Taxation without representation

is tyranny.   But what about taxation with excessive representation?  After all with 13 municipalities and the CRD we can’t argue there isn’t enough representation going on here, but how much is it all costing us in taxes?   Thanks to open data initiatives, we can see which municipalities have kept a lid on tax increases and which ones have let loose the dogs of bureaucracy.

Assuming you lived in a representative house in each of the municipalities from 2006 to 2016, how much would your taxes have increased?

The winner by a mile is North Saanich where taxes haven’t even kept up with inflation.  Of the core municipalities, Esquimalt has done the best job keeping tax increases moderate while the big loser is Saanich with a 56% jump in 10 years.   All of them hiked taxes and fees much faster than inflation over the last decade.

Here are the 2016 values for all the municipalities.

MunicipalitiesTax Rate ($/$1000 value)Representative House ValueResidential Taxes
Central Saanich6.4821$563,548$4,376
Colwood6.7903$471,039$3,418
Esquimalt7.8249$499,924$3,912
Highlands6.1517$607,913$3,740
Langford5.9665$445,337$2,657
Metchosin5.3625$544,041$2,917
North Saanich4.6147$751,568$4,077
Oak Bay6.0601$948,491$6,918
Saanich6.4072$624,581$5,125
Sidney5.9956$493,209$3,826
Sooke6.9408$359,913$3,436
Victoria6.8297$595,222$5,012
View Royal5.8309$547,538$3,512

And it’s Monday, so here’s the weekly numbers courtesy of the VREB.

April 2017
Apr
 2016
Wk 1 Wk 2 Wk 3 Wk 4
Unconditional Sales 255 464 650
1286
New Listings 419 681 974
1590
Active Listings 1661 1652 1724
2594
Sales to New Listings  61% 68% 67%
81%
Sales Projection 990 875 887
Months of Inventory

2.0

Significantly lower sales/list ratio for the second month in a row.   However 67% is still high compared to normal years (April 2015 was 59% and April 2014 was 44%).

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213 thoughts on “Taxation without representation

  1. Hit the two open houses on Maquinna today. Was there for about twenty minutes and there was only one couple that passed through while I was there. The agent was saying that they are seeing more buyers from Ontario; anyone else seeing this?

  2. Two young kids and two cats on top is a hard sell for finding a suit in a house. You really cannot expect kids to be quiet. Well, I wish him luck but it might mean a move out to Langford.

  3. I’m glad to hear thing are looking for tech sector 🙂 I know lots of rockstar software geniuses but they unfortunately all have jobs! Do you use viatec to post sidekick?

  4. “Sure dude, more like 900 a week. Anyone making that per hour wouldn’t waste their life playing Gangford slumlord.”

    or being an internet troll

  5. I was the original drummer for Cheap Trick, are you sure you could use me for programming though?

  6. 6 new postings to viatec today. I’ve chatted with a few of the bigger tech players in town and they have trouble finding and retaining talent (partly due to brain drain). I’m looking to fill a software position right now (any rock stars on the board) 😉

  7. I’m writing a full analysis of the CMHC report. It’s full of holes as usual.

    That’s too bad, Leo. But I think you’re a little hard on yourself. Your analyses are generally great. 😛 😛

  8. @Leo
    We are doing an APP that links to our ERP for warehouse control/inventory fulfillment for my company. We had some surprising quotes broken down by hour (based on 50 man-weeks) for the development costs:
    India: $75USD/hour small development team
    India: $165 USD/hour large development team
    China: $95 USD/hour small development team
    China: $185 USD/hour large development team
    Canada (Vic): $130 CDN/hour 4 man team
    USA (Midwest): $285 USD/hour large development team
    We went with the Victoria Team/Chinese Team combo. Canada does all the programming and backend + project management, the Chinese end puts on a language interface.

    @Luke
    Just purchased some non-toxic fertiliser for my hedge to make it grow a little faster and taller.

  9. I’m writing a full analysis of the CMHC report. It’s full of holes as usual. Probably won’t be published until next week though.

  10. I just don’t personally see the tech industry expanding like everyone here seems to think

    In my real job I talk to a lot of tech companies about their hiring plans. They are definitely expanding right now. Lots of people planning to grow substantially over the next couple years. Doesn’t mean it justifies the prices, but tech is a big deal here, and will continue to grow.

    Way lower wages in Vic and not many interesting companies compared to van.

    True. Although a few years back one of my software developers was making $65k working in my team. Left for a job paying $80k in Vancouver. Considering cost of living that was a pay cut.

    I wonder what bearkilla does to make almost 2 million per year in tech?

    Professional bullshitter. Pays well.

    There seem to be a few engineers on here. Love of numbers?

    Guilty.

  11. The jobs do get filled for sure. I just don’t personally see the tech industry expanding like everyone here seems to think. Its just another hhv myth to justify house prices. I’m of the loop though as I took a govt job recently so am not an expert on all the new startup and goings on in tech in Victoria. Just based on what I hear from friends they are not making huge salaries and getting tons of job offers. Tech companies can be so volatile too. Scary situation when things are going well and maybe someone buys an expensive house and the economy tanks and they have to move to find work… But that could never happen here right?

    I know when I was looking for work out of engineering school many of my classmates had to move out of town to get decent work. Way lower wages in Vic and not many interesting companies compared to van. I wonder what bearkilla does to make almost 2 million per year in tech? Maybe he’s an inventor…

    There seem to be a few engineers on here. Love of numbers?

  12. Yes it’s interesting – maybe the tech jobs get filled fast in Victoria. eg., BCTIA says there are 90,000 tech employees in BC, and 1250 vacancies in Metro Van, which is around 1.4%. Their web site says there are 97 jobs available in Victoria, so that’s 1% of total. Seems relatively comparable to Van, given that Metro Van has quite a few suburbs with tech, whereas Greater Victoria really only has downtown, Saanich, & Sidney.

  13. Oh I just looked through the job descriptions and then saw at the bottom 25 full time jobs. Maybe some aren’t tagged though but I don’t care enough to check them all haha. Either way there aren’t any I will be applying for!

  14. “Barrister I work in tech and I make over $900 and that would be by the hour.”

    Sure dude, more like 900 a week. Anyone making that per hour wouldn’t waste their life playing Gangford slumlord.

  15. Penguin, just wondering where you see 25 jobs – it seems there are 89? (which still isn’t huge but still more than 2 dozen 🙂 )

  16. I think someone here was asking how much 3381 Veteran St sold for: $984,000. Bedrooms are very, very small.

  17. That viatec job board is looking pretty sad! Don’t see how 25 jobs on a job board is a booming tech industry lol! And not many engineering jobs… I am in tech and make beakillas fake wage / 20.

  18. Bearkilla
    April 26, 2017 at 6:37 pm
    Barrister I work in tech and I make over $900 and that would be by the hour.

    Damn! I only make a tiny fraction of that—but then again, I’m low tech. It’s just me and my sewing machine. No more bragging rights for me.

  19. Barrister, for some good info on the tech industry in Victoria, check out Viatec:
    https://www.viatec.ca/cpages/home

    Especially their economic impact study:
    https://viatec.silkstart.com/articles/download-2014-greater-victoria-technology-sector-economic-impact-study

    Some companies look at industry-standard salary surveys of Vancouver and make adjustments according to cost of living. If they’re hiring salespeople that are responsible for US or International markets, they’ll compare with salaries in those areas too. Every company is probably different but they come up with salary models that might be based 25th or 50th or 75th percentile of the standard surveys, whatever can be justified based on company budget, company size, & talent they’re trying to attract.

  20. Local Fool on HCG and other lenders: “I don’t think this is something that people should be dismissing”

    I mentioned the problematic mortgage stocks awhile back and everybody just glazed it over. People are only taking notice now that it’s on TV. It was evident before but apparently some just shrug it off because they’re real estate centric. This is an example of how people beat real estate ROI with the stock market: shorting mortgage lenders in the last month!

  21. I keep reading about the tech companies here in Victoria but I am wondering exactly how many jobs do they provide. Also what sort of salaries do they pay. Basically, do these jobs provide enough income to justify the rise in prices?

  22. One of the neighbours was saying that his house insurance went up dramatically after getting a tenant in the basement suite. Has anyone else experienced that. By the way if you dont inform your insurer of the fact that you have a basement suite your house insurance might very well be void. What experience has everyone had with insurance?

  23. @oppswediditagain

    Thanks for posting. I think those are great thoughts; I especially liked your mention of your own experience in the 1980s. Too young to remember that experience personally, but if you do, I bet there’s a lot of similarities between what was said then in terms of “it’s different this time”, and what people are arguing now.

    I just love the famous axiom, “the only thing we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history”.

    I know for a fact that at that time, folks were saying there was “no more land left in urban Victoria”, and “Victoria is becoming a coast class city“, whatever the latter means. It was a marketing line used at the time. Quite cute, looking back at it from present day vantage. Then, it must have all seemed unstoppable. Victoria had come of age. We were on the map. Until…well, you know.

  24. Hey guys. My wife and I just recently got back from Arizona. Not that you missed me but I have to comment on the Home Capital mess.

    Hawk, you are dead on with the fallout from this horror story. They concentrated their business in Toronto, Calgary and Vancouver. This could very well be the elusive “black swan” moment.

    Introvert: “Sorry, but for literally years people on this blog have been drawing up long lists of circumstances that could negatively affect Victoria real estate, and in that time Victoria real estate has only ever flatlined or gone up dramatically.”

    The fallout from a market crash is not limited to the housing market and it is consequential to everyone.

    During all of those years of warnings, some people argued that this is not the States and we were so much more conservative in Canada. Oops.we.did.it.again.

    I’m not sure what the motivations are for “dire warnings” but I can certainly speak for myself. I’m not interested in further Real Estate investment after a possible crash. I am remembering the crash of the early 80’s and the impact it had on family, friends and myself.

    These bubbles are only grown by the media, realtors, anecdotes of big money and FOMO.

    I’ll support you on this, Hawk. I would rather sell the day before the market took off then the day after it collapsed.

    If there was actually one responsible entity, corporation or individual that would have stood up and said “no, we are not going to go down the same path as the U.S.A.” a lot of millennials and possible retiring boomers could have avoided the upcoming disaster.

    Yes, a lot of people (mostly realtors) made huge amounts of money but guess what, the majority of the people are sitting on their equity and enjoying the illusory gains … until they are crystallized. I shared that same smile in 1981 until I didn’t.

    Personally, I hope that all of us “doomers” are wrong because this housing monster now owns the economy. This collapse could be the ugliest that Canada has ever experienced.

    Good luck to all.

  25. Hawk, I don’t think you are wrong in saying HCG is the canary in the coal mine. I think it is like an iceberg we’ve bumped up against…a lot more is below the surface. These things can domino, but might take awhile.

  26. Intorovert is clueless that this isn’t Greece or the EU, this is a massive part of the Canadian financial mortgage lending system with much more fraud to be exposed.

    It’s Canada’s own little 2008 with Trump about to rip up NAFTA. Look out below ostriches.

  27. I would be more worried bout being surstrommed.

    As you should be. Dog mess needs to be specifically targeted to work, and it can just be rinsed away.

    Surstromming by contrast, is a WMD. All I need to know is the neighborhood you live in, walk to the center of it, and lay it out. It’ll get you, downwind or not. You’ll never wash it out of your memory. Your cats will develop PTSD, and never go near fish again. Your gnomes will turn into golems and run away. In short – it’d be all over, and that’s to say nothing about what would happen to local property values.

  28. Not just housing but Jobs. Need to keep investing in job training. Busy people have less time to create problems for the government and each other.

    Not really a lack of jobs here. People are chronically underpaid for the training they currently have in this city.

  29. James, I agrees with you on the fetish thing going on between Introvert and Just Jack. Definitely some emotional instability happening when someone keeps clips of old posts from just one single blogger and then makes up lies about that blogger. Sounds like what an ex lover would do.

  30. I also find it odd how someone so concerned with indigenous land rights takes so much pleasure in his/her own personal postage stamp of stolen land.

    It’s not really that odd. Lots of self-absorbed douchebags in Victoria. For all of Introvert’s concern I bet they’ve done exactly nothing for indigenous land rights.

  31. Leo

    Not just housing but Jobs. Need to keep investing in job training. Busy people have less time to create problems for the government and each other.

  32. @Introvert The observation that growing income inequality and lack of options for young people leads to unrest and violence is actually a good one. Look at places where hope for young people is low and you see it immediately. We should all be interested in making sure young people have good housing options.

    I also find it odd how someone so concerned with indigenous land rights takes so much pleasure in his/her own personal postage stamp of stolen land.

  33. My gnomes are simply too precious to risk that.

    I had to google it but I would be more worried bout being surstrommed.

  34. I’m going to hide my garden gnomes immediately. I’m scared that Just Jack / John Dollar will throw dog crap on them. My gnomes are simply too precious to risk that.

  35. There’s a lot of things happening right now. The softwood tariff just announced (and the CAD took a pounding), Provincial election is coming and it’s anyone’s guess who will win (and what policies are implemented) and of course NAFTA is still up in the air. The economy could really take a dive. Maybe that’d curb real estate for a bit, or maybe Poloz will drop rates or implement QE which may keep RE going unless other policies are implemented.

    Sorry, but for literally years people on this blog have been drawing up long lists of circumstances that could negatively affect Victoria real estate, and in that time Victoria real estate has only ever flatlined or gone up dramatically.

    A few years ago, it was Greece and the EU. Posters here would expound day after day, paragraph after excruciating paragraph, on how Greece’s insolvency was eventually going to bring down Victoria real estate.

  36. I remember back a few years when a certain poster. Just Jack. was telling us that prices in the core would be crushed thanks to that volatile land value tanking.

    Just Jack has been so wrong, about so much, for so long that he had to change his name to continue participating here.

    Just Jack / John Dollar seems to be coming up with more and more unethical schemes to make money.

    And spreading dog crap around upper Fernwood in righteous glee

    One of my all-time favourite chestnuts from Just Jack:

  37. penguin

    I just assumed most places with a suite would be a bit more expensive but maybe that’s just the area I’ve been looking.

    From what I’ve seen a finished basement is the same as a suite (give or take), but a split level of a similar size (i.e. not possible to suite) is cheaper. I guess throwing a kitchen into a plumbed basement isn’t a big deal, but it’s definitely not free. Doesn’t make sense to me.

    ag

    Who to believe??!

    The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. I was hoping for things to go flat this spring (well.. that was my prediction in the fall). Maybe there’s still a chance that will happen? With the craziness continuing in the new year I had thought we’re hooped until at least fall.

    There’s a lot of things happening right now. The softwood tariff just announced (and the CAD took a pounding), Provincial election is coming and it’s anyone’s guess who will win (and what policies are implemented) and of course NAFTA is still up in the air. The economy could really take a dive. Maybe that’d curb real estate for a bit, or maybe Poloz will drop rates or implement QE which may keep RE going unless other policies are implemented.

  38. more and more unethical schemes to make money

    And spreading dog crap around upper Fernwood in righteous glee

  39. Or better yet raise money to buy properties through a real estate syndicate. Then it doesn’t matter what’s paid for the properties as the principle way of making money is to attract more investors and pay a fat salary and fat commissions to yourself. Then when things go wrong, just blame it on the market, close down the limited company and sell the assets to pay back investors mere pennies of what they had originally invested.

    Just Jack / John Dollar seems to be coming up with more and more unethical schemes to make money. There were also those comments a few days ago about buying a property and bailing on the contract if the market started to drop. Not someone I’d want to do business with.

  40. I don’t think this is something that people should be dismissing.

    I did my bit to help with the Home Capital collapse. I removed all but a few hundred dollars from the Oaken Saving account I have. I also have a small GIC with them coming due in a few days. I’ll get that money out of there too. I still have a slightly larger GIC with them coming due in a few months.

  41. So when someone is telling you that you’re just buying land value they’re talking out of their butt hole as they have nothing to back up that statement.

    I remember back a few years when a certain poster. Just Jack. was telling us that prices in the core would be crushed thanks to that volatile land value tanking.

  42. Barrister are these really the houses of high end earners in Victoria? Because who would be left to buy the middle and upper end properties then?

    The only way I would buy one of these properties is using your money.

    Or better yet raise money to buy properties through a real estate syndicate. Then it doesn’t matter what’s paid for the properties as the principle way of making money is to attract more investors and pay a fat salary and fat commissions to yourself. Then when things go wrong, just blame it on the market, close down the limited company and sell the assets to pay back investors mere pennies of what they had originally invested.

    As far as I know this is a legal “ponzi like” scheme in Canada as long as one is purchasing properties. There is no limit to the amount of money someone can raise relative to the assets purchased. One could raise 10 million dollars to buy 5 million dollars of real estate and pay the other 5 million out in dividends, salaries and commissions.

    As long as you’re buying properties or improving the land by excavating or pouring a foundation this would not be a ponzi scheme. But really it is.

  43. Mortgage broker on BNN says Home Capital blowup will severely hamper borrowers with one in four borrowers being subprime.

    HCG may be facing the beginning of their end, but in any case, it’s not the only broker that is showing signs of distress. Share values in Equitable Group are also plummeting, and two others have dropped significantly and are trying to find new footing.

    I don’t think this is something that people should be dismissing.

  44. Incredible it went for that much, but maybe that’s just lot value in that area now.

    That is just it Luke, it has to be lot value otherwise the purchasers have made a colossal mistake. But since there hasn’t been a sale of a similar but vacant lot within a half kilometer radius of this property since 2011 it isn’t possible to definitely say it is or is not land value.

    Yet saying that it is land value somehow makes a purchaser feel better as land does not depreciate. However vacant land is the most volatile component of real estate with wide fluctuations in price as it appeals to a small group of buyers that are immediately affected by changes in the economy. Like what happened in 2008 when there was a credit crunch that severely reduced the ability of developers to obtain financing.

    So when someone is telling you that you’re just buying land value they’re talking out of their butt hole as they have nothing to back up that statement.

  45. Age must have crept up on me; I still think a million dollars is an awful lot of money to pay for a house.
    These are modest little houses that we are talking about. I just think that there are the high paying jobs in Victoria to support these prices in the long run.

  46. 1726 Amphion – interesting – I’ve heard from some inside the tweed curtain joke that that area is called the ‘Tijuana’ of OB.

  47. Thanks huevos – I still find it strange that the occasional property just disappears of my PCS and doesn’t show up as sold – but if that happens – just ask the blog! 🙂

    That house was small at only 1200 sq ft., old and dated 1942 build, only one small bathroom, and in my opinion every room needed a paint job (unless loud vibrant crazy un-matching colours are your thing). Incredible it went for that much, but maybe that’s just lot value in that area now.

  48. 1726 Amphion – listed for 650k, sold for 700k.

    An old 1000sf house on a small lot, but situated right in the Red Barn Zone.

  49. “While local economic and demographic fundamentals have been supportive of rising home prices, prices have risen too fast to be supported by fundamentals alone.”

    In other words it’s a speculator/gamblers market. Mortgage broker on BNN says Home Capital blowup will severely hamper borrowers with one in four borrowers being subprime.

    Keep sucking on the koolaid gwac. Can’t keep your head up your posterior forever. Why haven’t you bought that lot last weekend or last month ? Cluck cluck.

  50. What did or does CMHC say about Vancouver or Toronto? Does it really make any difference what that bloated organization says? They always seem late to the game with whatever they say as well.

  51. Does anyone know what 2510 Epworth St in OB sold for? I was at the open house last Sunday and it was listed for $849k. Crazy paint colours in every room. Sold sign up in front now but it just disappeared off my PCS sheet. Not sure why some properties do that?

  52. Any bank that would lend on the full prices of Pembroke or Pilot are banks I would not keep my money in.

    Too much risk of a loss even if the banks wanted 20% down. A loan to value ratio of 50% would be prudent lending. Any more would be putting the bank’s shareholders and depositors at risk. Which you, the depositor, will have to pay for with higher banking fees in the future.

    These crazy prices will stop when the banks are held accountable for their poor lending judgement.

  53. Summary of updated CMHC report:

    Overall, the framework indicates strong evidence of problematic housing market conditions in the Victoria CMA.

    Continued rapid increases in house prices exceeds growth supported by economic and demographic fundamentals.

    The resale market continues to be out of balance, with elevated sales and a concurrent low supply of homes.

    With an overheated market, price growth continues to accelerate.

    Due to low levels of starts of new homes and a low rental market vacancy rate, there is weak evidence of overbuilding.

    The HMA framework detected strong evidence of overvaluation in the Victoria CMA in the fourth quarter of 2016, upgraded from moderate evidence in the third quarter. Continued above average MLS price gains over the past two years have culminated in average prices strongly exceeding those supported by local fundamentals. While local economic and demographic fundamentals have been supportive of rising home prices, prices have risen too fast to be supported by fundamentals alone.

    Further home price gains in the fourth quarter of 2016 led to the HMA framework detecting additional signals that prices are out of line with fundamentals, leading to the upgrade from moderate to strong evidence of overvaluation in the Victoria CMA.

  54. 3381 Veteran sold for $984,000?

    That is a 2100 square foot 50s house on a 6300 square foot lot… Nicely updated and cared for, but almost a million? I recall not too long ago nice houses in that area were 600kish. I guess it is like Oaklands now.

  55. Contrary to what was posted in the TC, Victoria City Council has not finished discussion on the foreign buyer’s 15% tax on the CRD and they actually seem to be quite split on the idea of bringing the tax to Victoria. Their final vote on this issue is tomorrow and I have heard that at the last meeting, the “no” side was fearful the tax would be seen as a racist head tax. Does anyone have the updated stats for foreign purchasers of Victoria real estate? Is the information only offered voluntarily? I feel like it’s a growing problem in our market and I’m getting really sick of the realtor flyers in my mailbox stating “Offshore Network of Buyers available to snap up your house!” Aren’t most of our foreign buyer’s of Victoria homes American?

    Stats would be super helpful, I am planning on attending the Town Hall meeting to speak on the impact this would have in our city. As a first time buyer I’m getting really sick of being pushed out.

    If anyone’s interested in just passively voicing an opinion on this, Generation Squeeze has a petition going as well that will be presented tomorrow:

    http://www.gensqueeze.ca/crd_fbt?utm_campaign=20170425_fbtcrd&utm_medium=email&utm_source=gensqueeze

  56. Follow up to confidential banking breach. It turns out there is a form the bank needs to complete and another that I need to sign indicating I returned the confidential forms to the bank. If you receive someone else’s banking documents return them to your branch, make sure they fill out a report and sign the returned form.

  57. Wolf,
    I believe a credit lending squeeze will kick in now as Home Capital and every other lender is going to be scrutinized to the max.

    This is a MAJOR catalyst when no one who can qualify to borrow from the banks can easily borrow from these subprime lenders.

    Don’t buy the agent bullshit of the latest fool who got gouged. The tide is going out fast.

  58. @Hawk.
    The declining health of the mortgage insurance companies is certainly difficult to ignore. Wonder where some people will go now for subprime and over extended mortgages. Buying power seems to be taking a hit with elevated prices and new laws taken into account.

  59. Marko – “It seems we may be making one more jump.”

    Hawk – “As I was saying……time to sell ASAP. No wonder all the price slashes. Buyers balking”

    Who to believe??!

  60. Pembroke wasn’t the only massive sale yesterady….75 Pilot for $901,000. 3381 Veteran 16k short of a million…etc.

    It seems we may be making one more jump.

  61. Thanks freedom-2008. But I’m sitting here wondering… In this globalized world where so many in other countries are making so much more than us overtaxed Canuck saps… who actually follows all these rules? Seems to me we are the sheeps with a pathetic currency being fleeced.

  62. Luke said: One thing to think about on this topic is, now that the new Capital gains disclosure on income tax forms when one sells their personal residence is now in effect, it will put in place a huge tax bill on the portion of your home that was a suite, when selling your house

    While that depends on three factor (see below) as stated on CRA wed site. So if your suite is small (say under 15% of total house area), and you didn’t change any structure nor claim any CCA, then there is no CG to be reported: http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/tpcs/ncm-tx/rtrn/cmpltng/rprtng-ncm/lns101-170/127/rsdnc/chngs/chngngprt-eng.html

    “Changing part of your principal residence to a rental or business property
    You are usually considered to have changed the use of part of your principal residence when you start to use that part for rental or business purposes.

    However, you are not considered to have changed its use if:

    your rental or business use of the property is relatively small in relation to its use as your principal residence;
    you do not make any structural changes to the property to make it more suitable for rental or business purposes; and
    you do not deduct any CCA on the part you are using for rental or business purposes.
    If you meet all of the above conditions, the whole property may qualify as your principal residence, even though you are using part of it for rental or business purposes.

    However, if you do not meet all of the above conditions, when you actually sell the property you have to:

    split the selling price between the part you used for your principal residence and the part you used for rental or business purposes. We will accept a split based on square metres or the number of rooms as long as the split is reasonable; and
    report any capital gain on the part you used for rental or business purposes. For more information, see Real estate, depreciable property, and other properties. You do not have to report any capital gain for the part you used for your principal residence.”

  63. Pembroke’s been shit on by better dogs than your’s, John!

    I think Barrister noted not a single house for sale in Fernwood a couple weeks ago. So almost anything going up for sale now is going to command a huge price.

    I’m still waiting to see what a half decent/ fixed up bungalow will fetch in Fernwood/ Oaklands in this market.

  64. 6 price reductions, 2 price increases. About similar to the last week where there were 54 price reductions (8/day)

    No market expert, but for some reason I’m not sure that the reductions are necessarily meaningful in terms of market sentiment – at least at this time. It could just be the sellers are being too optimistic.

    What do you guys think?

  65. today I noticed many price reductions

    6 price reductions, 2 price increases.
    About similar to the last week where there were 54 price reductions (8/day)

  66. Sorry Caveat a bit harsh but I didn’t mean to necessarily direct it at you (just bad landlords). You sound like a great landlord and you should be proud if you are! I don’t like it when landlords want your money but don’t let you live like a human. If you don’t like people and dont want to hear or smell or see them then don’t rent out your basement!

    Vicrenter that’s awesome that you found a place and have the option of a suite. I just assumed most places with a suite would be a bit more expensive but maybe that’s just the area I’ve been looking. Good luck with it!

  67. Vicrenter said:

    I didn’t find there was much price difference between houses with suites and houses without so long as they had roughly the same total square footage. A finished basement basically put a suiteless house in the same price range as a suited house (at least in Oaklands, Hillside, and Mayfair). We found a house that we liked that happened to have a suite. If/when we chose to stop renting the suite, it can easily be incorporated back into the house. And it’ll make a nice guest space.

    My observations exactly. There was no premium that I could see when we bought. If you can find a home in those locations with a finished basement but not suited, the price was not discounted from a suited home.

    BTW Vicrenter, I think renting to 2 people vs just 1 has a huge impact on noise. You can be clear upfront that your expectation is that only one person lives in the suite, but if they do choose to move in a second individual, you would need to add them to the lease and renogiate rent. Hoping someone who is more familiar with the law can add clarity to this but this is my understanding.

  68. today I noticed many price reductions, even on homes that have been on the market for less than a week. There’s also quite an inventory of homes that have been on the market for well over a month. Perhaps the madness is coming to an end.

  69. oceantrader
    “I’m wondering if the slide in sales and average prices has to do with people waiting for the election in 2 weeks”
    I’m sure you’re right on this oceantrader. As a Realtor I always experienced a slowdown in activity for Federal and Provincial elections and even Municipal.

  70. Leo do you know if the 4.5 mil house on Exeter in Uplands sold or just off market?

    Relisted today at $4M. Should show up shortly.

  71. I’m wondering if the slide in sales and average prices has to do with people waiting for the election in 2 weeks…if the ndp get in it could cause house prices to drop in anticipation of more regulations.

  72. Landlords should have to take a course and pass an exam. There are so many amateur landlords in this city that aren’t educated on the RTA. Don’t be one of these fools vicrenter.

  73. a bowling ally would work. Of coarse my wife would turn it into…

    It sounds like you have an interesting home life. Just saying. 😀

  74. Leo:

    Swimming pool is not realistic but a bowling ally would work. Of coarse my wife would turn it into either a sewing room or a sex dungeon.

  75. I actually thought that the house was great for someone who worked at the hospital such as a technician or a young doctor. Good location, not too big a yard to look after and about the price of a fancier condo without all the strata fees.

  76. Full walk-out basement dry for storage or…?

    I assume they meant to imply the basement could be converted into a swimming pool or a horse track but didn’t want to say it out loud to avoid sounding too bourgeoisie.

  77. That is one frigging ugly shack on Pembroke. I won’t even pick up my dog’s shit when I walk through that area as I consider it a neighborhood improvement.

  78. Does anyone know if the house for 4.5 mil on Exeter Rd, in Uplands, sell or has it gone off market?

  79. Anyone go to the open house for 1609 Pembroke this weekend? Nice neighbourhood, but a tragic layout in the house – walk THROUGH the ‘second bedroom’ to get to the family room. Anyways, I see that it sold for 810k, over an ask of 689k. I can’t help but feel that someone overpaid grossly. But, you know what they say about opinions…

  80. Interesting numbers John, looks like there are a lot of big losers out there in the core since January.

    Buyers are leaving Victoria as media tries to spin the bullshit of Vancouverites still pouring in. Peak Victoria indeed. The Hawk is right on target. 😉

  81. The challenge is to figure out why average and median prices for condominiums has stalled in the core.

    Most condos are just cans of soup on a wall. Most look alike inside. So what is stopping prices from rising with the current shortage of listings and strong demand?

    Month Sale Price, Median
    Jan $346,000
    Feb $375,750
    Mar $375,000
    Apr $363,300

    Once you’ve saved 10% then you go out shopping and buy a condo. There is little reason to save more and wait longer. That makes most first time home buyers equal in what they can afford. Again could this be a sign of peak prices? The months of inventory for condos is now lower than houses; but unlike houses in the core, condominium sales are near a decade high.

    The difference between these two markets is the direction in sale volumes. Now, we just have to sit back and watch what happens to prices.

  82. The number of foreign buyers in the region has risen from around 3 to 10 per cent following Vancouver’s foreign buyer tax that came into effect August 2016, according to provincial data.

    I know downtown if full of dispensaries, but what is Helps smoking? No month has come close to 10%

    It could be 10% in the City of Victoria proper, but we have no data on that as Helps admits.

    Interesting note about rezoning process going down from 12-18months to 6-8 months. You don’t hear about that often.

  83. We rented out a basement suite for years and never had a problem. Always university students. I only put an ad up on the university rental page. We were literally swamped with replies. It was very stressful. Then I got smart and read the housing wanted ads instead. I could filter out people that way. When I saw an ad that appealed I would write them. It was all anonymous . You can learn a great deal from written communication. If they wrote well, were serious students, no pets, no smoking then we would go back and forth a bit and meet. Never ever had a problem. Put an ad up and be prepared for the onslaught!

  84. Highest taxes, highest incidence of machete attacks and murder suicides.. Why does everyone love Oak Bay so much again?

  85. It looks as if April will be the third lowest months of inventory in the last decade for detached houses in the core. So what happened to prices in 2016 and 2008 when we had lower MOIs?

    In 2016 the average and median prices were trending higher from January for most of the remaining year. For simplicity I’ll just show median prices for houses in the core from January to December 2016. I don’t have the data for median prices in 2008.

    Month Sale Price, Median
    Jan $655,500
    Feb $681,500
    Mar $740,000
    Apr $759,500
    May $760,000
    Jun $743,000
    Jul $754,500
    Aug $728,000
    Sep $782,100
    Oct $826,500
    Nov $809,000
    Dec $761,000

    But this year is different in that median prices are not increasing despite the low months of inventory.
    .
    Month Sale Price, Median
    Jan $900,000
    Feb $880,400
    Mar $868,000
    Apr $830,000
    May
    Jun
    Jul
    Aug
    Sep
    Oct
    Nov
    Dec

    Could it possibly mean peak prices have been reached for houses in the core!? And that would lead to fewer and fewer buyers going forward with the volume of sales underperforming relative to previous years. With the possibility that monthly sale volumes for the rest of the year could be the worst in a decade?

    And what does that mean to the local economy? Fewer and smaller pay checks and rising unemployment.

    Your house might be worth a million dollars but there might not be a buyer for it.

  86. We looked at a few houses where there was no way to connect the suite back to the main living space (exterior entrance/exit only). That was a deal breaker for me.

    Nevermind an interior entrance makes it easier to argue incidental use to CRA. A fully separated suite would be a tough case to make that it is used as a principal residence.

  87. For an average earner the extra tax might be more in the $21,000 range. If there are two of you splitting the gain then it will be much less still.

    $21,000 = not a very scary tax bill. If your house appreciates $350,000 and you can’t afford a $21,000 CG bill, then you’ve got bigger problems.

    Thanks for breaking the numbers down, totoro. It means the PRE is not even that big a deal, in the long run. One can collect a lot more in rent over 10 years than the CG bill it creates.

    I have no water view, no pool, an unremarkable car, a nerdy but lovable husband, a large collection of seasonal decorations, and mediocre returns on stocks. Sad!

    You just confirmed what we all already suspected: you are the biggest loser on this blog.

  88. Here’s why I like RE as an investment:
    1.) You can improve it. (paint, add a deck, french doors, jazz up curb appeal etc.
    2.) Change its use, (add a suite)
    3.) Rezone it
    4.) Subdivide it
    5) Create an income earning space, workshop, studio, office
    6.) Grow food, poultry
    7.) Add a 2nd storey create a view.
    These are the options I look for in buying RE as an investment.
    What can others add to this list?

  89. Fail Hawk, just out and out fail…

    But at least he’s making 500% returns on the stock market—not to mention he’s an ace at predicting housing market crashes.

    Also Hawk knew he would be caught with his pic and he posted to get a rise out of you. How can some of you not recognize this by now?

    And he’s ironically pointing us to doom-and-gloom real estate articles?

  90. Our tenant sometimes cooks some soup that we can smell through the vents. Then she brings some up. Yummy.
    Sometimes our tenant makes a lot of noise in the backyard…. she was mowing the lawn.
    Our tenant was digging up part of the yard… to put in a vegetable bed.

    It’s going ok.

    Then your tenant got an Andrew Weaver lawn sign, so you placed it on the side of the house where your neighbours can’t see it?

  91. Marko where did you get the “less then 1%” from?

    “Marko Juras
    April 5, 2017 at 11:12 am

    It is such a small percentage of housing stock (less then 1%) and a solid chunk of this <1% would not long term rent if AirBnB was not an option.

    I have clients that AirBnB their basement suites, but wouldn’t rent otherwise as they have retired parents visiting for months at a time during the course of a year. Just one example.

    Beyond that there won’t be any buildings going forward with such zoning.”

  92. VicRenter

    My parents will want to come for a week or two at a time and the suite would be ideal.

    We had my wife’s parents stay for months while they searched for a house then renovated it. I was worried and it turned out fine. They mainly kept to themselves. And why wouldn’t they? They had everything they needed (including the ‘big’ tv).

    Shared laundry wasn’t ideal, so I’d change that if we were to rent out the basement. And that’s just me being picky. In practice it worked fine, but we’re really used to having our own laundry (i.e. lazy about dealing with it).

  93. We looked at a few houses where there was no way to connect the suite back to the main living space (exterior entrance/exit only). That was a deal breaker for me.

  94. @Bingo: “The best guest space since it is self contained.”

    That’s what I’m hoping! My parents will want to come for a week or two at a time and the suite would be ideal. But when no guests are there it’ll also very useable as a part of the house. There’s just a door that separates it from the rest of the finished basement space.

  95. VicRenter

    If/when we chose to stop renting the suite, it can easily be incorporated back into the house. And it’ll make a nice guest space.

    The best guest space since it is self contained. We have relatives visit that will stay weeks to a month. If we had to share bathrooms and a kitchen it’d become tedious quickly. With their own space it’s fun. Spend some time together when it’s convenient and when schedules don’t align or we’re busy with work they can do their own thing.

  96. Wow this is why some people shouldn’t be landlords. You want someone to live in your house with you and help pay the mortgage but eating fish for dinner is a character flaw (inconsiderate as you implied)…How dare they stink up MY house! And Im sure they cannot make noise, watch TV past 9, cook curries etc… Do you make your kids shut up for their sake? Tell them to play without making a peep? Do you ask if they can smell the food you are cooking or hear your TV? I’m not saying you don’t do these things and I’m not trying to say your are a bad landlord but I’m stereotyping most landlords and am genuinely curious.

    Holy assumptions Penguin. My basic point was that I am lucky to have fantastic tenants such that the worst thing I can “complain” about is the occasional smelly ethnic fish dinner (it really is smelly). I really haven’t made any rules on them at all as they are so considerate it has not been an issue. Thanks to a whole floor of separation once I go to bed any sounds from the basement/ground floor would have to be REALLY loud. The floor of separation works to their advantage as well as the kids are mostly upstairs after 730 or 8 PM and we are mostly upstairs after 9 or 930. The bargain price that our tenants pay takes into account that there is some daytime noise from the kids. I don’t make my kids be quiet but I do require of them some basic consideration like hours in which musical instruments can be played. I also tend to kick them outside (kids not tenants) when they are being boisterous.

    As for food smells I think that is mainly a one way issue (up) because of the way heated air travels and also the fact that our kitchen range is well vented and the basement one is not. If we cooked something really strong they might smell it.

    My comments were in the context of potential renovations to basement suite. If I was doing major renovations to our house that included fixing up the suite I would think about doing separate heating systems. There would be a ton of advantages:
    1) Less transmission of sounds and smells between living spaces.
    2) Greater comfort in basement. Heat setting for the rest of the house is on the cool side in the basement. For the time being this is solved by giving the tenants some cheap space heaters to use in winter
    3) Energy savings – When I go away in winter currently I have to heat the whole house more than needed just to keep the basement tolerable.

    All of these are first world problems, but worth addressing in the scope of a larger renovation.

    We don’t currently need the suite income (doesn’t hurt though) and it some point I would like the space back for our own use (in laws visiting frequently). But right now things are working and I’d hate to boot good people out into the current rental market.

  97. Sounds like some real crazy shit in Oak Bay on house on Willows Beach. Unconfirmed reports on Victoria Buzz of woman attatcked with machete during B&E. As I was saying about crime in Oak Bay can be some of the worst. Hope they are OK.

    Now watch for the naysayers to downplay it.

  98. hawk

    You panty waists still can’t take a joke. LOL

    Not obvious enough for some I guess. The image was hotlinked. Hover a mouse over and there was no guessing, it’s straight from OBBH website. It’s not like you tried to disguise it by downloading it and reposting to imgur or something. If one were to do that, I’d recommend cropping it at minimum so it’s harder to search.

    I’d expect most people have nice views this time of the year in Victoria (assuming they aren’t in a windowless basement). It’s beautiful right now. I can see dozens of trees in bloom, the tulips and daffodils are up… everything is green and growing. I can’t wait for the lilacs to bloom. I used to love walking Fernwood when that happens. The fragrance is amazing (it overpowers the smell of people smoking weed).

  99. Thanks again for all of the advice. I’m going to declare rental income not matter what — I’d like to sleep well and without CRA-related nightmares. We’re very aware of the potential tax implications of renting down the road, but figure if we don’t rent for long then it likely won’t be a big deal. The suite also only takes up 25% of the house.

    I’m way too familiar with UVic students in all their various incarnations. I think that we’ll post the ad for September and assess our applicants then. Someone who wouldn’t be heartbroken if we asked them to leave after a year would be ideal.

    I agree that I need to change my name! VicOwner sounds like a really jerky name, though….

  100. “Vicrenter,
    I’m curious as to why you decided to purchase a home with a suite if you don’t need it?”

    I didn’t find there was much price difference between houses with suites and houses without so long as they had roughly the same total square footage. A finished basement basically put a suiteless house in the same price range as a suited house (at least in Oaklands, Hillside, and Mayfair). We found a house that we liked that happened to have a suite. If/when we chose to stop renting the suite, it can easily be incorporated back into the house. And it’ll make a nice guest space.

  101. But I do have a similar view,a hot wife, nice car,and a pool too.

    Pffft. I bet my pool is much bigger than yours, Hawk – and it has a water slide, wave pool and a sauna. Plus I never have to maintain it.

    I just have to drive a bit and pay $6.50 each time I use it.

  102. A remarkably Trump-like post from someone who is not a fan!

    I have no water view, no pool, an unremarkable car, a nerdy but lovable husband, a large collection of seasonal decorations, and mediocre returns on stocks. Sad!

  103. Also, if you are worried about how renting will affect your taxes you can sign up for Simple Tax and do various test returns for all the options, including a sale. It has the detailed rental income schedule. It is free, although when you file a return, a donation is asked for (and deserved imo).

    I do this for various scenarios for all our family members and it takes very little time – everything is calculated automatically for you when you input the variables.

    I use it for my personal return each year as well and it can, if you choose, link to your CRA online account (have to sign up in advance) so all the income data, RRSP contributions and carry-forwards, any LLP and HBP plan info, etc. inputs automatically. And my return is filed electronically with the click of a button.

  104. You panty waists still can’t take a joke. LOL
    But I do have a similar view,a hot wife, nice car,and a pool too. Never knew “homeowners” could get all worked up over a pic. Sad ! 😉

  105. I would point out that you have to declare rent as income on your tax form.It does not matter if it is a basement suite or a room in your house. It is still always income and must be declared.

    I cannot say this more bluntly, failure to intentional declare the income is tax fraud; in addition to fines and penalties it is also an indictable offence.

    If the NDP plan for a renters rebate goes in you can be sure that almost every student will apply for it and hence file their tax returns naming you as the landlord.

  106. Is it worth it to rent out a suite? Maybe. I don’t think it is worth it not to declare the income if you do. If you get caught the penalties and interest are prohibitive.

    Say you purchase a property for $650,000, and you sell it for $1,000, 000 in 10 years.

    Capital gain = $350,000

    Floor space ratio is 40%. Taxable gain is $140,000.

    In Canada, only 50% of capital gain is currently taxable, s0 50% of $140,000 is taxable = $70,000 which gets added to incomes (35k each if you are a couple) and is subject to the highest marginal tax rate for the respective tax brackets you are in.

    If we apply the highest marginal tax rate in BC – approx. 46% the tax liability is roughly $32,200 at the most. If you make less than approx. $200,000 personally BEFORE you add in this income, you will be subject to a lower tax rate. $32,200 is the maximum you would have to pay on the capital gain and you may be able to shelter some if you sell in a low income year and use up unused RRSP contribution room.

    For an average earner the extra tax might be more in the $21,000 range. If there are two of you splitting the gain then it will be much less still.

    You’ll need to decide whether the loss of 21k in 10 years is worth the gain of income on a monthly basis now, which might add up to approx. ex. 150k over 10 years plus loss of privacy.

    Current rental income may be partially taxable as well at your top marginal tax rate depending on your expenses so you’d need to factor that in as well.

    Overall, for most folks, paying capital gains tax probably makes it worth it to have the extra rental income when they first buy. After ten years you might want to stop, incorporate the space back into the main house, and your taxable gain will be pro-rated for the years you rented out separate space.

  107. Vicrenter,
    I’m curious as to why you decided to purchase a home with a suite if you don’t need it? You’d think places would be cheaper without the suite. It is very interesting watching the market and how the places with suites are so much more sought after.

    Caveat,
    “I speak from experience. My tenants occasionally cook very smelly fish dinner. Since they are otherwise ultimately considerate and generally fantastic people it’s a small price to pay.”

    Wow this is why some people shouldn’t be landlords. You want someone to live in your house with you and help pay the mortgage but eating fish for dinner is a character flaw (inconsiderate as you implied)…How dare they stink up MY house! And Im sure they cannot make noise, watch TV past 9, cook curries etc… Do you make your kids shut up for their sake? Tell them to play without making a peep? Do you ask if they can smell the food you are cooking or hear your TV? I’m not saying you don’t do these things and I’m not trying to say your are a bad landlord but I’m stereotyping most landlords and am genuinely curious. I rent and care for my house like it was my own but still have to live my life ya know. Might mean some dents here or there or letting my kids be loud or cooking fish…

    Honestly this is why I don’t want to be a landlord. Don’t want to have to share a house.

    Also Hawk knew he would be caught with his pic and he posted to get a rise out of you. How can some of you not recognize this by now?

  108. ” senior students (3rd & 4th year) and post graduate students. They are there to study and complete university so will likely have a minimal social life. ”

    That was so not true my day:-). Very sad if you don’t have social life while in Uni.

  109. Any opinions on renting to students vs non-students?

    Hi VicRenter – and congrat’s on finding your new house! Being a homeowner is a great feeling. (Nothing wrong with renting if that’s where one is in life, but personally I wouldn’t want someone else having that kind of ‘control’ over where and how I live). Now you will have to change your name…

    One thing to think about on this topic is, now that the new Capital gains disclosure on income tax forms when one sells their personal residence is now in effect, it will put in place a huge tax bill on the portion of your home that was a suite, when selling your house, if you end up renting to longer term tenants who fill out income tax from your same address, if you sell for more than what you paid (and therefore: in most cases, unless you are staying in your home for very very long term, it might no longer make that worthwhile). Welcome to Canada, land of ultra high taxation.

    So, my thoughts are: that renting to students could be more beneficial from that perspective as they would likely not fill out income tax at your address and be more transient (and not bring the attention of the CRA). There will be those that say you still have to report to CRA even if it’s transient students renting, of course. So – that’s up to you and how you want to deal with CRA. Also, there’s still confusion as to what the CRA even considers a suite as they haven’t made that totally clear. Apparently you can rent a room in your house, declare the rental income, and not be subject to capital gains taxation on selling. Apparently, if the suite is connected to the rest of your home, it’s not a separate suite and therefore not subject to the capital gains on selling your home? That brings up a huge discussion which we already had on here some time ago.

    The benefit of students is also unlike perm. tenants, if you get bad ones – they are transient and will eventually move out! If you get good ones – they likely have some years to complete their degree and you can welcome them back. There is a huge need for student housing as UVic hasn’t built enough, and Camosun has none – so there is always someone to choose from (but as we all know there is a huge need for any rental housing). You may get your suite back for your personal use in summer if the student goes ‘home’ for the summer too, so that’s another benefit. At the risk of bringing on even more controversy – do I dare mention that international Asian students are often very conservative and might make really good tenants?

    I’m sure my thoughts on this will bring discussion, but that’s the whole point of this blog – to have discussion around various issues (that hopefully does not descend into toxicity).

  110. High real-estate prices in Greater Victoria driving buyers out: report

    The average residential price in Greater Victoria was $612,584 in the opening quarter of this year — a 12 per cent increase from the same period a year ago — and limited inventory is expected to drive prices even higher, says a new report.

    The Re/Max Spring Market Trends Report said inventory levels are so low in the region that potential buyers are choosing to leave the real estate market, citing a 14 per cent drop in sales during the January-to-March period this year compared to last — from 2,432 sales to 2,082.

    “New condo projects that are nearing completion will help increase inventory levels and are expected to lead to increased sales activity toward the end of the year and into 2018,” Re/Max said.

    Condominiums and luxury homes are the most sought-after properties in Greater Victoria, the report added, with listings for both typically receiving multiple offers.

    According to Re/Max, the year-over-year average condo price in the region is up 18 per cent, from $333,961 to $393,545, with young couples and retirees driving the demand.

    Typical prices for so-called luxury homes ranges between $1 million and $2.5 million. The report notes “move-up” buyers are driving that demand with ocean-front properties in Oak Bay the most coveted buys.

    Re/Max said while demand from Vancouver-based buyers have cooled as a result of the provincial government’s foreign-buyer tax, in-migration from other provinces — primarily Alberta — continues to fuel demand in Greater Victoria.

    Re/Max said first-time buyers, which are typically young couples, face an escalating price range of between $400,000 and $500,000, leaving condominiums the main option in entering the market.

    Re/Max based its report on local statistics with estimates and forecasts based on opinions from broker/owners and affiliates.

    http://www.timescolonist.com/business/high-real-estate-prices-in-greater-victoria-driving-buyers-out-report-1.16877275

  111. VicRenter
    It really depends on the individual student. However, since you will be new as a landlord you would be better advised to stick to senior students (3rd & 4th year) and post graduate students. They are there to study and complete university so will likely have a minimal social life. Also these students would likely already have had numerous rental experiences as opposed to 1st year where in some cases it is mind boggling what they don’t know; what can and cannot be flushed down a toilet, not to put something burning hot straight onto a countertop, don’t cram storage items up against the hot water tank or furnace, etc. etc.
    As the home owner it is important that you write an addendum as part of the lease that stipulates all the things that are important to you. For example if you go to bed at 10pm, note that the washer/dryer can’t be used past 9pm or before 8am. or if you have just the one water tank you may want to restrict certain hours so you don’t run out of hot water for showering etc. It’s important to think through all these circumstances and detail it so your tenant knows your expectations as opposed to them being oblivious and you stewing about it.

  112. Any opinions on renting to students vs non-students?

    Problem is finding a student that will live there continuously. Anyone in a co-op program will be out every 4 months. And many students go home for the summers so again won’t be there for more than 8 months.

  113. I have to make this clear. When you post images that are not yours, make sure they are not from the internet. Too easy to find the original.

    Especially when the link is in the post pointing to

    Fail Hawk, just out and out fail… 😉

  114. VicRenter — I think you’ll find you get dozens of applicants and at the end of the day the best fit may or may not be a student. In your situation finding a student who wants an 8 or 9 month (September to April) fixed term lease may be ideal.

  115. Back on the blog after a couple days away. Interesting view Hawk. All the negative talk about OB from you, and you live here in the highest price hotel? Nice. They must give you a discount on $600/night as you are long term, but with your 500% stock return I’m sure it’s still a bargain…

    Thanks to those who posted some links on buying property in China in the last post. Sorry ‘numbers Hack’ I didn’t have time to google since I lead a busy life, and asking the blog always brings a much more varied perspective than one would get by doing that. However, I don’t get the toxicity coming at me from you though, whoever you are – after reading that I think you are quite sad indeed.
    As for being ‘well traveled’ thank you – I am – having traveled to every continent except S. America (and Antarctica). (my brother is an airline pilot for Cathay Pacific so that means almost free flights on standby – and I have been to China several times actually – its’ not a great way to fly however as one has to ‘sprint’ from the checkin at the last minute to the departure gate)

    I find when I do post questions or comments on various issues to the blog it often brings on varied and interesting discussion from most (however, the toxicity that comes from some unfortunate people on here is unfortunate – for them).

  116. Thanks for the rental advice, all. We’ll definitely have a fixed-term lease to start. This isn’t because we’re planning to jack the rent after a year but because we don’t know if we actually want to rent beyond a year. And in that time we’ll consider the soundproofing, taking into account the fact that ripping out ceilings in a 50s house may prove more problematic than it’s worth. Maybe everything will be great and we’ll rent long term, but I’m also really thankful that we’re not a situation where we’ll have to rent no matter what. The suite is always there in the event of future necessity, though.

  117. The softwood lumber tariff is going to cost a few jobs here in BC. But not a total surprise.

  118. Impressions from South Victoria:

    In terms of inventory, this month has been very uneven in south Victoria.

    On the one hand James Bay has added a surprising amount of inventory going from 4 SFH homes to 12.

    On the other hand, Rockland has dropped from 7 to 5 SFH with two houses on Despard being priced in the land of wishful thinking. Fairfield’s inventory has also dropped with most of it being over two million.

    Oak Bay has added a few listing and has a a fair number of houses under 1.5.
    Uplands is in some way a bit of a surprise and the inventory has ballooned from 4 to 12. Sales have been slow to say the least but considering that they are asking well over 2 mil for a knockdown maybe that is not surprising.

    The next month should be interesting. I was wondering if it is harder to sell a house in James Bay once the tourists start to flood the area?

  119. Non-strata are much cheaper PER UNIT as a result.

    Gotcha. Currently listed are:
    2202 Cook St for $699,900 (side by side)
    748 Porter Rd for $629,000 set up for bidding war (up/down)
    641 Goldstream for $795,000 (side by side)
    1146 Sluggett for $729,000 (side by side)

    Could make some sense instead of trying to get a place with a suite. At least most of these are side by side.

  120. Nice brainpump Marko! Still trying to get that term to catch on.

    Proud Esquimaltonaut right here. Oceanfront no less, and I’m wealthy/indebted enough to kind-of own multiple properties, and I should add that I’m somewhat athletic, nearly musical, and suspiciously nice. And I give way more than everybody to charity, or I used to. (Just trying to fit in.)

    And if anyone dares speak ill of the beloved Esquimalt motherland, we will somehow strike back with sudden and irrational pre-emptive fury, reducing all foes to smouldering, pitiful ashes like our savage yet friendly firemen do to so many Halloween bonfire wood scraps!

  121. I keep thinking the market is finally cooling off …

    Isn’t it?? 916 Deal St and 2767 Musgrave are still available. Gordon head boxes sold near their prices few months ago.

  122. Hawk
    April 24, 2017 at 3:58 pm
    Basement AG ? Your arrogance is clearly your forte. Off for a swim in my pool. Can’t stare at my view all day.

    Bwhahaha, that’s a hilarious and pathetic post.

    Cut and paste from OB beach hotel website. Hawk, why not show us your hot gf and cool car too? Google images just couple clicks away. Hahaha. What a loser.

  123. I keep thinking the market is finally cooling off and then tonight got into some insane bidding wars on condos where I thought my clients were going in above market unconditionally and they still got outbid.

    I see two homes in Sunrivers Sooke today went above ask…..

  124. Our tenant sometimes cooks some soup that we can smell through the vents. Then she brings some up. Yummy.
    Sometimes our tenant makes a lot of noise in the backyard…. she was mowing the lawn.
    Our tenant was digging up part of the yard… to put in a vegetable bed.

    It’s going ok.

  125. I definitely take the point on separate heating systems. Although I love the smell of money I’m not too terribly keen on the smell of someone else’s salmon dinner.

    I speak from experience. My tenants occasionally cook very smelly fish dinner. Since they are otherwise ultimately considerate and generally fantastic people it’s a small price to pay. But if/when I do renovations I’ll definitely separate the heating systems.

  126. It does seem that visitors to the blog are very core-centric. We have bearkilla from Langford, and I don’t recall anyone from esquimalt over the years.

  127. Good point about the asbestos. Drywall is f*cking impossible to get rid of these days. I still have a bag of it hanging around. Another good reason to leave it alone for now, and see if renting totally sucks with the current set up.

  128. Going back to the original topic, taxation without representation, are there any people here from the ‘winning’ municipalities? I can’t recall hearing about many from these municipalities. Are they out enjoying their homes instead of arguing about them on here like those of us in the ‘core’?

  129. VICRENTER
    Before you rip down your bsmt ceiling have a piece approx 6″ square sent off for asbestos testing. You don’t want to be surprised by an unexpected expensive removal charge. Note you won’t be able to dispose of the drywall at the dump/recycling depot without the testing certificate. Try and get a sample that includes drywall compound ie a taped joint.

  130. “I may be incorrect but you seem to be making statements about how things should be for everyone (able to afford a sfh) and how “we” are ruining the market. I am making statements about my own ideas about what I would do in today’s market”

    No, I’m just making statements based on my own viewpoint. I may agree or disagree on various issues but everyone is allowed to do as they wish within the bounds of the law. What I am doing though is making statements about how unsuccessful I think you’d be in today’s market. Why anyone starting out would go all-in on real estate right now (unless it’s a ‘forever’ house) especially on a co-owned home (likely meaning they have less money available to them) is beyond me. Maybe I’ll be wrong about this. Maybe I’ll be right. Who knows. It’s my opinion and I have a right to say it.

    ”I don’t believe the majority needs to fit what works for me either.”

    That certainly isn’t the impression that you give, for example, when you had the homeowner vs. investment discussion (+others). You probably don’t need to convince the majority to have your view, as you strike me as someone who is about as conventional as they come.

  131. @VicRenter

    Aside from the lack of sound proofing, what is the rest of the suite like? If it’s decent, i.e., you won’t feel guilty renting it to someone, my unsolicited advice would be not to do anything just yet, and rent it on a fixed-term. If you find the noise/smells intolerable, you just have to deal with it until the tenancy ends and then you have vacant possession. Then you can use the rent money to sound proof the suite.

    It might not be that bad in its current setup. As a former renter of the oft-derided 50s bungalow basement suite, the most annoying type of sound transmission, by far, is footfall. You’re in the upper suite, so you’re okay.

  132. I think it was around $4500 including painting for about 700 square feet. Was eight years ago and not in Victoria though. Might be able to get a better price here.

  133. I don’t think my suite can be made legal since the ceiling height is only 6.5ft in a couple of places where there’s ductwork (7ft throughout most of it). The fire alarms are already done, though. Totoro, do you know how much it cost you to do your ceiling insulation?

  134. AG is such a douche he can’t envision a renter having an awsome life. You really need to get out more….out of Oak Bay that is.

    Gwac,are you the pic nazi ?

  135. I not telling people what they should do, I’m telling you what I would do. I never suggested it for you or all “people looking to get in the market”. It is an unconventional idea that might work for a minority, and it is not a new idea. Already being done. And people will make their own decisions. They are not flocking to what I say.

    I may be incorrect but you seem to be making statements about how things should be for everyone (able to afford a sfh) and how “we” are ruining the market. I am making statements about my own ideas about what I would do in today’s market as it is knowing what we had to work with starting out and what our priorities were.

    I’ve admitted my ideas are not going to fit the majority. So what. I don’t believe the majority needs to fit what works for me either. Thank goodness actually because otherwise there would have been a lot more competition to deal with in my life.

    Vicbot, we did pull the ceiling off and do the double drywall (special stuff) rocksol and sound channel. If you legalize your suite you likely need a fire barrier anyway and this meets it. Also may need wired in fire alarms which can be done at the same time if they are not already. We did not try carpet due to dust mite allergies in the family.

  136. I definitely take the point on separate heating systems. Although I love the smell of money I’m not too terribly keen on the smell of someone else’s salmon dinner.

  137. “Not going to be popular in the mainstream ever”

    I completely agree which is why I was surprised that you would suggest it for people looking to get into the market. It’s a tremendously dumb idea. There are ways around what you suggest, and people can live whatever way they feel is ‘right’.

    It seems to me that you are very fixed in that your view is always correct, even when it deviates from the average or median, yet you don’t put much stock into the opinion of others when theirs deviates. Guess you can’t teach an old dog new tricks.

  138. “If you want to keep your hardwood floors, then you would have to pull down the existing ceiling, put in a layer of insulation (apparently Safe and Sound works best) and put up 2 layers of dry wall affixed to resilient channels.”

    That’s about what I figured. The main floor has nice hardwood and the basement ceiling is currently in good shape, so that’s annoying. Anyone know approximately how much it would cost to rip out the ceiling, put in insulation, and put up drywall for a 600sq ft suite? Maybe you’d also have to do the unfinished part of the basement in order to ensure the best sound proofing? In that case it would be 1200 sq ft.

  139. We did something a little complicated – transferred it to a family corporation for FMV. Locked in exempt gains at the existing rate in a low income year, applied unused rrsp contributions, released retained equity from the corporation, got rid of the income tax liability on the principal pay down now that I am not working so I don’t need to add this to my income and pay more tax doing so, used the released funds to pay down another mortgage for the same reason and to invest, and accommodated the tenant who wanted to stay one more year. We will trigger the final sale next spring if the market is good for this.

    Wow, all that worth it for one year?

  140. What’s the difference in practical terms between a strata and non-strata duplex?

    Strata can be financed separately and have a separate legal title. Non-strata do not but they are legal multifamily use. On non-strata you’ll pay one tax bill but separate water and garbage bills. On a strata you’ll have separate everything. Non-strata are much cheaper PER UNIT as a result.

  141. means each part can sell at different times

    They likely can’t. There is a very limited market for selling part of a house that doesn’t have a separate legal interest (ie.strata). There are all sorts of financing and legal complications. Outside of friends and family the whole house would need to be sold if one party can’t buy the other out. I don’t think I’ve ever seen this advertised even, although it exists by agreement in Vancouver and probably Victoria too – largely in multigen housing.

    You also aren’t going to get a separate loan based on a fractional interest. These mortgages are joint and several. Not going to be popular in the mainstream ever. There would be a lot of gnashing of teeth over having to negotiate matters with potentially irresponsible co-owners. Many would walk away from the potential future stress.

    It seems to me you have very fixed views on what the right way to live is. I readily admit that my unconventional ideas are a terrible fit for you. Doesn’t mean there is not a parent with adult children, perhaps expecting a grandchild, reading this right now and thinking it could work wonderfully for them.

  142. And, fwiw, there are number of non-strata legal side by side duplexes

    What’s the difference in practical terms between a strata and non-strata duplex?

  143. @VicRenter

    If you want to deaden footfall and airborne noise as cheaply as possible, carpet will do a decent job.

    If you want to keep your hardwood floors, then you would have to pull down the existing ceiling, put in a layer of insulation (apparently Safe and Sound works best) and put up 2 layers of dry wall affixed to resilient channels. Or you might be able to get away with one layer of Quiet Rock affixed to res channels…don’t know too much about it, except it’s really expensive but apparently does a good job.

    Done properly, the above set up will do a nice of job of making sure you and your tenants can’t really hear one another.

    Not really anyway around removing the existing ceiling imo.

    As for tenants using the yard, you can include additional terms in a tenancy agreement as long as the tenant agrees to them, they do not contradict the RTA and they are not unconscionable. You may be able to specify that use of all or part of the yard is not part of the tenancy.

  144. U.S. imposing 20-per-cent tariff on Canadian softwood lumber exports

    The United States has decided to impose preliminary countervailing duties of nearly 20 per cent against Canadian softwood lumber exports, the U.S. Lumber Coalition said late Monday.

    Amid mounting trade tensions between the two countries, five Canadian respondents each face a company-specific countervailing duty rate. Other Canadian lumber exporters will be subject to a weighted average of 19.88 per cent – a figure based on those five preliminary rates.

    Link available to subscribers only. I posted the full text above, though.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/industry-news/energy-and-resources/us-imposing-20-per-cent-tariff-on-canadian-softwood-lumber-exports/article34801700/

  145. “I don’t see what the difference is between having a suite and co-owning myself in terms of the effect on neighbourhoods and RE in general”

    If you own all parts of a house you can sell them together. Splitting the house into ownership parts means each part can sell at different times, perhaps partitioning the home long term and changing the demographic. I’ve been under the impression that we’re not talking about purpose built duplexes, those are fine. Next we’ll have co-owned homes with suites! Why pack 2 families into a SFH when you can pack in 4!? Think of the ROI! But where will everyone park their RV, boat, and 3 cars?

  146. Wow beautiful view Hawk! Mine is a view of a quiet road with about 5 cars per household on it! At least my backyard is nice…

    I overlook a gorgeous strip of delicately laid asphalt – the perimeter of which is adorned with rustling fruit trees, flowering bushes, and a nearby graveyard! Neighbours are always dead quiet, so that’s a plus too.

  147. Basement AG ? Your arrogance is clearly your forte. Off for a swim in my pool. Can’t stare at my view all day.

    Hawk I’m not sure I believe that you live in the Oak Bay Beach Hotel!

    I found a real picture of your view 🙂

  148. Wow beautiful view Hawk! Mine is a view of a quiet road with about 5 cars per household on it! At least my backyard is nice…

  149. Lovely view Hawk. It does look like the view from the fourth (?) floor at the Oak Bay Beach Hotel. Why are you always putting OB down?

    converting SFHs into duplexes or townhomes (with multiple owners, notowner & renter) is not the greatest idea in my opinion.

    Good, you don’t have to do it and you can afford a SFH so nothing for you to worry about.

    I don’t see what the difference is between having a suite and co-owning myself in terms of the effect on neighbourhoods and RE in general. The suite is far more common because co-ownership is not really a thing for many reasons, and I don’t expect it will be in our society. It is just something I would do and would create wealth and stability for more people likely if they did it too.

    And, fwiw, there are number of non-strata legal side by side duplexes that would be perfect for this imo and are much much cheaper than buying 1/2 of a strata duplex if shared between two. I personally really like 50s duplexes a lot.

    last year you canvassed opinion on whether you should sell one of your properties this spring. Just curious as to your plan

    You and LeoS gave good advice. We did something a little complicated – transferred it to a family corporation for FMV. Locked in exempt gains at the existing rate in a low income year, applied unused rrsp contributions, released retained equity from the corporation, got rid of the income tax liability on the principal pay down now that I am not working so I don’t need to add this to my income and pay more tax doing so, used the released funds to pay down another mortgage for the same reason and to invest, and accommodated the tenant who wanted to stay one more year. We will trigger the final sale next spring if the market is good for this.

    I disagreed with Leo years back about the work of being a landlord. I still think it is not much work, but I’ve become incredibly uninterested in doing things for financial reasons now and understand the appeal of having less to manage.

    VicRenter you are going to need to change your name!

  150. Should you feel victimized by a landlord….

    www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/residential-tenancies

  151. Basement AG ? Your arrogance is clearly your forte. Off for a swim in my pool. Can’t stare at my view all day. 😉

  152. Don’t worry Hawk – there’ll be a spot for you in Reeson Park when your landlord decides to renovate the basement suite 🙂

  153. “Renters like Hawk can be booted out of their house at any time for a renoviction or multiple other reasons. ”

    AG,
    Barring a fire, I have zero chance of that happening. Not every renter is created equal. Which goes to show again how little you know about the real world living in your Uplands bubble where you could be bankrupt overnight.

  154. Good points, Local Fool.

    We’re into our fourth or fifth year with the same tenant, on a month-to-month agreement. Couldn’t be happier.

    By the way, in that time, all I’ve had to replace was the original 70s dryer ($600) and replace the kitchen faucet ($100). So not a lot of money, thankfully, and not a lot of my time, either. It sure helps to have a suite that’s in good condition when you purchase the property.

    The separate heating will also save you from knowing what your tenant has for dinner every night.

    That smell coming from the suite … is the smell of money! (It applies to sounds, too!)

  155. Does anyone know how to soundproof a finished basement suite without tearing out all of the drywall/ceilings? Or is that just impossible?

    Separate heating systems is important. If you share the same ducted central heating there is quite a bit of sound travel along the ducts. The separate heating will also save you from knowing what your tenant has for dinner every night.

  156. Does anyone know how to soundproof a finished basement suite without tearing out all of the drywall/ceilings? Or is that just impossible?

    Hey congrats on getting your own place. Hope it works out for you.

    To answer your question, carpets instead of hardwood floors are helpful – that actually makes quite a bit of difference. The biggest difference though, is in using insulation where possible and floating ceilings. We have that in our place, and it’s pretty quiet. The former is really easy to do, and the most effective IMO of the two.

    Agree with Introvert though. There is no substitute for a quiet, respectful tenant(s). All the insulation in the world won’t help you if you have some jackalope that decides to do laundry, clang dishes, fight with their partner and slam cupboards at 2am. That won’t show up in a credit report – you just have to use your spidey sense when meeting them.

    Always make sure you do a pre-inspection report with your prospective tenant and lay out any additional rules you’d require from them aside from those provided in the RTA.

    When a tenancy works – it’s totally awesome. Easy and even fun, money for the LL. When it doesn’t work…it can be complete hell. And despite what many think, it’s very hard to get rid of a tenant, if they know the ropes and are intent on digging in their heels. That’s why the front-end scrutiny is so critical.

  157. @Introvert: I will definitely claim my suite income and so will look into Landlord BC. Thanks! I’m hopeful that I’ll know how to spot a good tenant. Not being in a rush will help, I’m sure.

    The big concern I have right now is the quality of the soundproofing between the main floor and the basement. It’s a 50s house that’s had some upgrades, but soundproofing wasn’t one of them. Does anyone know how to soundproof a finished basement suite without tearing out all of the drywall/ceilings? Or is that just impossible?

  158. Also, because we have a suite that we’re going to rent out shortly, I suspect that we’re going to lose at least a little bit of that feeling of improved quality of life.

    My unsolicited tip for you, VicRenter, would be to choose your tenant(s) extremely carefully. If you don’t need to rent out the space, then you can afford to really take your time. And with the vacancy rate so low, you’re in the driver’s seat.

    Having other people downstairs and in the yard will likely take away from our sense of independence/privacy, even though we’re now the ones in charge.

    One gets used to it. And a great tenant makes all the difference in terms of feeling OK about things.

    Best of luck!

    P.S. You may wish to become a member of Landlord BC. They provide you with tenancy applications, agreements, and resources to help you understand your rights and responsibilities. They also do credit checks for you on prospective tenants. And they will back you up with legal expertise should you require it. Membership costs about $150 a year, I think. You can write a portion of it off as a business expense (if you declare your suite income, of course).

  159. AG: I didn’t say anyone was “entitled” to a SFH. If they work hard they should be able to afford a modest SFH, as you have done. It should be the same opportunity that you had. I also didn’t intend to suggest that there was anything wrong with duplexes or townhomes, but rather that converting SFHs into duplexes or townhomes (with multiple owners, not owner & renter) is not the greatest idea in my opinion. On a large scale that could potentially strip your grandchildren of the opportunity that you had.

  160. totoro, last year you canvassed opinion on whether you should sell one of your properties this spring. Just curious as to your plan.

  161. As a new home owner I can attest to the nearly immediate sense of improved quality of life that I felt moving into my own SFH. I hadn’t realized just how stressful the last 2 years of wondering about rent increases/whether my rental would be sold had been. It feels good to have some stability. But along with it has come a mortgage that’s double what we paid in rent (admittedly we had a good deal on rent and we now have more than double the space) and the unknowns of potential repairs, etc. Also, because we have a suite that we’re going to rent out shortly, I suspect that we’re going to lose at least a little bit of that feeling of improved quality of life. Having other people downstairs and in the yard will likely take away from our sense of independence/privacy, even though we’re now the ones in charge. We don’t have to rent the suite out to survive, but not renting it when it’s there and ready to go feels like leaving money on the table. We may only rent it out for a year if it detracts too much from the positives of being homeowners. It should be interesting.

  162. Most would agree that a genuine SFH affords the highest quality of life.

    A 1 acre waterfront lot with a large mansion would provide a better quality of life. Is everyone entitled to one of those too?

    At least duplexes and townhouses give people the chance to own a property with a piece of land.

  163. I understand the point, AG. It’s actually my primary reason for home ownership. Sub-dividing for the sake of ownership however will eventually turn us into a city of duplexes and split lots, properties that the majority do not want to own if given the choice. Most would agree that a genuine SFH affords the highest quality of life.

  164. Totoro, that would essentially be a duplex or townhouse, not a SFH, and defeat the purpose. Sub-dividing and lowering quality of life is not the answer in my opinion. I don’t really understand why people willingly pay the same amount for less these days. Like the mini-can 6 pack of pop, for example, that costs almost as much as the regular 12 pack. That’s what we’re really doing to housing.

    I think the point is that you would living in your own house, rather than being a renter.

    Renters like Hawk can be booted out of their house at any time for a renoviction or multiple other reasons. Having living in rentals for many years myself, I can say that owning the property you live in (whether it’s a condo or a SFH) is a big step up in quality of life.

  165. Totoro, that would essentially be a duplex or townhouse, not a SFH, and defeat the purpose. Sub-dividing and lowering quality of life is not the answer in my opinion. I don’t really understand why people willingly pay the same amount for less these days. Like the mini-can 6 pack of pop, for example, that costs almost as much as the regular 12 pack. That’s what we’re really doing to housing.

  166. Hawk:

    I suspect that Satellite St. needs to slash a lot more off the price. personally, I think they would be lucky to 900k but I am often wrong. Old house, tiny lot, butting up to the hotel. No real ocean views. In my opinion it is still grossly overpriced but you cant blame them for trying.

  167. The variables are different now and the market has changed.

    Yes, I’ve been thinking on this quite a bit.

    I think it is okay, maybe preferable, not to buy and invest instead if you have cheap rent. The problem is that most rent here is not so cheap. Moving also starts to make more sense even if your salary will be lower.

    I’d still go all in today in Victoria and buy for area. I’d probably try to find another compatible family to do this with for a house that could be divided and buy it in fractions. Definitely not for everyone, but I believe it could work well with a lot of risk mitigation. VanCity offers these types of mortgages.

  168. I know it wasn’t. It was the misquoting that caused my jester suit to chaffe. But I’ve now had my coffee and life is good again, although I still don’t really like cats. Sorry.

    So, RE.

  169. “personally would go all in on RE and we did when we first bought”

    But you bought a while ago I presume. The variables are different now and the market has changed. I think people should realize there are multiple options out there and not that one is ‘best’ or ‘failsafe’ otherwise someone reading and taking advice (however foolish that may be from a blog) may find themselves in a world of hurt.

  170. No problem, honestly not an attack. Just one of the topics that is an interest for me. Tone is tough to convey.

  171. You say that trading isn’t a practical solution for many perhaps insinuating that it may be for some?

    It might well be for you. Dasmo and Hawk might agree too. I just don’t think it is for most, me included. History has taught me I’m no whiz with the market and I am happy with average as a result.

    What we would probably agree on however is that someone shouldn’t max out their mortgage (i.e. put all their money in a home). I’d consider that as irresponsible as you would consider putting all your money in self managed stocks.

    Oh, well, I personally would go all in on RE and we did when we first bought. I’m just a lot more confident of my understanding and skills in this realm . If we’d been in a different market we might not have.

  172. I’m actually kind of disappointed in looking at the construct of your rebuttal.

    This is not a personal attack. I just think you have the law not quite right. I think you may be mixing up the role of the courts and how common-law works with the constitutional division of powers. The common-law determines what the law ultimately is in practice, not the province.

    The proper quote is, that granting of beneficial interest still occurs at Her Majesty’s pleasure.
    And, this is correct. If the Crown requires the land, they can take it just as they can take your land.

    You may be misunderstanding the legal meaning of “pleasure of the Crown” in relation to Aboriginal title. This term was used in Delgamuukw and earlier cases by the BCSC to find that pre-constitution the province could decide to extinguish Aboriginal title. Delgamuukw was overturned by the BCCA and SCC on this exact point. The courts stated that there was no “pleasure of the Crown” discretion in relation to Aboriginal title lands, or Aboriginal rights for that matter.

    If you meant the Crown can negotiate, compensate and, where there is a compelling public purpose pay fair market value or provide a land exchange and take the lands without consent, this is not “pleasure of the Crown”. It is similar to fee simple expropriation with additional requirements in the form of negotiation and the need to attempt to get consent for a deal first.

    No. A court cannot grant any kind of title any more than you or I can. A court can make a determination as to whether a test proving Aboriginal Title has been met, within the bounds of the Constitution. The Crown then responds, whether that is the issuance of title, a change in legislation, an appeal, or a S33 override.

    This is incorrect on all points.

    In Tsilquot’in the court made a declaration of Aboriginal title. This is a legal grant of title, as defined on a map, with the associated rights set out in the case.

    The province cannot limit or legislate in ways that conflict with this legal grant of title. It is not up to the province to define it – in fact the court held the forest practices act did not apply because it conflicted with title rights. Provincial legislation can still apply where Tsilquot’in have not enacted their own laws and where the legislation does not impair title rights.

    There is no appeal. The SCC is the highest court and they have declared that the Tsilquot’in have Aboriginal title. There is nowhere left to go to get a different result – the province tried everything.

    There is no section 33 override either. The province cannot opt out as the Supreme Court has also noted that Aboriginal rights are not subject to section 33, as they fall outside the Charter as they flow from government fiduciary duties.

    The Crown ultimately remains unfettered, although it introduces some new checks and balances.

    Maybe this is terminology but unfettered means free from restraint and the Crown is about as impaired as it can get with this. In respect of both title lands and fee simple Crown discretion is definitely heavily fettered. You may mean that the Crown can still expropriate. In the case of title lands the expropriation right is much more difficult to exercise by the Crown given the need for consent where possible and right to consultation plus likely fair market compensation.

    This summary might be useful: http://www.mandellpinder.com/tsilhqotin-nation-v-british-columbia-2014-scc-44-case-summary/

  173. 15% foreign buyer tax voted on by Vic council. Correct me if I’m wrong but this will just further buying (potentially) in other areas such as OB and GH.

    That was just Victoria council expressing their opinion. The decision on the tax rests with the provincial government.

    Options for the provincial government include: (1) No change to the foreign buyer tax at all (stays only in Metro Van), (2) Expand the tax to include a good chunk of Greater Victoria, (3) Expand the tax province wide, (4) Expand the tax to only City of Victoria.

    The last two options are very unlikely IMO.

  174. While I may agree with the conclusion in the long term totoro, since when does anyone on here want to be ‘average’ or ‘median’? Statistcs are just that, they describe a median and not the range (i.e. half are above or below the median).

    You say that trading isn’t a practical solution for many perhaps insinuating that it may be for some? What we would probably agree on however is that someone shouldn’t max out their mortgage (i.e. put all their money in a home). I’d consider that as irresponsible as you would consider putting all your money in self managed stocks.

  175. 15% foreign buyer tax voted on by Vic council. Correct me if I’m wrong but this will just further buying (potentially) in other areas such as OB and GH.

    It might have been prudent to see how Van’s class action progress’s to avoid wasting tax payers $ fighting a class action. But not my municipality so I don’t really care until it affects mine…

  176. “what am I missing

    Saanich 6.4072 $624,581 $5,125

    624581/1000*6.4072 = $4001”

    Difference is user fees. I guess water and garbage????

  177. your argument also assumes that house prices and stock prices both go up. Either could go down.

    No I don’t. They probably will fall given the meteoric rise up of both.. short-term. Plan to stay invested and keep investing in stocks when they drop.

    You seem to forget that stocks are liquid and you can cash out at highs and buy at lows much more frequently, amplifying gains

    I don’t have the skill to pick individual stocks and the vast majority don’t either. This just would not work for me. The stats show that home appreciation has created the greatest amount of net worth overall over time. Stocks generally don’t use leverage and there is greater risk with chasing greater than the average returns through frequent trades – not to mention it increases your costs. I just don’t think this is a practical solution for many.

    I do think you should max your TFSA if possible and use the RSP if you can, but buying a primary residence in Victoria has been a better bet for net worth looking back at average and median gains. If you look at the stats maybe it won’t be so great for a while soon, but it should recover, just like the market.

  178. 2737 Satellite St. slashed $129K from original price. That’s the second slash in just under two months. With falling sales I expect to see many more slashes to come as fantasy meets reality.

  179. From a net worth generation perspective yes. But that money isn’t necessarily useful. You get utility of a residence for it. After that you get only more equity that does nothing but provide some security and brings a glint to your heirs’ eyes at the thought of you keeling over.

    does nothing but provide some security

    Isn’t that worth a lot? What if one of you becomes disabled? Your net worth is worth a whole lot in time freedom as well if you are willing to sell and downsize later in life. It is probably a ten years of your life difference.

    Essentially what you are saying here is that the costs of owning this particular big sfh are always going to be worth the lost opportunity cost of using that net worth in other ways later in life even if you no longer need all the space. If it is so important that you are willing to work longer maybe that is true. Wouldn’t be for me.

    If you are planning on staying where you are forever you would be one of the outliers – the average Canadian family does not.

    So for a true apples to apples comparison of investments you need to consider the 3% interest you will pay to actually access that equity via a HELOC to make it comparable to a stock market investment you can liquidate and spend.

    It really depends. The truth is there is no apples to apples as my apples are oranges compared to yours.

    We will sell part of it to our kids or continue to rent it out so it has and will have additional cash flow. Either way this will fund part of our cost of living without needing to move.

    I would say in your case you need to also add a $ value for the MIL living space, if not fair market rent than the childcare or other benefit you receive.

    And it is not just a HELOC you can use. You can refinance and invest the proceeds and the interest becomes tax deductible and the net becomes income. Your overall ROI will increase if you are successful in taking this step due to releveraging. Not my thing but it works for many.

  180. ‘It will end in tears’: A drop in housing prices would hurt the loonie, says currency analyst.

    One currency analyst says that a drop in housing prices will hurt the Canadian dollar.
    Adam Button, chief currency analyst at ForexLive, told BNN in an interview that there’s a clear link between the future of the loonie and home prices in Canada, particularly in hot markets like the Greater Toronto Area.

    “There will be losses,” he said, predicting a drop in home prices. “And I think the trade is on the Canadian dollar – the first trade anyway – because you don’t know where the losses are going to be. But they will be in Canada, and it will be brutal once it finally happens.”

    “The two things that are certain in a housing bubble: When it starts to bust, it’s denial,” he added. “There will be denial. And there’ll be denial in prices and in the market. And the other thing that is certain is that it will end in tears. And where the losses are, and the shape of it, and the timing of it, is extremely difficult to predict.”

    The Ontario government introduced 16 new housing measures last week in attempt to cool the GTA’s hot housing market. Toronto saw a 33 per-cent-increase in average homes prices last month, sparking concern among leaders in the province.

    “It’s just madness,” Button said of the soaring prices. “It’s at the Dutch tulip bulb phase here. And it will end.”

    http://www.bnn.ca/it-will-end-in-tears-a-drop-in-housing-prices-would-hurt-the-loonie-says-currency-analyst-1.732463#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=Facebook&_gsc=ibxHayd

  181. Victoria’s debt bomb is like every other Canadian city. Those who make the most of their wealthy “appearances” are the most likely to be drowning debt while they fake all their friends and family out that they are living the good life.

    Like my friend’s credit counselor buddy who said 70% of Victoria is in hock up to their eyeballs. AKA “The dirty little secret.”

    Drowning in debt is the new normal in Canada

    An expert in consumer insolvency describes what it’s like on the front lines of Canada’s worsening household debt crisis

    “The bloated debt loads of Canadian households has become a pervasive topic in media. But for all the attention the subject has received, it’s a safe bet that most people still cling to very clichéd notions that only so-called “deadbeats” ever hit the debt wall. Nothing could be further from the truth. The reality is Canadians would be shocked if they could peer into the private financial lives of many of their closest neighbours and friends.

    As a licensed insolvency trustee firm, our practice is on the front lines of Canada’s household debt binge and the bad personal finance habits that ensnare so many people. And what we see every day is that the majority of those grappling with serious debt trouble are the most typical individuals and families you could imagine.”

    http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/drowning-in-debt-is-the-new-normal-in-canada/

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