and help municipalities get more homes built in their communities. Prioritizing infrastructure for ready-to-go housing projects with a new “use it or lose it” process to ensure that builders get moving once they receive their approvals”
The “use it or lose it” legislation in Ontario is concerned with development approvals granted by municipalities to developers. It’s not about any provincially mandated upzoning, which Ontario has been reluctant to implement.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ontario-housing-bill-would-bring-in-use-it-or-lose-it-rules-to-spur/
Looking like 2 more interest rate cuts this year , we are on the right track
Townhouses work , the lot has to be bigger than a traditional 5500 sq. I would agree we seem to build too many condos in Vic . A whole bunch more townhouses being built in Van , but not cheap
Emailed. Yes, 0.8 FAR for 3 or 4 unit structure.
Bingo! This is what was done in Auckland, and they limited most of it to 3 tall townhouses per property. While the impact on rent/house prices is debatable, they did build a lot of townhouses. As it is, our HHV housing advocates argued that G. Victoria shouldn’t be insisting on any minimum level of family units (townhouses, 3 bdr) , saying that the builders know best what size and number units to build. I think we should require more family sized units.
Another idea would have been to put a time limit on the upzoning, where it is available for N years, and then might stop or be renewed. That would encourage builders to “act now” rather than just wait. Ontario is doing this with some of their upzoning – adding a “use it or lose it” clause. This would also have the benefit of not increasing land values, since it isn’t a permanent upzoning for all SFH properties if not used. Of course once the new multi-home is built, the upzoning is permanent.
I often wondered if it would have been wiser in terms of providing better family accommodation whether the up zoning should have been limited to building traditional townhouses. Boasting the number of condo units in the city is easy and better accomplished by allowing taller towers in appropriate parts of the city (by way of example I thought the towers on the railway lands should have all been a minimum of 23 floors and up to forty if the developer fancied that. In point of fact, small condo apartment units are not “Missing” in the city but townhouses are. I must admit that it was a great spin campaign.
When it comes to the missing middle the cities have to lead by example. Victoria has dozens and dozens of small lots used as parks and gardens that could be utilized. I suspect so does Oak Bay. These could be developed as missing middle rentals, providing examples to small scale builders that it can be done.
Time will tell, but yes, so far it’s looking like that for BC upzoning on SFH lots. This may be similar to the “big flop” seen in California upzoning legislative changes. With only tiny numbers seen (“limited or non-existent”) compared to expectations.
https://www.fresheconomicthinking.com/p/upzoning-predictions-versus-reality
“ In 2021 California passed a law (SB9) to allow multiple dwellings on parcels zoned for single-dwelling units. Overall, despite years of effort, new housing development isn’t taking off in California. We found that SB 9 activity is limited or non-existent in these thirteen [major Californian] cities “
Rezoning the dog park for high density with a view to student units would be even better.
They could rezone the UVic dog park for medium density residential and then tell the province they have done their part.
There is unlikely to be strong opposition to that.
I doubt that very many as in hardly at all townhouses will be built under the missing middle. Mostly small apartment or condo units. Simply more profitable to do condos.
Is there a link to the new zoning bylaw, I know they were recommending something like 0.8 FAR for more than three units, wondering if that actually got adopted.
Sure.
Condos. Pretty oddball lot.
Sidekick , are u thinking condo units or do u have room for townhouses
Good for you Sidekick. Maybe you can keep us updated. It would be nice if the DCCs were a flat fee.
I’m pleasantly surprised by the updated zoning bylaws. I’m just starting to study it for a 3/4 plex I’m thinking about. I think there is a fair bit of potential for bigger R4 and R5 lots.
Here’s a Global News link that covers a lot of what we have been discussing this month
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/video/news/idea-of-what-makes-a-neighbourhood-liveable-has-changed-since-the-pandemic/vi-BB1pLpWX?ocid=socialshare&cvid=c2b89de532b54e76c0c1fd76807ef912&ei=127
Marko you shouldn’t confuse Title fraud and mortgage fraud. Title fraud in BC is rare. The LTSA guarantees the Title to the property.
With mortgage fraud the true owner of the property must bear the expense of cancelling the mortgage.
There is also application fraud when you provide false information on a mortgage application. Someone else may try to falsify your documents or encourage you to do so. When that happens, you may be held responsible for committing mortgage fraud. It may also impact your ability to obtain credit or a mortgage in the future.
I know of one family that built an ADU for the purpose of having their mother live in it (extended family). By the time all the costs were paid they couldn’t do so as they wouldn’t be able to pay the mortgage. Instead they rented to travelling health workers at over market rents.
For most home owners, living in the core districts, building an ADU doesn’t make economic sense. In other municipalities with low DCCs it can.
Definitely makes sense for extended families where the costs are secondary. But unlike other municipalities Oak Bay’s population hasn’t been increasing.
But I was thinking more along the lines of reducing or even eliminating development cost charges for ADU’s if they are rented to non-family for X amount of years. Or even a zero percent loan as we do for solar panels. Then it may be possible to build an ADU that will have a positive return to the home owner.
The city will still have increased property taxes as the value of the property should increase.
I’m not giving up on Oak Bay to meet its targets. Oak Bay is just going to need to be more flexible.
Easy sell for extended family though.
Makes no financial sense to do this to rent out to strangers imo given the high cost to build, high cost to borrow, low rental return, and rtb restrictions. Just not a good economic or lifestyle choice.
Encouraging home owners to build accessory dwelling units (ADUs) in Oak Bay is going to be a hard sell. As higher income households prefer privacy over a mortgage helper.
There are one or two neighborhoods where home values are lowest in Oak Bay where ADUs are more likely to be built such as Henderson and North Oak Bay. However they are only about one-third of the land area of Oak Bay. And that is going to make it very difficult for Oak Bay to meet the provincial targets.
Oak Bay is a different animal relative to the other municipalities and the city council needs to be more creative and innovative.
Thanks Barrister…. I did get that:)
Oak Bay’s missing-middle housing could keep province from municipal interference
https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/oak-bays-missing-middle-housing-could-keep-province-from-municipal-interference-9248132
It’s usually started by the same internet arm chair general. I’ll let you guess who it is.
Deryk. I suspect Marko was being sarcastic.
Thank you Marko!
I couldn’t have described life in Sooke as well as you just did.
That’s just about it. I’m guessing you must know Sooke quite well:)
This whole covenant thing…..like how do we always end up in these complete non-sense nothing to do with real life discussions on HHV. It’s like the land title fraud discussion that went on days even thought we have this type of information readily available
“The LTSA reports that over the past 20 years, the land title system processed more than 16 million transactions. During this time, two claimants were paid from the assurance funds because of title fraud, four because of mortgage fraud and one because of a combination title and mortgage fraud. ”
Back to covenants, on a daily basis I look at upwards of 10 to 20 titles as I have a tab of all new listings, price changes, and sales that I review every single day, multiple times. I would say I look at least 3,000+ titles per year and such covenants I’ve seen less than one handful of times and for very specific scenarios. For example, I remember an owner in 10-mile point placed a covenant on a vacant lot he owned below his existing house limited the height of any new build to one story (so his ocean view wouldn’t be blocked) and then sold the lot. This is a very unique circumstance.
The odds of a bunch of owners getting together to place anti-development covenants on their properties is only non-sense you’ll ever hear on HHV.
i/ I just paid a law firm $6,200 to draft/registered a covenant on my property required by Colwood as part of a rezoning condition. My close friend just paid $13,000 to have a Missing Middle dedication/covenant registered on his COV project. Good luck getting a bunch of neighbours to fork over thousands of dollars.
ii/ The covenants would devalue the properties and at the end of the day as stupid as people are, greed overrides stupidity. Someone at some point would talk some sense in the owners and be like “so let me get this straight, you want to apply this to your title to devalue your property?” Especially in Canada when you don’t really have people living in house for generations, re-sale is important as everyone is always selling/buying/building their dream home. If you devalue your current property, guess what, that dream house with a movie room you want to build probably isn’t attainable.
(I’ll wait for a non-sense HHV reply on how an anit-developer covenant would increase market value as some buyer will value such).
iii/
This, are people not paying attention to the news? You had buildings that had no rentals, no kids allowed for 40+ years and Ebby with one stroke of a pen removed that right. You had people operating legal licensed short term rentals that were with one stroke a pen wiped out. With one stroke of a pen multiplexes were legalized on every lot on your street, etc.
You think the government can’t say any private covenant restricting development is not enforceable? At this point the government can do whatever it wants in terms of property rights and for once I 100% agree with Barrister.
Please do let me know when a bunch of owners get together and apply covenants to their property, lol.
No everything is perfect in Sooke, we get it. You go down to the beach and everyone is so happy all you see is smiles and the warmest interactions with fellow community members you’ll find anywhere in Canada.
Just for the record…I have to say, as a resident of Sooke, that there is no such things as “nightmare traffic” in Sooke.
They do have periods of times when there is road construction going on from time to time, as there is at this time, but honestly…. which community doesn’t?
There are loads of opportunities in Sooke for anyone who has a positive attitude and has graduated from kindergarten.
And this is what you get from a non Victoria builder for $275 to $300 a square foot.
https://youtu.be/6_xmvjn8pH8?si=_LP0551TZ8vf-MBL
or this for $350 to $375 a square foot
http://app.standardres.ca/4668-galdwell-rd/
This is just to give you a sense of how much Victoria charges builders for development costs. Now someone has to pay for the city infrastructure maintenance and bike lanes. If it’s not the builder then it will have to come from increased taxes.
Broke the 600 listing mark for condo in Victoria’s core today. The last time that happened was Q3 and Q4 of 2020 when condo prices were $100,000 less than today.
Similar with house listings in the core as we are back to a level last seen in Q3 and Q4 of 2019 when house prices were $400,000 less than today.
There is also a difference between a covenant that runs with the land and a personal covenant.
A covenant will be said to run with the land if the following elements are present:
1) the covenant is negative in substance, creating a burden on the covenantor’s land, similar to an easement;
2) the covenant touches and concerns the land in that it benefits or enhances the value of the benefitted land;
3) the benefitted and the burdened land must be precisely defined in the document creating the covenant;
4) the agreement should state the covenant is imposed on the covenantor’s land to protect the identified land of the covenantee;
5)except as allowed by statute, title to the benefitted and burdened land must be registered;
6)and except as allowed by statute, the covenantee and the covenantor cannot be the same person.
It’s not clear from the article which one they intend to register?
Just heard a new one recently. Instead of writing a letter the buyer realtor will just tell seller realtors a sob/nice story about their buyer hoping the seller would take their offer over someone else’s.
Sigh…. another fantasy scenario.
Somehow you are going to have to get that restrictive covenant past the the Deputy Registrar at the Land Title & Survey Authority.
Not all covenants are registrable. For example. You may want to register a convent preventing home owners to sell to people of Chinese decent. That would be denied. And in this example any property with such a convent would be unenforceable.
That is assuming that the Provincial Government under Ebby does not simply enact that such covenants are not binding.
If 10 houses plan the covenant… One holdout means there might be one multi-home in the future. That doesn’t kill the idea for the rest, as it’s better than up to 9 multi-homes surrounding someone.
Patrick, you’re right about the wisdom of a covenant plan being contingent on the type of adjacent properties. We’re immediately adjacent to proposed high rise towers which are approved in the new OCP. No covenant desired. The only thing that may stop the corridor rezones is an Eby defeat, but even then, Saanich council very much is wedded to the idea of the great majority of new housing growth being on and adjacent to the Shelbourne, Quadra and McKenzie transit corridors. We realized a while ago that the majority of Saanich residents will prefer that too, because it leaves their neighbourhoods pretty much alone. 4610 new homes, NIMBY. Put them in the corridors (majority apartments) and leave us alone. Unless the new Houseplex with 4 doors takes off as an achievable idea on current SFD lots, most people in SFD dwellings in Saanich will see neighbours build suites and/or garden suites, perhaps duplexes/lot subdivision 2 new homes with suites, & their increased noise & traffic will be commensurate with that probably reasonably small increase in population. One of my neighbours – across the street, in another group of possible land assembly- told me “Saanich residents will never let this happen.” I feel the opposite.. other Saanich residents will be OK that our little area becomes nothing but 3 and 6 story apartments to satisfy the need for new housing, far away from their peaceful outer Gordon Head SFD. Even people in the inner part of our neighbourhood won’t care about the changes, except that they will make getting a parking spot at the grocery store harder. And really, where we are located – it should be developed with higher density and more services. I see the logical case for it. (I also see that very little of this building is going to take place if interest rates or property values don’t come down- the 4610 is probably not achievable, and neither are the targets to come after that 5 year number.)
Game theory aficionados may recognize this as a “prisoner’s dilemma” situation. It works only if everyone participates. But if there’s no guarantee that everyone participates, any individual owner will come ahead by staying out and profiting from the upzoning.
Which is why such covenants are almost always imposed by the developers, rather than after the fact.
If it’s a small group of neighbours, in a defined area, and they’re all opposed to upzoning, they could all simultaneously add covenants to their property disallowing upzoning. Many neighborhoods in Victoria have covenants like this (broadmead, parts of ten mile point etc.).
Of course adding the covenants may affect property value, but it could be lower or higher depending on the circumstances. A SFH on a cul-de-sac with covenants to remain as SFH might be worth more to a buyer than a SFH that has a multi-unit property zoning beside it.
adding covenants has been done in other cities for years to preserve SFH zoning, (e.g. Edmonton) https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/property-covenants-new-weapon-in-door-to-door-battle-over-infill-housing-1.3597594
Thanks, VicRe, we are definitely intending to include our builder in the planning stage, although admittedly we are a little late. We’ll hopefully be getting back into our planning this fall and ready to go.
“Sidekick”, I’d recommend a virtual build in Sketchup. I’ll keep this in mind as we work towards our next chapter, thanks
Gosig Mus, “it’s a large house”. I appreciate the question. We started with aprox 1700′ for our family on our first purchase, moved up to 3000′ with a suite, then moved to 4200 with a suite plus movie room / storage. We are now looking at our forever home. We are planning 4,000 feet including 1,000 feet for family that will become a 2 bed / 2 bath suite for my MIL. In reality, our space is 3,000′ which I think is reasonable.
We spend a lot of time at home and want a decent space plus land to enjoy our world.
Added, sorry: In terms of features, we like entertaining space and often hold parties of 25-30 people, we want space for people to visit and stay over, and we generally enjoy our our personal space. TMI, but my wife and I don’t sleep in the same room and need additional space – I think she’s embarrassed that she snores 🙂 maybe.
Thank you for the suggestions, Marco and Whatever. Marco, we’re planning ahead with our neighbours. Our houses are being rezoned by Saanich (most likely) and there are a couple of reasons why no one on our street will want to stay on after that happens… we’ll see how the group of us can keep it together 🙂 I know this will be a challenge. And we’ll see if Saanich actually rezones & hopefully interest rates drop in the meantime.
Also a seansoned airbnb operator lmao
Steve Nguyen at NAI Commercial (Victoria)
He’s done a lot of developments.
You could say this about the majority of communities on Vancouver Island. Cordova Bay has beaches, Oak Bay has beaches, Esquimalt has great spots, etc., and you don’t have to deal with nightmare traffic.
Even if you are in Kettle Creek you are close to hiking in Goldtream.
Windows are pretty cheap these days, relatively speaking. I have seen builders design cheaper houses around “rejected” window inventory. For example, they will call up the local Victoria Plygem rep and have him or her send them all the rejected windows in the warehouse (wrong size delivered, etc.) and then have the designer design around those.
Every time I list a newer custom house or an extensive renovation I ask the sellers/owners about their relationship with the builder/contractor and so far if they are on talking terms with that individual that is way above average. I still haven’t come across an owner that was along the lines “had a great experience with the builder and after the home was finished we all went out for dinner.”
My father and I did a custom build on the Gorge waterfront back in 2011 and first and last one 🙂 Will only do spec now and will only sell 100% completed homes with occupancy in hand. Even with the few spec homes we sold during construction were super annoying dealing with the buyers “ohhh just one small change here.” Had a buyer come onto site on a weekend unauthorized, trip, and crack her head requiring stiches. Just too much headache dealing with people. I don’t know how Terry Johal, GT Mann, and some of these custom home builders manage upwards of 10+ custom homes at a time. I can see why Abstract got out of the business and went multi-unit.
I also find it interesting how people obsess over the stupidest details in custom homes and then sell it like two years later, and naturally the buyer could care less about the detail they obsessed over.
I’ve done a few in my career, but refuse to do such at this point. The last one I sold on Shelbourne was just a complete nightmare on my end. Three different sellers that didn’t communicate with each other all with different priorities/expectations. First two developers collapsed their offers after a month close to midnight on the condition removal date. In the end, when we did sell it to a third developer I had to waive my commission on the middle house to get them to sign off, so I could make a commission on the other two houses at least.
Selling three random houses 10x easier than selling a three house land assembly, imo.
I have seen realtors have the developer sign a contract that they will list the finished product (townhomes/condos) with them on completion to make it worth while but I am not sure how that works if you are suppose to be representing the seller. Also, with everyone now building rentals (not strata) not sure if that is even a viable option.
I like this guy for land assembly -> https://www.realtor.ca/agent/1437036/mikko-ikonen-103-4400-chatterton-way-victoria-british-columbia-v8x5j2
but good luck selling a land assembly right now, tough market out there.
Yes have someone review it to make sure your designers didnt fuck anything up in the drawings (more custom it is, higher the probability). Much cheaper to correct that before construction starts. You dont want to be half way through and have your contractor tell you something they found in the drawings is wrong and now they have to rip stuff out to correct it.
“ And our design is large by my standard at over 4,000′ “
That is a very large house. Genuinely curious as to what features you wanted that makes it that size.
Well first change order will come after it’s framed lol
Westerly – I’d recommend a virtual build in Sketchup or other modelling software. Costs some dollars, but you save it on the backend in saved time and mistakes. Might also be some savings by ‘right-sizing’ components.
And our design is large by my standard at over 4,000′, but country kitchen, raised ceilings but not vaulted, that sort of design. Nice home without going broke.
VicRe, I appreciate your discussion and am interested in this, “I would make sure the design is thoroughly vetted from a constructability standpoint”. Are you suggesting vetting the feasibility of the build from a planning perspective (not financial)? Are you able to provide a bullet list of your thoughts here? We have plans put together by a designer based on our lot layout and zoning etc. We are learning quickly that Designers are also car salespersons and, well, back to my risk aversion it’s hard to trust in this industry. Thanks in advance.
All depends on the complexity of the build, if half way though and you want to change the kitchen layout that involves major mechanical/electrical redesign then that would be a hefty change order in a fixed price contract. Regardless I would make sure the design is thoroughly vetted from a constructability standpoint, preferably by the contractor you are going to use as that’s where a lot of the risks lie.
VicRe, I’ve looked into it before but everything I’ve heard and been told by builders is that the premium we would pay for them to take on our risk would be too high. I also understand that you can really get hit with change-orders. I think I’ve just decided years back, rightly or wrongly, that it’s not worth the premium.
Not that “cost-plus” bears no risk, it certainly does. All three below are hands-on builders where they are onsite everyday, hammering nails while they arrange various contractors. There’s risk in that where it would be pretty easy to pad hours.
I know some contractors will charge a straight management fee but are not hands-on onsite. I wonder if this would be a better way to go.
Although I’ve dabbled in real estate for a couple decades, I’m actually pretty risk-averse. Going through the Builder selection process has been very difficult. We’ve since met with another builder who comes highly recommended by a good friend, a friend that I would trust with my own family. Their family has used this guy for several builds and cannot say enough. His work has been spec and semi-custom and middle of the road to the three above. This is likely who we will go with.
Have you explored a fixed price contract? How much of a premium is there for that compared to the cost estimate on the Cost Plus contracts?
It’s not a rabbit hole, its a fundamental concept. a Cost Plus contract structure is not the reason why a build would go over the cost estimate, which is something you are implying (the actual reason is because the cost estimate was wrong, hence the term estimate). Why not just say the current cost to build is too expensive to prove whatever point it is you are trying to make??
Actually, when we were interviewing 3 builders for a “cost plus” contract a while back we asked each of them what they estimate the build costs to be. By my memory, one said aprox $300 / foot, one said $400-$450, and the other one $600 +. These were not quotes, just their estimate of cost. We’ve seen the work that each of them do and believe they were being honest in terms of what they produce: $300 / foot guy believes in cutting costs through smaller and fewer windows, Ikea cabinets, laminate flooring, basically minimal everything; middle guy doesn’t scrimp with your money and self-proclaimed that he tends to over build; and, would love to hire the $600 builder – his work is truly amazing, but not in our reality.
This was just before interest rates took off and while building costs were skyrocketing. We still haven’t signed a contract – which will be Cost-Plus when we do.
Sorry, tripped over the rabbit hole.
You’re right, but do I want the post to be about the difference between those or should just keep it simple (KISS) so that the average reader can understand the difference from building a house on speculation for a future sale by the builder rather than a contract with an owner.
Why would I want to go down that rabbit hole when it is not the point of the post.
You seem to have a misunderstanding between “cost plus” jobs and original contract estimate. One is a contract model and the other one is a non-binding cost estimate.
Yes Frank, we have a lot of older homes in the city that under utilize the lots. Now we are caught between a rock and a hard place as the cost of land, demolish the older home, and construction has skyrocketed while interest rates have increased.
A lot of these older small homes have been upgraded but few have been made larger. A leftover from the days of gentrification and house flipping. Now these updated homes are too expensive to knock down, build and make a profit. Very few new builds in Victoria are homes built on speculation. Most are cost plus jobs where the end cost is a lot higher than the original contract estimate.
But the shorter commute is a main reason why people choose to live in victoria instead of the mainland…..
Our family loves Sooke…..as I’ve said many times.
If I had to commute, I would not recommend it.
Although, if you are used to a commute, as (((millions))) of people around the world do, then the commute from Victoria to Sooke is actually not that bad. (For example: Try getting from downtown Vancouver to Langley or possibly White Rock….first having to cross the Granville street Bridge, then the oak street bridge, then the tunnel etc. That is what I would call a tough commute.)
But I personally still don’t like commutes of any kind. But millions do it.
A commuting lifestyle is hard on families who have to pick up kids etc. Hard on the nerves. Hard on the budget if you include all the extra costs such as the need for an extra car, extended daycare costs etc.
Our family includes my wife and I, who are retired. Our children who both work from their homes.
We all chose Sooke because of it’s beautiful surroundings, it’s sense of community, and the great value of the real estate prices.
Went for a walk down a trail to a beach yesterday and met two young fellows coming up the trail, beaming from ear to ear, eager to show us the nice fish they had just caught.
I thought….. marvelous…… isn’t Sooke great!
Investing in real estate has become very precarious. Probably a lot of better ways to invest your money. Like stuffing it in your mattress. I think the number one problem is the cost to produce it. A good percentage of our supply has met its life expectancy. Interesting radio segment on sand, of all things. Apparently, we are running out of the type of sand (desert sand is too round and doesn’t bind) needed in concrete and glass. Something else to worry about.
Who wants to wait four months to get a condo only to discover the tenant wont move out and the hearing is a year from now?
It isn’t just about price but also salability.
On average this year it has taken 57 days to sell a one-bedroom downtown condo with a tenant. It took 47 days to sell a vacant one-bedroom condo. And 38 days for the rest.
So let’s see if this changes with the new rules.
Re: Landlord Use Notice Generator. We’ve given notice that we’re moving in a couple times when buying and once when moving into a rental we owned. For our own property that we moved into, tenant showed up almost 6 months to the day to say “hello”… (or to see if we actually stayed there). Good for them, keeping the LL honest.
Although the needle has moved 180 degrees or miles in favor of tenants (and continues to move), it is still navigable, provided the LL sticks to the rules. Not personally comfortable providing my SIN, unless tenant has no access to it – which presumably they don’t. Most collectors of SINs these days accept XXX XXX 123, hopefully the Province accepts this as well, or guarantees security.
I would go 180 miles out of my way to evict a tenant for LL use before listing for sale. Requires advanced planning including intending to stay in the home for 12 months but well worth the effort as compared to the rest of this shite show. Cash for Keys? FO.
Thursty, if the people you know are nice people there is a really good chance you are too.
Oak bay , doesn’t get any finer . Some of the nicest people you will ever meet
Speaking about Oak Bay there is a huge range in prices in that small community. From as low as $949,000 for a home in North Oak Bay to a high of $11,950,000 for a waterfront in Uplands.
List Price to Assessment Ratios also have a massively wide range from as low as 0.75 to high of 2.74
BC Assessment are not generally that far off on their assessed values.
So while there are 98 houses for sale, I suspect many are not realistically priced. That makes the months of inventory calculation a not so good indicator as half the houses people just won’t bother to make an offer.. One could look at the days-on-market but real estate agents play with that by re-listing to drop the counter back to zero. That leaves the Sales to New Listings Ratio.
The SNLR has been steady over the last five months, except for June when there were 4.3 new listings added to every house that sold. So why are did so many Oak Bayers want to leave Oak Bay in June? Myself I don’t think it is the locals so much as new owners in Oak Bay. I took a look at the most expensive homes listed and most were purchased within the last five years. While those at the lower end have owned their property for longer. This just adds to the mystery of Oak Bay.
SNLR
0.53 feb
0.47
0.37
0.46
0.23 june
That’s how I feel about Sooke. I would love to live there, but would not love the commute. I love the smaller town, ocean, and all the hiking in the hills. If I didn’t have to work in the core, I’d strongly consider living there. Maybe when I retire 🙂
80% more rain? That just keeps the Oak Bay riff-raff out.
My thought is that investors will weigh the pros and cons of ownership when the suite becomes vacant. When an investor sells a vacant suite, the new owner can then either occupy the suite or use it as a rental. And that would have an effect on both the home occupier and rental markets as though it was a brand new never occupied unit. The investor would not be displacing a renter. It would no longer be a zero-sum game.
Currently 60 downtown condos (30%) have an immediate possession as compared to 18 (9%) that are subject to a tenancy. I think this is just another nothing burger as investors selling their suite will just adapt.
With PIPEDA the agent might have cause to redact the buyer’s name. That’s up to the real estate board’s lawyers to determine.
As for the birthdates that just to distinguish people with the same name. The government might be anticipating an increase in fake contracts. Anyone can go to an Office Supply store and buy a Contract of Purchase and Sale and fill it out.
Don’t forget Sooke gets about 80% more rain than Victoria as well as being colder in the winter, although it is beautiful in the summer.
The “Landlord Use Notice Generator” is up and running and wow! I can’t believe some of the things that are now required
Provide the tenant a copy of the contract of purchase and sale, subject removal and request from the buyer to provide notice to the tenant along with the 4 month notice itself.
Two months’ ago I had a tenant show up to my 1st time buyer’s address, knocked on the door and asked if my buyer would extend the rental (my buyer had purchased the rental condo and asked seller to give two months’ notice for buyer use). Tenant figured out where my buyer lived based on the old notice format (had buyer’s address). Not sure how I feel about birthdates being added, tenant getting a copy of the contract of purchase and sale (this could create a ton of issues for various reasons).
Insane. I think this has to impact market value of rented properties a bit, what buyer is going to want to deal with 4 months’ notice plus all this additional non-sense.
Can’t believe there is no privacy issues/concerns with handing over the contract of purchase and sale to the tenant.
Lots of positives about Sooke for sure – beaches, Potholes, hiking and MTB trails, cheaper RE, great fishing.
However if one, or worse both, earners in a family had to commute daily into Victoria or Saanich that would be one big fat negative that would blow those positives right out of the water for most families.
Sooke is a better option if you are working in the West shore. I suspect that there will be a lot more jobs appearing in the West Shore over the next decade.
Does anyone know of a realtor with a lot of experience handling land assembly sales? (Marko, do you? I’m not sure)
+1, plus with Sooke you drive for an hour and then you get stuck in congestion as you enter Sooke which must be incredibly frustrating at the end of a long commute. It isn’t like you spend 30 min getting out of the city and then the next hr is open road to your house.
People who haven’t experienced it don’t understand the annoyance of commuting for long periods. The toll it takes on you between a half hour commute vs a one hour commute is exponential.
I stopped taking listings in Sooke for the most part (will do for repeat client/friend only), but the few times a year I have to go out there I get agitated sitting in my car.
If retired, sure. Anything else, no thanks.
There is one currently listed for 1,099, wonder if they will throw in the towel.
Yes, but no views. A solid view unit still hasn’t gone below a million.
I deal with this in my job every single day both in terms of area (everyone lives in the best neighborhood) and improvements. Crazy thing is people have confirmation bias on their condo units in a tower and will come up with insane reasons as to why their unit is better (worth more) than an identical floorplan.
I was actually just about to make a YouTube video on this topic. I have lots of examples like when I do listing presentations and there is a hot tub I always tell the sellers to be prepared for the buyer to ask to have the hot tub removed and sellers look like deer caught in headlights…..”what do you mean, why wouldn’t someone want a lovely hot tub.”
Unless you have experienced traveling 1hr+ to work each way on for an extended period of time, you really don’t know what you are getting yourself into.
I think most people adopt a confirmation bias when they buy in a particular area and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. I don’t live in Sooke, but would consider it for the right property and can see the positives of living there despite the traffic.
And the foreign buyers ban is ridiculous too. I have tenants that easily earn enough to buy a house right now and want to but have to wait. So there’s a slow market and plenty of inventory but it’s being reserved for Canadians that aren’t stepping up to purchase these houses. All so the government can say they’re “helping Canadians.”
LMAO, again don’t quit your day job.
That’s the deal-killer for Sidney. Any community where airplanes on regular approach/takeoff routes have great close-up views of your backyard is going to be too loud.
Take away the airport and it’s a lovely little town. Any guesses on whether air travel is increasing or decreasing.
I’ll put myself on the opposite side of that bet: AI is going to under-deliver in most ways.
I wouldn’t be as negative on traffic solutions. Artificial Intelligence programs could make a dramatic difference in easing traffic congestion. That’s an AI company I would invest in.
They won’t be. Whatever traffic “fix” they come up with will be insufficient on Day 1 post-completion thanks to population growth, never mind the years it will take just to arrive at the insufficient “fix.”
All part of the joys and countless benefits of population growth!
Marco, re 2306 Galena: Last sale July 2022 – was that the absolute peak? I don’t see any other properties for sale around it that are also listed below last purchase – albeit, most last sale dates were 2017 or earlier but purchase prices were (generally) a fraction of the current asking. There’s one almost next door that is bigger and appears to have more value at $699K. Maybe 2306 simply over-paid, and you never know what the circumstances for sale are.
Aside from new developments higher up, that area of Sooke is 1970s, tired, and has minimal redevelopment potential currently. The properties are worth rent value at best. Until land value catches up to the utility for those properties, the highest and best use is as they sit, old single family homes.
All of that said, looking generally at the days on market it’s clear Sooke isn’t in favor at the moment. The newer properties with Pie in the Sky asking prices in other areas of Sooke will be sitting for a while longer.
Great idea!
Student residence building coming to Camosun’s Lansdowne campus
https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/student-residence-building-coming-to-camosuns-lansdowne-campus-9235435
Yes, that’s close to Leo’s condo median sales to assessment ratio chart, which fell 5% during that period (from 103% sept 2023 to 98% June 2024). At 98%, median still selling close to the July 2024 assessment.
If or when the traffic issues to Sooke are resolved then Sooke will have a lift in value.
Meanwhile Victoria is putting in another bike lane thereby increasing the travel times within the city which increases the cost of deliveries to homes as the delivery trucks can not do as many trips in a day.
Would that one sale change the median – NOPE
90 day median price including the sale $530,000 based on 211 sales
90 day median price excluding the sale $530,000 based on 210 sales
Median price in September 2023 was $575,900 that’s a 8 percent decline.. If we assume that the new owners purchased at fair market value then the most likely conclusion is that the original purchaser over bought from the developer.
Don’t use averages when the distribution of data is not symmetrical. Real estate prices are right skewed so you use a median.
https://youtu.be/MmaNxyfXrZU?si=ncSsoyV3nsCk78wq
New dockside with harbour views?
LMAO what a surprise, travel time to and from work affects the desirability of an area…. Water is also wet
BINGO!
“I doubt anyone in Oak Bay is feeling hammered either as they stroll down Willows beach, after having ridden their bike home from work versus spending 1.5 hrs each way in traffic.
Here is the reality, the traffic issues are starting to impact both the real estate and rental market in Sooke. I have a close friend that built a multi-plex in Sooke four years ago and for the first time last month he had a tough time renting out a unit that became vacant (for the same price as he started four years ago). Only five inquiries, two cancelled appointments ahead of time, two cancelled appointments in route as they got stuck in traffic and decided they didn’t want to deal with it so he was left with one person that actually came to view the unit.
If you are retired, sure, but anyone working that commute is just beyond crazy at this point, in my opinion. In the daily commute time to Sooke I can get a full workout the gym of my building, go for a swim in the pool afterwards, eat and go for a leisurely walk along the Songhees Walkway.”
Leo, re affordability chart specifically for condos; could affordability be improving more than the numbers actually show? The condo median/averages seems incredibly resilient while on the ground I am seeing more downward price pressure, but I get the feeling with the same amount of money people are just buying a better condo.
For example, a 1 year-old Bosa condo sold in Vic West recently for $995,000. It was purchased from Bosa for $1,199,900+GST so it dropped 250k+.
However, the sale itself would increase both the median and the average price.
Can’t say I am surprised, I am seeing listings go up with an asking price below that of the purchase price. Sellers not even trying to break even, example (see purchase price) -> https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/27174439/2306-galena-rd-sooke-broomhill
I don’t think current road construction is the root cause of Sooke traffic problems. I think the lack of serious road expansion(s) and new ongoing development is the actual issue.
Yes, if I am living in New York I would expect a lot more road construction/inconvenience versus living in Port Renfrew.
I doubt anyone in Oak Bay is feeling hammered either as they stroll down Willows beach, after having ridden their bike home from work versus spending 1.5 hrs each way in traffic.
Here is the reality, the traffic issues are starting to impact both the real estate and rental market in Sooke. I have a close friend that built a multi-plex in Sooke four years ago and for the first time last month he had a tough time renting out a unit that became vacant (for the same price as he started four years ago). Only five inquiries, two cancelled appointments ahead of time, two cancelled appointments in route as they got stuck in traffic and decided they didn’t want to deal with it so he was left with one person that actually came to view the unit.
If you are retired, sure, but anyone working that commute is just beyond crazy at this point, in my opinion. In the daily commute time to Sooke I can get a full workout the gym of my building, go for a swim in the pool afterwards, eat and go for a leisurely walk along the Songhees Walkway.
Also, the product with TD you can switch over to a fixed at any time without incurring fees and apparently the rates are very competitive if you want to do such at any point.
I have a renewal coming up in August and decide to gamble with a variable; prime – 1.0% with TD through the broker channel.
I get this feeling the economy is not so hot and it will start showing in the numbers soon.
Recently renewed on a 3 year fixed at under 5%. Big 5 lender, no broker. I was a little hesitant since inflation looks like it is finished, but I got burned on a variable rate last time around. I wouldn’t renew into a 5 year fixed though.
I see the same things too Trent. One doesn’t know the workings behind the algorithm these companies use. They’re kinda like ChatGPT. I like to see the data and analysis on how they came to the conclusion.
Some day in the future someone is going to take a big loss due to the algorithm. I want to see how the plaintiffs’ lawyer cross exams the Macintosh or PC on the stand.
Look into halal mortgages …No stress test, no down-payment.
Three different types…
Usury, punishable by hanging…
https://globalnews.ca/news/10443777/halal-mortgage-canada-explainer-budget-2024/
‘Mid month peak at downtown condo rentals. 53 one-bedrooms available at a average rent of $2,131 per month. The range is from $1,700 to $2,650 per month (excluding the high and low units)
The Yello on Yates is screwing up the data but it seems like the typical rental is up for lease between 10 to 14 days. 2.7 to 3.8% vacancy rate for downtown condos. That’s an acceptable vacancy rate range for a rental at full economic rent. Not low enough for rents to rise but not high enough for rents to decline.
Of course if you price your rental a little lower then you will have fewer turn overs and a lower vacancy rate.
The median price paid for a one-bedroom condo in the last 30 days is $507.000 and that’s a gross revenue multiplier of 20 at the average rental rate.
$25,572 x 20 +/- = $507,000
The typical sale is between 7 to 15 years old. Which is about the time that a landlord would have to do upgrades to the flooring, painting, and appliances which could cost around $25,000. A good reason to sell rather than make the repairs and re-rent.
//
did you happen to have access to look up per sqft for Yello? combined all unit mix…
it is still hitting $4+/sqft or its getting hammered into 3.85/sqft ? seen some appraisers are getting serious about their research around new downtown condo rent rate.
a few big lenders use this: https://zondaurban.com/nhslive
however, some lenders do not use appraisers inputs at all.. I have seen conflicting info around :
Property Management fee, Property Taxes, Maint./Groundskeeping, common area utilities, insurance, caretaker fees, admin and advertising fee, structure reserves for the same building( and some appraisal report do not use this at all)…
All those factors/variables come into play for a developer to max out their profit for the proposed Purpose built Rental… and yet, CMHC could use their own vacancy rate based on their own research (location based on 2.5KM radium of the project/building)… the bottom line is: the lender will pick a comfortable number to gauge the risk of over flooding inventory, general economics market condition, and labour supplies, population growth in each local market.
I am biased(due to lack of data set/ and lack of instant access to MLS) towards Victoria and Langford and Esquimalt as some deep pockets/developers are keep coming back towards those top three choices on their hitting list.
Greg, regarding fixed rates. I always find banks (and others) will provide a good rate to get you as a customer, keeping you is another story. My refinance offer with my existing FI was 6.79% – 5.64%, 1 and 5 year terms with other amounts in between. This was quoted in May for an August refinance. I’d like to stay with the current FI but I know there are much better rates out there, pretty sure under 5%. We’re working a with a Broker now, I’ll update if I see anything better.
Good news for Sooke. Construction is set to begin on a new 96 strata unit development in the village core at Sooke and Goodmere roads.
Mid month peak at downtown condo rentals. 53 one-bedrooms available at a average rent of $2,131 per month. The range is from $1,700 to $2,650 per month (excluding the high and low units)
The Yello on Yates is screwing up the data but it seems like the typical rental is up for lease between 10 to 14 days. 2.7 to 3.8% vacancy rate for downtown condos. That’s an acceptable vacancy rate range for a rental at full economic rent. Not low enough for rents to rise but not high enough for rents to decline.
Of course if you price your rental a little lower then you will have fewer turn overs and a lower vacancy rate.
The median price paid for a one-bedroom condo in the last 30 days is $507.000 and that’s a gross revenue multiplier of 20 at the average rental rate.
$25,572 x 20 +/- = $507,000
The typical sale is between 7 to 15 years old. Which is about the time that a landlord would have to do upgrades to the flooring, painting, and appliances which could cost around $25,000. A good reason to sell rather than make the repairs and re-rent.
What are folks seeing out there for mortgage rates – 3/5 yr fixed and variable? Renewal coming in November :(…
smdh
https://vicpd.ca/2024/07/16/vicpd-community-update-loaded-handgun-and-tasers-seized-by-patrol-officers/
Thank-you Deryk. And don’t tell anyone else on the blog, but I think Sooke has good up value for the future. I think you can see that too with some of the most beautiful water views on the southern tip of the island. Not many places where one can buy 80 or 100 acres of waterfront within 30 kilometers of a city the size of Victoria for under 4 million or watch the whales 20 feet from your seaside deck in Silver Spray.
But I’m sure there are some on the blog that are googling some place to show I’m wrong.
I’m not in favour of any foreigner ban. We can buy houses in USA, they should be able to buy here too.
Haha… “WhateverIwanttocallmyself”…. Yes..that does help:)
By the way, I totally respect your postings. Often the best.
Let’s face it…. in all of Canada….. the south west corner of BC has to be one of the loveliest places in Canada and we are blessed if we can call it home.
People obviously have different needs.
We love to go for drives into the hills around Sooke and it is so interesting to come across houses in the middle of nowhere in the woods. They enjoy the seclusion or the laid back feel where people believe in “Live and let live”. There is a feeling of independence.
I enjoy somewhere in between.
I like Sooke because of the community spirit. I like the fact that there are lots of young people with strollers. Lots of old buggers like myself at the hardware store picking up things for little projects.
I love working in my garden.
I was mistaken, however the ban was lifted on vacant land (see below) and can be developed by said foreigner. So how much of a ban is it really? This applies to any community and has no population restrictions.
No, it isn’t 100,000 it is populations> 10,000 and affects lots of cities/towns in BC and Canada.
Foreigners can’t buy in communities >10,000 people (Census Agglomeration or in a census metropolitan area (like greater Victoria) that is >100,000 . That ends up being most “residential” homes in cities and towns excluded to foreigners, So places like Sidney, Sooke, Duncan, Ladymith, Campbell River etc. are banned to foreigners, some “recreational” communities like Tofino or Whistler are OK
https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/professionals/housing-markets-data-and-research/housing-research/consultations/prohibition-purchase-residential-property-non-canadians-act
I believe foreigners can buy whatever they want in communities with populations less than 100,000. Check into it. So that ban is essentially B.S.
Foreigners are banned from buying homes in Canada until at least January 2027.
Good financial news for Canada, according to the IMF. A soft landing, no recession, and +GDP growth in 2024 and 2025. All of those are bullish for house prices.
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/canadas-economy-appears-achieved-soft-173700735.html
“Canada’s economy appears to have achieved soft landing, says IMF
Financial markets are betting that there is an almost certainty of a rate cut at BoC’s July 24 monetary policy announcement with 92% of bets favoring a cut.”
And Zach, while the condo is 2,200 square feet it doesn’t have the best water view in the complex. You would have to pony up closer to 3 million for the better view ones. And If it were downtown Victoria it would be 4.5 million.
Highest price paid for a downtown Victoria condo was 10.8 million back in 2018 for 4,400 square feet in the Customs House. Makes what Canada paid for a condo for the Consul General to live in Manhattan look like a deal.
Of the 19 sales in the last 30 days in Sooke, 9 were in the Broomhill, Sooke Village, and John Muir neighborhoods. That’s a 1.5 kilometer radius of each other. And there are currently 59 homes for sale in that area today. So depending on where you live you will have a different experience. I like Sooke too. My daughter and I were down at the beach two months ago. It’s very pretty and peaceful place to live. She would like to live there some day. Does that help you Deryk.
median asking price $944,900
median sale price $795,000
I have to say that I was a bit surprised to hear that Sooke real estate is “getting hammered”.
The reason I am surprised is that a house down the street just sold after being on the market for about one month…… which to me sounds fairly reasonable. Then there was a house at the corner, a new build…. it sold very quickly a few short months ago.
I see another just up the block which has also just came up for sale. I’ll let you know when it sells.
What I do observe is that some house stay on the market for what seems like forever. They are clearly overpriced.
The house my daughter bought three months ago had sat for several months. The house maintenance had been neglected. It looked shabby. The house was overpriced.. (The real estate agent didn’t know that the property had 400 amps service. He had told us that it had 200 amps total to the property. I had asked him to confirm with the owners and with Hydro and he never came back to is us with an answer. .
We had our own electrician check all the wiring as part of our inspection …… and guess what……….the electrician confirmed that the house, and a relatively new, 40feet by 30feet workshop, did indeed have a total of 400 amps.
After a lot of haggling back and forth, she was able to talk the sellers down to a very reasonable and fair price, based on the idea that the house had been neglected.
Three months later, and a lot of hard elbow grease and a ((lot))) of minor repairs, it looks like a gem.
The ones priced in the range of previous sales seem to move quickly.
As far as the traffic in Sooke is concerned, it is true that it is often terrible right now at evening rush hour.
There is major construction on some roads in an important area where people often turning off and this should be completed by late Oct/November.
To keep that in perspective, I have a friend in Vancouver who has had heavy construction on his street for three years now, with major issues coming and going for access and parking. I’m sure others have similar stories.
Things are generally just fine in Sooke. And yes…. BC Highways also needs to do better job planning on the roads.
We bought here 5 years ago now and we absolutely love it here. Five years is nothing and our place has increased in value much more than we ever had imagined. (Yes……. we put that down to just luck)
I certainly don’t feel “Hammered”. Same with the people who just bought the house up the street.
We go down to our beaches and we sit and look up and down the beach…. and for the most part, we have the place to ourselves.
I’m sorry, did I just read that?
Personally, a “staggering price” is exactly how I would describe a $2.3 million condo listed in a tiny town on a sparsely populated, economically insignificant island at the edge of the continent.
It seems that every town on this island sells properties at luxury prices aimed at the internationally wealthy.
Welcome to AI. My dentist takes 4 pictures of my tooth then sends it off to the cnc machine in the room next door. while the machine is milling up my brand new crown, he then moves forward removing the bulk of my old tooth in preparation for the new crown, mixes up a little epoxy, then installs the brand new crown, all in less than 1.5 hours.
Heat warning in Calgary. Second one already this summer. 30+ temps for the next 7-9 days. Crazy.
Toronto is flooded…
Whatever, agreed and at what price are they at break-even or worse loosing $? Sitting on a property for many months, maybe they’re already there?
Westerly, lower the prices and they will sell. But how low before they nail the price?
Whatever, Sooke is not getting hammered, they just have high hopes – too high. Traffic issues aside (which I expect that to resolve in a year or three), I wouldn’t pay in excess of $1.3 Million for a spec build in Sooke. Semi-custom plus sure, but what’s sitting out there is not near semi-custom. Look around Sunriver, there are a few new builds that would sell in seconds for the price in Westshore. Nice properties, but spec in Sooke for $1.3 or $1.4 million, not so much.
But it is only 20% reduction in price. Another 10% to go before it sells.
Whew, it’s sure hot in the interior. There’s a lot to be said for our summers
Whatever, it’s called supply and demand
3255 Norfolk Rd has been trying to sell since September last year. It’s dropped $1.5m so far. Makes me wonder what the record is for miss-pricing. They’ve relisted 3 times at $5.9m. Maybe take a hint?
Sooke is getting hammered as there is 10 months of house inventory. 192 listings
Only one condo and 4 town house sales in the last 30 days. 46 listed
Salt Spring isn’t doing much better with only 11 sales and 91 listings.
These areas are in our backyard folks. An interest rate drop won’t come too soon for these people.
Bobby K, Is it the same reason why houses in the seaside community of South Surrey/White Rock are higher at $1,973,000 than Oak Bay? (Fraser Valley Real Estate Board June 2024)
If you are going to piss on someone else’s community, look up first to see who’s pissing down on you.
On BNN-“Market housing will never deliver affordable housing “. That’s the reality, stop fooling yourselves.
“It’s like Oak Bay but without the staggering prices.”
lol, sure, you also forgot the noise of airplanes flying overhead, very little services (hospital emergency closed overnight from 10pm to 7am) , no golf course within 20km it has the feel of Qualicum Beach and not in a good way. There’s a reason prices are much lower out there.
Okay, I thought about it. CMHC has an automated valuation model known as EMILI. I knew one of the persons that was instrumental in its development – a local Victoria boy. The way he described how it worked to me is that the real estate isn’t as important as the person’s ability to make the payments. The emphasis is on the ability to make the payments and while the collateral backing the mortgage is important it is secondary to the ability to pay.
Most first time buyers of condos will go for high ratio financing. So it’s their income and not the property that is foremost. And since most first time buyers have a similar income there is a range limit to what the purchaser can pay for a condo. Depending on which metropolitan area they live their income will be different.
So Nanaimo and Duncan should have lower prices for a typical condo than the metropolitan area of Victoria.
Actually Patriotz, I was thinking along those lines when I wrote the comment. Not Toronto of course, but relative to the other parts of Greater Victoria. Condo prices for the typical condo are not that much different.
We’ve all heard the mantra of location, location, location. Should there not be a more profound price difference between a Victoria City, Langford, and a Sidney condo?
Things that make you go hmmmmm.
Pretty staggering for a village that far from a city that isn’t all that big itself. $600K gets you this is in an upscale neighbourhood of Toronto.
https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/27153581/906-135-marlee-avenue-toronto-w04-briar-hill-belgravia
I wouldn’t associate “class” with income. Trump might be wealthy, but I wouldn’t leave my daughter alone in a room with him.
Yep upper and lower class renter , will be the new norm in Canada
It has been so long since we’ve seen continuous interest rate cuts it’s not a slam dunk on what impact a quarter point will have on prices. Prospective purchasers might think that this is just the beginning of rate cuts and hold off on purchasing. But we don’t know.
I would be watching the vacancy and unemployment rates to see which direction they are trending.
The new PBRs are likely to appeal to the high income earners that are less interested in owning. They want the lifestyle of living in a new building, but not the problems with home ownership. The young professional or empty nester couple earning 200K a year. As such they won’t help with affordability, for most renters, for several years.
But how large is that target market for rentals? We don’t know. But I doubt that it is limitless. It could be a boutique market that could be saturated in the next couple of years as more PBRs come onto the market.
But for now, it is good times for shareholders that have invested in PBRs.
The City by the Sea (Sidney) is always forgotten on this site. I find it to be a very nice retirement community. Where it is still possible to buy an older updated two-bedroom condo for $410,000 or spend 2.3 million for a stunning ocean view condo in a hi-rise. It’s like Oak Bay but without the staggering prices.
Median price for a condo is around $600,000 which will buy a circa 1997, 965 square feet two-bedroom.
Median price for house is around the million dollar mark, but you can pay upwards of 4 million for a home on waterfront.
More supply = less affordability now? TIL…
Yep , bring on the rate cuts , who knows maybe 50 points would help everyone’s spirits . Lower for longer
This’ll brighten Thursty’s Tuesday:
Canada’s cooling June inflation makes rate cut next week increasingly likely
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/canadas-annual-inflation-rate-eases-123224598.html?guccounter=1
New PBRs are a strange one. The data doesn’t yet exist to determine what kind of an effect they are having on the secondary rental market or on home sales.
They must be drawing off some of the downtown condo rentals even at the PBRs published higher rental rates or they may drawing away renters from the slightly older PBRs such as the Reunion in Langford or Ravenline in Esquimalt.
The gimmick of a free 13th month might be having an effect to get renters to switch buildings. But come rent renewal with a 4 percent increase that could back fire on them.
Unlike home owners that can chose not to rent out their basement suites, a PBR is responsible to its shareholders to maximize rental income. They can’t keep suites vacant over the long term.
At this time, I doubt we will get an answer for several years. But definitely continuing government incentives to build more PBRs are still needed. The more Canada invests in PBRs the more control Canada will have over inflation.
Negative economic sentiment. Job market is much more challenging now, especially for the higher paying white collar jobs.
Are we doing that? Investors are not buying. I think what we get to is a transition to owner-occupier for the most part. There are some new-build rentals coming, but they are going to be high priced. End result is fewer affordable rentals most likely.