Jobs friday and the state of the deferral cliff

This post is 4 years old. The data and my views may have since evolved.

Jobs numbers are in for September, and it was a nice bump in employment accross the country, with BC gaining 55,000 jobs from August, and Victoria up 2600 jobs from August in the 3 month average.  On a year over year basis, the big winners are health (all those contact tracers) and technology, while big losers are still food, accommodation, and tourism.  The unemployment rate is down to 9.1% (3 month average) in Victoria, down from an estimated peak of about 18% in April.

It’s obvious that the stability of the recovery depends entirely on our ability to keep controlling the COVID case numbers.   Ontario is backtracking on their economic opening by shutting down all sorts of indoor activities like dining, gyms, and movie theatres.   Right now we are hovering on a fairly flat trend in BC but it’s a delicate balance.  Just a few unlucky gatherings and that could explode and lead to more restrictions and the associated jobs losses.  It’s going to be a winter of tightrope walking.

We’ve also got some new numbers on the deferral cliff that CMHC is concerned about.   As of the end of August, here are the percentage of CMHC insured loans still in deferral.

BC is doing a lot better than the catastrophic situation in Alberta, but 4th highest is nothing to write home about either.  However I wouldn’t read too much into these numbers just yet.   CMHC CEO Evan Siddall stated that these are the percentages in deferral as of the end of August.  Most deferrals are for 6 months, and the virus didn’t really hit until mid March and into April, so I believe most deferrals by the end of August still had 2-4 weeks left before they expired.    Much more telling will be the numbers at the end of September and October, which should be much lower but represent the really serious cases where owners could not resume paying their mortgages and are at risk of having to sell or go into foreclosure.

Back in June I estimated how many Victoria owners may be in trouble based on employment statistics at the time, and concluded up to 13,000 Victoria owners with a mortgage could have lost their jobs at the peak in April.    Redoing the math based on current jobs data, the estimate for the number of households with a mortgage currently unemployed drops to 6200.   Those are mostly in industries that are likely to remain depressed for many months or even years, so that could represent serious trouble.

However, so far there is no sign of increased distressed selling in the market.   If there are substantial home owners in trouble out there, they are seemingly managing so far with the help of income supports that have been effectively extended until next year.   New listings are down to only marginally above last year’s levels, while sales continue to stay high.  Even the formerly weak condo market has tightened substantially in the last week with a surge in sales.

Sales should be decreasing very soon, but it’s obvious that market activity has blown through estimates of pent up demand and sales are still high.   The market, although  artificially inflated on the back of unprecedented government spending, continues to humble any attempt at forecasting.  We’ll just have to wait and see.

70 Comments
Newest
Oldest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
rush4life
rush4life
October 15, 2020 1:03 pm

Just saw on twitter that the Bank of Canada will be discontinuing its purchase of Canada Mortgage Bonds as of Oct 26, 2020. https://www.bankofcanada.ca/2020/10/bank-canada-announces-changes-programs-support-key-financial-markets/
Presumably banks will tighten lending if they haven’t started already.

That being said the BoC says “The Bank remains committed to providing liquidity as required to support the functioning of the Canadian financial system. Any discontinued facilities can be restarted if necessary.”

Barrister
Barrister
October 15, 2020 9:47 am

The graft graph would be interesting.

alexandracdn
alexandracdn
October 15, 2020 9:44 am

Yikes…….I meant graph not graft

alexandracdn
alexandracdn
October 15, 2020 9:40 am

Re: Victoria Employment in Selective Sectors

I would like to see a secondary graft of % of “employees” in
a. Federal Government Employees
b. Provincial Government Employees
c. Municipal Government Employees
d. Crown Corp. Employees
e. RCMP employees
f. Military members

g. everybody else left in health, social services, public administration etc. that isn’t in this group.

patriotz
patriotz
October 15, 2020 6:47 am

Not quite.

You must have and maintain a minimum equity of 25% (or 15% with children) of the property’s assessed value. (accounting for all debts and deferred taxes, and lines of credit whether used or not).

This means that those most likely to be in trouble may be least likely to qualify.

Kenny G
Kenny G
October 14, 2020 6:30 pm

“To qualify for the BC Tax Deferral Program, homeowners in British Columbia must be at least 55 years of age.”

Or anyone with children under 16. So basically most households can defer their taxes

rush4life
rush4life
October 14, 2020 1:12 pm

Province covers it:

“To qualify for the BC Tax Deferral Program, homeowners in British Columbia must be at least 55 years of age. The province will pay, on your behalf to the municipality, part or all of your residential or farm property taxes. Interest rates are calculated every six months and range from 1% with the regular program to 3% for families with children. You can repay the loan at any time. If you think you might want to take advantage of the deferral program in the future, keep your account open with a balance of at least $25.” – https://www.federalretirees.ca/en/my-money/financial-information-tools/property-tax-deferral

Introvert
Introvert
October 14, 2020 1:00 pm
totoro
totoro
October 14, 2020 12:53 pm

It will be interesting to see what happens with property tax rates next year given that more people are deferring property taxes and only 1/3 of municipal revenue comes from taxes. The City of Vancouver has already laid off 1500 employees. The City of Victoria is facing a 17.5 million dollar budget shortfall due to covid effects:

… staff estimate between $8 million to $12.8 million in lost parking revenue this year and as much as $2.5 million in lost revenue from the conference centre. They also estimate $1.1 million in lost lease revenues and $250,000 in lost revenue from ticket sales at the Save on Foods Memorial Arena.

patriotz
patriotz
October 14, 2020 10:48 am

With the massive hole in municipal budgets due to plummeting tax base, it wouldn’t be a surprise to start seeing layoffs here.

I don’t think the tax base is plummeting. In any case, municipal property tax revenues don’t depend on the assessment base. They decide how much they want to spend, and set the mill rate to raise the required amount of money from the given assessment base.

Sideliner
Sideliner
October 14, 2020 10:46 am

August @CMHC_ca deferrals by select major cities

Ouch, looks not great.

Alberta considering cutting 11,000 health related jobs. Public sector employment not looking quite as bombproof now. With the massive hole in municipal budgets due to plummeting tax base, it wouldn’t be a surprise to start seeing layoffs here.

I went downtown yesterday and was pretty shocked to see how many restaurants and small businesses have already closed. Around the Hudson at Douglas and Fisgard, it looked like about 50% had closed. The Victoria Public Market used to be bustling at lunchtime, now lots of the vendors have closed and minimal foot traffic. It was also the first time I saw someone wearing a bullet-proof vest (a street person). Less and less reasons to live near the core.

James Soper
James Soper
October 14, 2020 10:11 am

“Prices right now are rising at an uncomfortable rate,” said Phil Soper, president of Royal LePage, adding that growth will slow this winter after summer’s post-lockdown boom. “The economy and the social data in Canada right now is not boom time.”

Never thought I’d see the day. 2020, you are special.

Barrister
Barrister
October 14, 2020 8:36 am

Be careful Introvert, the cliff could give way.

Introvert
Introvert
October 14, 2020 8:12 am

Thinking about driving up to the deferral cliff to check out the view. Anyone wanna come along?

CS
CS
October 13, 2020 2:57 pm

Hi I have a general question and was advised theres a lot of knowledgeable folks here.
I’ve been trying to find recent sales data. (i.e. x house sold for x amount, rather then statistical averages). I know BC assessment shows amounts but seems to have 3+ month lag, looking for something more current.

Does anyone know if a database like this exists for Victoria?

totoro
totoro
October 13, 2020 12:50 pm

I should run the numbers and publish an article on this.

That would be great. Many people looking to move from oil.

Introvert
Introvert
October 13, 2020 12:06 pm

comment image

Introvert
Introvert
October 13, 2020 11:32 am

comment image

tinyurl.com/y2hocbkz

nan
nan
October 13, 2020 11:10 am

“Critics of the declaration believe the proposed strategy is dangerous and unworkable, asserting that it would be impossible to shield those who are medically vulnerable, and that the herd immunity component of the strategy is undermined by the limited duration of post-infection immunity.”

As opposed to how easy it is to run a global economy while efficiently feeding and clothing almost 8 billion people in an environment that violates almost every human social behavior that has evolved over the last 10,000 years.

Ash
Ash
October 13, 2020 10:41 am

Not sure if this is widely known, but the province just doubled several home energy rebates, including $6k (up from $3k) to convert from a fossil fuel furnace to a central air heat pump. Also, in April, the City of Victoria began providing $2k back. CRD kicks in another $350 I believe. So all told if you’re in the CoV you’re getting over 8K in rebates for a central air heat pump! Well, until the $ runs out that is.

Barrister
Barrister
October 13, 2020 10:31 am

Talk about a hot market in the middle of Covid.

Frank
Frank
October 13, 2020 10:26 am

Barrister- welcome to the world of oppression. I’m not going to elaborate, it would fill a book.

Barrister
Barrister
October 13, 2020 9:11 am

Can not speak for anyone else but I am really ready for Covid to be finished. Maybe it is the rain and overcast skies but my ability to be cheerful seems to have just faded almost overnight. Am I the only one feeling this?

Barrister
Barrister
October 12, 2020 5:40 pm

I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving weekend. While these are particularly trying times for many people most of us do have a lot to be grateful for living on this beautiful island.

Grant
Grant
October 12, 2020 11:29 am

Leo – generally we are not waiting for Phase 3 trial results prior to producing a vaccine. Gates and co are investing large sums of money in production capability for some of the more promising (7) vaccine candidates knowing full well that some may not be approved and that money is down the drain.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/bill-gates-7-potential-coronavirus-vaccines

Frank
Frank
October 12, 2020 4:49 am

Marko- I think most people, at least the ones I’ve talked too, are not anxious to rush out and get the vaccine the first day it is offered. I’ve even heard that front line workers such as nurses, are reluctant to get it because they are aware of the potential for a negative reaction to it. Our medical system will probably administer the vaccine to elderly people first, especially in care homes and the people caring for them. Hopefully this goes well as there is the potential for a negative reaction in some people resulting in their demise. Ask yourself if you would let your elderly parent get the vaccine. If they are in a care home they may not have a choice. Like all medications, negative side effects can be expected. Vaccines are not infallible. I’m 65 and very healthy, and probably will not get the vaccine unless it is mandatory.

James Soper
James Soper
October 11, 2020 10:11 pm

Is an effective vaccine even some sort of guarantee written in stone?

Weren’t you a nurse Marko? Why are you asking this on a message board?

James Soper
James Soper
October 11, 2020 10:09 pm

COVID fatality rate as per CDC currently stands at:
-0.003% for 0-19 year olds
-0.02% for 20-49 year olds
-0.5% for 50-69 year olds
->5% for <70 year olds (but remember this group includes very sick/frail and many in care homes with short life expectancy

.5% is not a small amount.

Introvert
Introvert
October 11, 2020 7:15 pm

comment image

totoro
totoro
October 11, 2020 5:29 pm

Let’s keep deluding ourselves though.

Well, someone here clearly is, and able to maintain a contrary viewpoint in the face an overwhelming amount of peer reviewed science-based research.

At the very least, now that we are nine months into this in Canada our health officials have had the chance to get the advice they need to make reasonable recommendations. Hopefully most people not interested in reading the peer-reviewed literature are going to follow public health guidelines rather than an armchair internet stranger armed with a dated WHO document, a commentary not reviewed by peers, and economists in the US who are against the economic impacts of shutting down.

LongTermBull
LongTermBull
October 11, 2020 3:30 pm

This is my last COVID post as I realize this is a housing website.

I encourage everyone to watch this video where several notable public health experts question the approaches many countries have taken. We should have had a balanced approach from the beginning. I hope we never lock down again & we allow some degree of normal life to resume:

https://youtu.be/jtiInz1DWuA

Yes, Barrister, you are completely right. The ONLY goal should be to prevent hospital overwhelm. Rise in cases or even a temporary spike in mortality must not cause panic & a second lockdown. I also want to point out that the initial models (imperial, etc) extremely over-estimated the mortality numbers and caused immense collateral damage from the resulting lockdowns.

Barrister
Barrister
October 11, 2020 2:25 pm

I thought that the original idea back in the spring was to flatten the curve to prevent hospitals from being swamped and overwhelmed. BC. whether by luck or by design, has pretty well managed to flatten the curve, in spite of fluctuations, if the measure for success is preventing the hospital system from being overwhelmed.

Most of the economy is up and functioning with the notable exceptions of tourism and restaurants.

LongTermBull
LongTermBull
October 11, 2020 2:16 pm

Sorry Leo, but no strong evidence that any of these measures work.

Contact tracing:
https://inference-review.com/article/on-the-futility-of-contact-tracing

Masks:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-bQve-xvNnXBpyASzTfSKW4SLzYHz1_p/view
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNI2ocgosgA&feature=youtu.be

Let’s keep deluding ourselves though.

Frank
Frank
October 11, 2020 2:15 pm

Here’s the problem with vaccines. They do not give you immunity, they only stimulate your immune system to produce specific antibodies to attack the virus when a person is exposed to it. If that person has a weakened immune system to begin with, the vaccine is not as effective and the person remains vulnerable. There is no magic bullet when it comes to vaccines. I suggest reading the chapters on the Immune System and the Reticulo-endothelial system in Guyton’s Medical Physiology for an explanation of how this miraculous system works when it is healthy.

patriotz
patriotz
October 11, 2020 1:19 pm

What Leo said. And:

Protect the vulnerable, while letting the rest of us live our lives

Even if you could identify the vulnerable with sufficient accuracy (you can’t), it’s not possible to segregate all of them from society. And a big chunk of the most vulnerable were already segregated in LTC – how did that work out?

Marko Juras
October 11, 2020 1:07 pm

Protect the vulnerable, while letting the rest of us live our lives. We can design a more targeted and balanced approach. COVID is NOT the only public health threat in Canada.

Even WHO is discouraging lockdowns now.

LongTermBull
LongTermBull
October 11, 2020 12:54 pm

Lockdowns, school closures, and other draconian measures will cause massive collateral damage. We have lost our collective minds and have bought into hysteria. COVID fatality rate as per CDC currently stands at:
-0.003% for 0-19 year olds
-0.02% for 20-49 year olds
-0.5% for 50-69 year olds
->5% for <70 year olds (but remember this group includes very sick/frail and many in care homes with short life expectancy)

Protect the vulnerable, while letting the rest of us live our lives. We can design a more targeted and balanced approach. COVID is NOT the only public health threat in Canada.

Please listen to these credible individuals:
https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/3-14-covid-19-dr-john-ioannidis-trial-eligibility-dr/id1429998903?i=1000493413913

https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/3-13-covid-19-schools-covid-19-scott-atlas-covid-19/id1429998903?i=1000492442911

Marko Juras
October 11, 2020 12:47 pm

Is an effective vaccine even some sort of guarantee written in stone?

Introvert
Introvert
October 11, 2020 10:15 am

Not a chance by end of this year. The leading vaccine candidates are only planning to publish their Phase 3 results by end of the year. So best case production starts in 2021, no widespread availability until mid/late 2021.

Then factor in that the vaccine probably won’t be as bulletproof effective as the ones science arrives at after 20 or 30 years of study.

Then factor in that some large percentage of the population will delay taking the vaccine (out of caution over potential unintended consequences associated with rushing the vaccine’s trials and approval).

Then factor in that another large percentage will choose not to take the vaccine ever.

Frank.the.tank
Frank.the.tank
October 11, 2020 7:59 am

Experts are projecting the distribution of a vaccine here in Canada possibly by the end of this year, certainly by early 2021. Not everyone needs to be vaccinated either – herd immunity is accomplished when only a percentage of the population receive it. There’s light at the end of the tunnel – hang on for a few months longer, especially with the knowledge that most of the world has it much tougher than we do 🙂

Barrister
Barrister
October 11, 2020 6:32 am

Thanks for the kind thoughts Frank. I dont even go into Home Depot, order on line and have them deliver it to the trunk of my car. People wearing masks is disconcerting, people not wearing masks is absolutely frightening.

Frank
Frank
October 11, 2020 6:04 am

Barrister- You’re not alone. I find dealing with people in masks disconcerting. Also, my gym, a city facility, was a large part of my social interaction with a large number of people. Even after reopening, there are usually 10 or fewer people at any time. The workout area can facilitate 80 people under current restrictions. Lack of other forms of entertainment is also isolating, you can only go to Home Depot so many times. Hang in there.

Barrister
Barrister
October 11, 2020 5:10 am

I am finding that Covid is actually starting to affect my moral a bit. perhaps more than a bit. While I am not the most social of people it was nice to occasional pop out to a pub. There are moments when one almost feels like one is just sitting around waiting for the world to end. Being in the highly vulnerable category there is a real number of restrictions that reduces your world. Some of that just comes with age anyways but covet has stripped a lot of the simple pleasure like cards with friends.

Barrister
Barrister
October 10, 2020 9:33 pm

Deryk: That is great to hear and it sounds like you are building a small paradise out there and having fun doing it.

Deryk Houston
Deryk Houston
October 10, 2020 2:39 pm

Hi Barrister, Thanks for asking. We absolutely love our place out here in Sooke. We are semi retired in some ways although being artists we will never actually stop doing what we love. I market my work around the world. ( Just sold a piece to a collector in Ireland for example). I also sell my work at a gallery in Vancouver. (Artworks)
Sooke is a lovely community and it is close enough to Victoria that we can zoom in there to get anything that we need. (Our Electric vehicle costs us about $2.00 in electricity for the return trip. Cheaper than the bus:)
Everyone has different needs and for us….Sooke is perfect. The air is super clean. Lot’s of hiking trails to lakes etc. Interesting little micro brewery’s and honey places tucked away up in the hills. Lighthouses. Lot’s of work to do in the garden. Lot’s of artists live out here. No pulp mills. Amazing sunsets.
We will be creating a little art gallery on the lower level of our house one day when this pandemic is over. In the meantime we are getting it ready and adding more and more things to the garden for people to enjoy and explore while they make a day of it.

Marko Juras
October 10, 2020 11:38 am

Ha ha I wonder how long that will last….doubt BC can stay in a bubble of low cases #s for too long.

Barrister
Barrister
October 10, 2020 11:28 am

I think that Chris summed it up well,

Chris
Chris
October 10, 2020 10:26 am

.

Grant
Grant
October 10, 2020 8:27 am

A surprisingly busy time out in the market – with Marko and his team’s assistance (who are getting run off their feet with all the activity) we are condo shopping for rental/family purposes, we originally were looking downtown but the pickings are slim. We’ve got our eye on a couple units in the same building in Saanich but some listing agents are holding a few days on accepting offers, looking to drive bidding wars, which I’m not keen on participating in. Such a truly bizarre time!

Barrister
Barrister
October 10, 2020 8:03 am

Deryk, how are you enjoying your new place?

Deryk Houston
Deryk Houston
October 10, 2020 7:45 am

Barrister’s pattern is likely a fair representation of where a lot of people are at in terms of eating at restaurants and general shopping.
It must be so difficult for many businesses. So much to worry about for people who have any business or are trying to feed their families with a regular job.
“The Big Short” movie and the “99 Homes” movie …… watch them to refresh your memory of how things can change, and see how you feel.

I’ve never been so unsure about which way the wind will blow.
Time to hunker down in every way I think…… and people might want to be extra focused on maintaining the ability to hang on long term during what could be an unusual and complicated ride ahead.
Quote from “99 Homes” movie: “Do you think America gives a flying rats ass about you or me? America doesn’t bail out the losers. America was built by bailing out winners by rigging a nation Of the winners, For the winners, By the winners”.

Barrister
Barrister
October 10, 2020 6:07 am

I suspect that Covid will be around until at least 2023 in terms of its impact at least. It is near impossible to predict how these things are going to go but I suspect that we are looking at some long term changes in industries like entertainment and hospitality.

I am listening to the rain and thinking that outdoor dining is about to become a lot less appealing. On the other hand do I really care if restaurants close down. I stopped to think about my shopping needs recently and realized that I buy either online or either Cosco or Walmart for my clothing. So if half the stores downtown disappear do I really care and the answer is that I personally dont. I used to eat out about three times a week but I am unlikely to go back to it. While I am the exception rather than the rule one has to wonder to what degree work from home and other shifts will continue years after the plague.

Tomato
Tomato
October 9, 2020 7:41 pm

Was talking to BDC and they said 90% of their commercial book is in deferral right now.